Anyone using a Wireless ISP?

[Matt Meiser]

We are nearing the end of our contract for Direcway and have started to look at alternatives. Its not that we are unhappy with Direcway, but in comparison to our previous cable modem at our old house, there is a lot that we miss. A local ISP is in the process of rolling out wireless access in our county and is currently working to put an antenna on top of a grain elevator about 4-1/2 miles from our house. They feel that if they put the antenna on our TV tower we will have no problem getting service. I haven't found anyone using this or a similar service and I'm wondering how well it works? I'm figuring it has to be cheaper and faster than Direcway.

There is almost no chance of us getting DSL or cable in the near future. The closest cable company is about 3 miles away and there aren't enough houses in the immediate area for them to justify coming into our township. Verizon doesn't even have a DSL capable switch in our exchange, and even if they did we are 6 miles from the CO on 50-60 year old cable.

[Joe Mioux]

Hi Matt
I have it at our house and I did have it at the shop (switched to DSL at the shop). The service works well. You have to have line of sight to the antenna or have a 900mhz receiver/antenna. Those antennas cost a lot more that the typical line of sight antenna.

If you can't get DSL, this is a good alternative. Check with your ISP and see if the upload and download speeds are the same and if he offers a static IP address. He will explain the importance of that.

[Matt Meiser]

You have to have line of sight to the antenna or have a 900mhz receiver/antenna.

Does "line of sight" include far-off trees? I noticed I could see the elevators from the corner, but can't tell standing near the house due to nearby single story buildings. I haven't been up on the roof to look from there, but I'm


Check with your ISP and see if the upload and download speeds are the same and if he offers a static IP address. He will explain the importance of that.

This is one of the things I miss with Direcway. I used to have a small web site, mostly for hosting pictures and such. I also need a public IP address (not necessarily static) to support VPN. Direcway charges an extra $30/mo for this service which I can't justify. The speed is also very slow for VPN.

[Brian Austin]

Direcway, being a satellite based system, is relatively slow, prone to latency problems (periods of even slower traffic), and a difficult system to work with for VPNs (primarily due to address translation and proxy issues).

Newer WISPs (Wireless ISPs) have pretty good equipment. I doubt they'll be working in the 900MHz range. It's more likely 2.4GHz, 5.xGHz (number of unlicensed ranges here) or a licensed frequency. Antenna and cable costs vary but I've done some connections for as little as $25, antenna and cable included (not wireless subscriber unit, though).

Newer equipment also has the ability to work NLOS (Near Line Of Sight). Microwave frequencies (basically anything over 1000MHz or 1GHz) generally require LOS due to the radio waves similarities to light vs the radio wave we're more familiar with. The newer equipment and antennas, however, have the ability to work with 'almost' LOS shots. A few distant trees probably won't have much of an effect.

I've set up a few WISPs in rural AZ. If you can get the system they're using, post it and I'll give you a rundown on what you can expect. If I don't know it, I've got friends that might.

[Jim Becker]

Brian knows his stuff on this! Fixed wireless isn't as common as it will become, but the technologies are getting pretty good. Some of the new standards coming along also promise really fast speeds, too. Whatever your potential new ISP is using, it is likely to be faster than the DirectWay and even able to allow you to use things like VPN which just doesn't work with satelite due to the high latency (delay) and jitter (varience in delay) that this method is encumbered by. There is no way to lower the latency beyond a certain point...the speed of light only travels so fast...although they are getting pretty good with keeping it constand with low jitter numbers.

[Matt Meiser]

I'm trying to get Direcway to change their motto to "Hey, its better than dialup!" which is true, but it looks like I will be getting a better option than I had a year ago.

[Brian Austin]

...Fixed wireless isn't as common as it will become, but the technologies are getting pretty good....
Actually, it's VERY prevalent out here in the wide open West. Out East (as we say), with trees, hilly terrain, etc., it's more difficult to push a signal. Here it's relatively easy. Sprint Broadband (who sold it recently, I think) has/had a unit on South Mountain...reaching as far out as 20+ miles with sector antennas (similar to the kind you see for cell towers). Straight line of sight, too!

Many rural communities are putting them in. I've got a former customer in a backwoods town (I even hesitate to call it that) who has a 256K fractional T-1 link to a Phoenix ISP and set up a WiFi hotpot on a tower...then controls access via MAC-based authentication. He's 16 years old, making an extra $1000+ a month with $2K worth of used equipment. Smart kid. He's reaching customers as far as four miles at 2Mbps (which is perfect for that environment).

