What do you know about the Crusades

[Jon McElwain]

The forum is called "Off Topic!"

So my question is, without looking it up, what are a few things you know about the Crusades. Also, what is your impression about these events, good or bad. Nobody will be graded on this!!

I am writing a paper for a history class and am hoping to get a feel for peoples general knowledge and feelings about this period in history. I appreciate your input and help on my paper!

[Neal Clayton]

so, do your homework for you?

ok, i'll bite....

the fall of rome coupled with the conversion to christianity of eastern/central european war-inclined people such as vikings left a significant void in the general order of eastern europe. and considering the eastern roman empire had fought with the persian empire for centuries, that presented both christian and muslim empires with opportunity.

the persians were presented with the opportunity for getting back at the former romans by conquering their way westward.
the christian romans were presented with the opportunity for putting their newly converted vikings and such to work by sending them to fight the persians.

couple that with the presence of highly lucrative points of trade in the middle east between asia and eastern europe/northern africa (it's always about the money!) and you have a situation that could only have ever resulted in wars.

[Jon McElwain]

Thanks for the bite! I had a resource that wanted to check against real people. It said that there is a popular view about the crusades that roughly coincides with the story as depicted in the movie Kingdom of Heaven. It depicted epic battle scenes, innocent Muslim victims, vengeful idiotic Christians, and a generally made up story about Jerusalem. Historical evidence doesn't really support any of this, but it is the commonly held understanding of the Crusades. I had the same impression myself, but as I got further and further into the research, I found less and less evidence to support the Kingdom of Heaven type depiction.

[Neal Clayton]

i don't think that movie was that far off, actually. if you pay more attention to the dialog and the characters, the general message was accurate, although it was overly dramatized at points, and the princes made to appear overly chivalrous. the characters in the movie are all historic figures, they did actually exist.

the christians found out that there was no promised land to be won in a crusade, there was just another war for them to fight. the muslim sultan was pressured into gaining israel back from the christians, but he knew there was no promised land for them there either, it was also just another war for his army.

the scenes at the end during jerusalem's surrender were pretty good, imo, and by most accounts, accurate...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICF7B2z99vY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6aPgA5549g



although saladin did require that ransom be paid for the release of captives taken, as was customary at the time, there are historical accounts of him eventually letting many go without ransom.

there is also historical record of saladin and richard I being close friends later in life, and exchanging gifts/communication/etc with each other, even while they were still fighting each other.

so the movie wasn't a complete fabrication, just a partial one...

[Kent A Bathurst]

The part I found fascinating was the 4th Crusade [1200 ??]- the only one I know about, due to a vacation in Instanbul. The crusade needed money to pull it off, so the merchant princes of Venice funded and equipped them, on the condition that they go to Byzantium/Constantinople/Istanbul, and topple the Eastern Orthodox Church and seat of the eastern Roman [Byzantine] Empire. The only time in history - up until the Ottomans mopped up in the 1450's - that the city had ever fallen. And it was christians fighting christians. IIRC, the crusade fizzled out after that, and never went on to their original goal, the "liberation" of Jersualem.


Tangent Alert: FWIW - Istanbul is an absolutely fascinating place, if you ever get a hankering to travel. The inflection point between Europe and Asia. Western Catholic, Eastern Catholic, Western Roman Empire, Eastern Roman Empire, Muslim, Ottomans, part of Greece, not part of Greece, and the famous Kemal Ataturk all operated here. The history, the architecture, the culture, the clash of cultures and religions - all unique. The famous Horses of St Mark's Basilica in Venice - they came from central Constantinople - right after - ahem - the 4th crusade - victors, spoils, all that stuff.

Sorry if some of my details are off a bit - the general thrust is correct - but didn't want to cheat on the quiz.

[Brian Kent]

A fascinating book - The Crusades Through Arab Eyes. I expected a book about the devastation of Arabs at the hands of aggressive Christians. It was very different than that. They went into very little detail about the European Christian's stories. They were just "The Francs", whether they were French Francs, English Francs, German Francs. or anything else. It was mainly about the historical leaders, tribes, alliances, and regional wars among the Arab tribes. No real details about the Europeans and intricate detail about the Arab tribal experiences.

[Jerome Hanby]

I just go ahead and preemptively delete my post and save the moderators some time and issue a blanket apology to all Catholics, Muslims, and people that believe in the Easter Bunny...