Need a jobsite table saw - 2 questions

[Brian W Evans]

I recently moved into a rented condo and had to sell my table saw and jointer (no room and no 220v power here). Eventually I will buy a J/P combo and a sliding TS. To tide me over, I've decided that I will buy a jobsite table saw, which I will keep for use on outdoor/construction projects until it dies. So, 2 questions:


Which one should I buy? I think my main considerations are power and a reasonably accurate and sturdy fence.

I was leaning toward the Bosch 4100, but have seen some pretty negative reviews among the many positives. There are also a couple of nice Bosch 4000 saws on CL near me right now. If I go Bosch, which one should I choose? I probably won't get the stand, so that's not a factor.


Thanks...

[John M Wilson]

I have the Bosch & love it.

I have read most of the reviews & find that the negative ones tend to fall into two camps: people with very little experience who find the setup instructions baffling for using complex terms like "kerf" :confused:, and folks who expect to get cabinet saw performance out of a portable saw.

I bought this knowing full well that it was not the ultimate for making furniture, but needed a saw I could put away, since my workshop is a 2 1/2 car garage (with 2 cars in it) when I am not wood working.

For what I need it to do, it is terrific. The soft start motor is nice, as is the riving knife & safety guards that work well enough that you can conveniently leave them on. I have found it to be plenty accurate & repeatable for my purposes.

I think it is the best saw in the portable class. If you don't need the portability (& the compromises that come with it) there are probably used "furniture grade" saws in the same price range.

Hope this helps...

[Neil Brooks]

Love my 4100.

It isn't a cabinet saw, for sure, but ... it's a great, great saw.

I put a Forrest WWII blade on it, an Incra 1000SE miter gauge, and the Bosch in/outfeed extensions.

And it works.

Every time.

[Brian W Evans]

Thanks, John. I am definitely limiting myself to a portable saw. Otherwise, CL will lead me far down the slippery slope...

[Van Huskey]

If you are going to buy a portable I don't know of anything better than the 4100. Best of breed period, until Festool builds one that costs $2,000... :)

[scott spencer]

The more that get sold, the more "fingerprints" they get on them. I wouldn't let a couple of isolated comments prevent you from making a purchase if the tool suits the need.

[hank dekeyser]

I have used many "portable" saws through the years. Overall they are all pretty comparable considering they havent been hammered into the ground from abuse. (the type I am referring to are the "tabletop" versions) My most recent one is a POS Ryobi I picked up super cheap at a pawn shop. It works, I wouldnt trust it for precise work, but then its not designed for it either. I mainly use it for rough rips, then clean up the edge w/ a handheld power planer. Stair treads, decking, trim work, whatever - It does what I need it to w/out having to lug a cabinet saw to the job-site. When I kill it, I'll find another one or go back to using the one I built when I was in model building (5-1/2" blade, 1/2hp motor, rips a 2x4 if I need it to) Overall I'd say that for occasional use o rsomething to "get you by" As long as the blade runs true and it has enough power, not much else matters. There are a lot of "nicer" ones available, but then you need to decide what you want to spend and how you'll use it, and what you expect it to do.

As far as a "sturdy and accurate fence" are concerned, a 2' level and a couple clamps work just fine. I remember Norm building a jobsite table w/ a decent fence a few years back (pretty much drop the saw into it ,clamp it down and go) looked like a pretty slick set-up. otherwise you can always build your own fence for any saw - My Uni-saw fence is a shop-built biesmeyer clone- cuts 52" right and 36" left - works like it needs to - perfect

Good luck in your decision, just be sure what you buy has decent bearings and isnt "used up"

[Albert T. Tappman]

I'm new here but went through the same decision process you're in now, about two months ago. The Bosch 4100 gets many editor's choice awards, and would have been my choice if not for its size and its price. If you live in a condo, space may be an important consideration. The Bosch is a large saw - just getting it home from the store requires a van or a truck. There were also several user reviews that mentioned the motor failing after a year or so, but I concluded these were probably instances of misuse. A couple reviewers mentioned that the riving knife is too thick for a thin-kerf blade, if that matters to you.

You might consider a Dewalt DW745, which is the saw I eventually bought. Its principal advantage is that it's very small and light, stores easily, and is cheaper than the Bosch. Since I have to pick it up and move it every time I use it, the ability to lift it up onto a shelf after use was important to me. I've used it for cutting wood flooring, and building various pieces of shop and outdoor furniture. The fence is adequate, but nothing special for sure. The riving knife is thin enough to accommodate a Freud thin-kerf blade. It needed no adjustments out of the box.

On the down side, it has a composite table, which is objectionable to some people but not to me. The miter slots are not T-slots, so a miter gauge or a jig on miter bars tends to tip backward until fully on the table. The motor is loud - about 100 db. Finally, the blade arbor is just barely long enough for a 3/8" wide dado set (two 1/8" cutters and one 1/8" chipper). Dewalt says not to use a stacked dado set at all. Because of the limited distance between the blade and the front of the table, crosscutting anything wider than about 6" requires a crosscut sled (that may be true of any portable saw).

If you have the space, the Bosch is definitely a superior saw.