[Jim Becker]

Recent court and legislative action here in PA after Philadelphia announced their city-wide wireless project pretty much kills any communities' chance of deploying their own wireless systems...a big win for Verizon who contested the plan. Philadelphia still gets to proceed, but folks in the 'boonies' are going to be without the choice of independent wireless.

[Brian Austin]

Recent court and legislative action here in PA after Philadelphia announced their city-wide wireless project pretty much kills any communities' chance of deploying their own wireless systems...a big win for Verizon who contested the plan. Philadelphia still gets to proceed, but folks in the 'boonies' are going to be without the choice of independent wireless.
That's going to be interesting how it eventually turns out. We have a lot of small towns in the state (and region, really) that are very remote. T-1's are in place to certain agencies like police or fire departments. I've worked with several county governments to set up wireless ISPs for their residents in those remote towns, using the existing circuits for those agencies. Last I knew, most were still in the planning phase and a few balked at the idea once I laid out support costs, server infrastructure requirements, etc., as a true ISP would have.

IIRC, they were classifying it as a utility and bundling it with something or including it as a service (like police, etc.).

[Joe Mioux]

Matt, Brian,

I emailed my ISP'r today and here is what he said about my service.

Joe,

You guys are on 900Mhz. I have it deployed in a few areas now, the reason
that 2.4 is more common is that 900Mhz equipment cost is 2 to 4 times that
of 2.4Ghz. So the ROI is much longer than with 2.4 and not many providers
are willing to accept a long ROI. Many are actually making money off of the
installs when using 2.4Ghz, charging $300 or more for an install when the
equipment only costs around $150 to $200. Most of the wireless providers are
making customers sign term contracts also locking them into 1 or 2 year
commitments indicating that this is to cover their equipment costs when they
have made it and more on the install alone. The costs of the 2.4Ghz keeps
dropping but the 900Mhz prices remain high due to it being "newer"
technology with only a few manufactures making it.

Thanks,
Chadd

[Brian Austin]

Matt, Brian,

I emailed my ISP'r today and here is what he said about my service.

Joe,

You guys are on 900Mhz. I have it deployed in a few areas now, the reason that 2.4 is more common is that 900Mhz equipment cost is 2 to 4 times that of 2.4Ghz. So the ROI is much longer than with 2.4 and not many providers are willing to accept a long ROI. Many are actually making money off of the installs when using 2.4Ghz, charging $300 or more for an install when the equipment only costs around $150 to $200. Most of the wireless providers are making customers sign term contracts also locking them into 1 or 2 year commitments indicating that this is to cover their equipment costs when they have made it and more on the install alone. The costs of the 2.4Ghz keeps dropping but the 900Mhz prices remain high due to it being "newer" technology with only a few manufactures making it.

Thanks,
Chadd
There is nothing wrong with existing 900MHz connections, other than potential speeds (generally in the 1-2Mbps range). Newer installs, though, are most likely going to be 2.4 or 5.x installations. If I were doing it, I'd go for the 5.x frequencies to avoid the home network installations that are usually 2.4GHz (802.11b/g).

And Chadd is forgetting about windshield time, tech time on site, and initial support on his startup estimates. With $100 leftover from equipment cost, it gets eaten up fast by a two hour installation of eqiupment at a customer's house...plus the guy calling tech support two days later because he can't play a 100Mb video on his 486 running Windows 95. :rolleyes:

Contracts are smart business, imho. With small rural installations, ROI periods can range from 18 to 36 months for a cheap installation. By that time, technology has changed and equipment is outdated, making replacement and expansion costs higher unless a forklift upgrade is paid for. It's a balancing act.

I'm not sure if it's still in effect but the Rural Telecommunications Act provided subsidies, grants and low-interest loans to ISPs providing services to pre-defined 'rural' areas. It helps alleviate startup costs considerably.

[Wm Bauserman]

I'm not sure if it's still in effect but the Rural Telecommunications Act provided subsidies, grants and low-interest loans to ISPs providing services to pre-defined 'rural' areas. It helps alleviate startup costs considerably.
A lot of companies may not be elligible for REA money and others don't like to be governed by the REA's requirements and rules on even some what trivial things like the amount of spares you have to purchase.