[phil harold]

A table saw is only as good as its Fence
buy a Rousseau table saw stand, have had one for many years used with my makita portable TS
the Rousseau is sweet!

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I toyed with purchasing the Bosch. I played with one and really liked it. I also considered purchasing the Festool saw with their table and saw guide. Both have their advantages. In the end, I traded for a Ridgid table saw simply because the price was right (and the saw seems pretty good). Can you use a dado blade in the Bosch? Don't see why not, just asking.

[Neil Brooks]

Can you use a dado blade in the Bosch? Don't see why not, just asking.

Ayup.

Last week, I cut a fairly big series of (a hair over) 3/4"W x 3/8"D dadoes, with my 6" Dado King.

Worked ... just beautifully :)

[Julian Tracy]

The 4100 is a better choice than the 4000. I had the 4000 saw from the day it was available - used it for close to 8 years I'd say - great saw. I recently upgraded to the 4100 and it's very similar, but has some upgrades.

One problem I had with my 4000 is that the plastic saw body cracked and broke without any seeming reason. The 4100's base is much better supported and reenforced, so I think that is worth the upgrade right there.

The cord's strain relief is in a better spot as well, the 4000's cord exited the saw body at an angle opposite to how you wrap it causing a lot of wear at that point.

But the main reason is the killer guard and riving knife setup. I never used the 4000's guard, like most folks, but the new 4100 saw's guard is a great design and super simple to install and remove. And it has a true riving knife which always stays on the saw and is easily lowered for through cuts.

Half the negative stuff I've seen on the saw have to do with the fact that it has two fence scales - depending on whether you are using the table extended or not. Stupid complaint really, but there you go.

The other great benfit of both of the Bosch models is how simple it is to create a built in router table into the extended table design. I can't take credit for the idea - someone on the old Breaktime years ago did it, but I've used mine a lot and it's not a design that can be easily done with the Dewalt saws.

Here's some pics of my setup:
http://www.juliantracy.com/Bosch%20Tablesaw/

Oh - and the side and outfeed supports are invaluable.

JT

[Brian W Evans]

Went to Coastal Tool (http://www.coastaltool.com/) in West Hartford, CT today to check out the saws. Coastal has a huge selection - mostly geared toward contractors, but with a nice selection of clamps, router bits, saw blades, and some woodworking machinery. I have no affiliation with Coastal but I'm glad I live nearby.

The Bosch 4100 was impressive. The bigger Dewalt was also nice, but the Bosch fence seemed sturdier (no deflection/movement at all when I pushed on it). The Bosch fence also has a t-slot on 3 sides for adding sacrificial fences and jigs. The guard/riving knife/kickback prawls were exceptionally well designed and I felt like they wouldn't get in the way most of the time (i.e. I would actually use them).

I did notice two potential flaws, however: there is no way to lock in the blade height. You just adjust it by turning a wheel and then it stays there through friction or something. Second, to adjust the blade angle, you unlock the arbor so that it swings loose. Point it to the angle you want and lock it down again. When I tried to do this, I had a hard time keeping the blade angle where I wanted it while I locked it down. To be fair, though, this seems to be how many portable saws work.

I'm still strongly leaning toward the 4100 and will follow up with more info if/when I get one and have a chance to use it.

Thanks for all the input.

[John Sanford]

I guess my only question would be "Why not drink the green kool-aid?" It sounds like Festool may be an excellent (albeit more expensive) option for you. Not necessarily better, but a Festool setup should be able to do everything you've got in mind.

[Neil Brooks]

I've had zero issues with either blade height OR arbor angle.

I use a Wixey height gauge, where height is critical. Once set, it stays put -- whether running a tenoning jig over hard maple, or just cutting rabbets, with a dado stack.

Similarly, I stick the Wixey angle gauge on the blade, and can easily dial in the arbor to my target angle -- within a degree -- and see it stay steady, after I've made the cuts.

I think you raise valid concerns, but ... in my experience ... they haven't proved problematic.

[Brian W Evans]

I guess my only question would be "Why not drink the green kool-aid?" It sounds like Festool may be an excellent (albeit more expensive) option for you. Not necessarily better, but a Festool setup should be able to do everything you've got in mind.

John,

I thought long and hard about getting an MFT and track saw, but money is a factor since this is just an interim saw. To be honest, I'm also just comfortable with a table saw; it fits my workflow, I've got the jigs & blades for it, etc. Plus, I'm seriously afraid of what might happen if I ever started down the green path...

[frank shic]

i didn't like the fence on the bosch so i sold it on CL and bought a ridgid with the mobile stand. i also have the smaller portable dewalt table saw which has the rack and pinion fence which i absolutely love.

[Van Huskey]

I know you have made up your mind about the MFT and tracksaw and I UNDERSTAND personal economics! I did want to mention two things the MFT/TS55 are things you can keep even once you get a cabinet saw and a full shop. If you decide to sell them later you will get a bigger chunk or your money back compared to the 4100, in fact you may well be able to use them for two years and sell them with less money out of your pocket in the long run compared to buying and selling the used 4100. Just food for thought.