Delta BOSS trouble

[Dave McGeehan]

I have a Delta BOSS I bought about 6 years ago that I doubt I've used a total of one hour. I dug it out yesterday and when I turned it on it ran very slow, made a racket and the motor started smelling like it was burning. The entire mechanism moves smoothly when hand turning the spindle, no binds. Checked the oscillating gears: good. I removed the motor from the unit and removed the oscillating assembly. When I ran the motor under power with no gear load it still made noise yet its shaft turns very smooth and no noise turning it manually. I checked the capacitor and it has a small bulging crack in its side. My best guess is this capacitor is causing the odd rattling noise and burning condition within the motor. Anyone had this problem with their Delta BOSS?

[Sean Nagle]

I've had a BOSS for probably 10 years, but it doesn't get a great deal of use. I've never experienced the problem you're having. Most of the problems I've read about with the BOSS have to do with the plastic gears. If all the gearing looks OK, you're probably correct that it's the capacitor for the motor since it is having a difficult time getting the motor turning. I've never opened mine. Does it look like the capacitor can easily be replaced?

[Carl Babel]

From wikipedia (see last line):
Run capacitors are designed for continuous duty, and they are energized the entire time the motor is running.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_capacitor#cite_note-LAgov-0) Run capacitors are rated in a range of 3–70 microfarads (µF), with voltage classifications of 370 V or 440 V.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_capacitor#cite_note-LAgov-0) Single phase electric motors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_induction_motor) need a capacitor to energize a second-phase winding. If the wrong run capacitor is installed, the motor will not have an even magnetic field, and this will cause the rotor to hesitate at those spots that are uneven. This hesitation can cause the motor to become noisy, increase energy consumption, cause performance to drop, and cause the motor to overheat.

I wouldn't run this motor until you fix/get fixed that capacitor!

[shane lyall]

Never seen the insides of a boss but sounds like a start cap is bad. They charge on start up to help the motor spool up. Not sure without looking at a print but your motor may be running/starting under voltage and may fry if you keep using it. Again, not sure without looking.

[Dave McGeehan]

Thanks everybody. Carl, great info. I guess the only way I'll know if the motor is already damaged is to replace the run capacitor and see what happens.

[Jerry Solomon]

Dave - My BOSS is doing exactly the same thing. I didn't remove the motor as it looked like more of a job than I wanted at the time. Thinking it might require a new motor, I looked up the price of a replacement and decided that the machine wasn't worth that much ($$$). If it's only a capacitor, that shouldn't be so bad. I would be most interested in how you resolve your problem.

[Wayne A Hall]

I had about the same problem with the BOSS I have. One day it just wouldn't start. Made a humming noice. You might try plugging it in and spinning it by hand to see if it will come up to speed. Delta doesn't sell just the capacitor. They wanted to sell me a new motor for just about what the whole unit cost. I bought a replacement capacitor off Ebay and it has worked fine since. I can look up the specs of the capacitor if you need it.

[Julian Tracy]

I've got a Jet buffer that won't start up on it's own, but if you simply give it a spin, it runs perfect. When I researched it a bit, it seemed that most folks suggested that's fine and as long as you gave it a spin no issues for the motor. I just haven't wanted to take the darn thing apart.

A lot easier giving a 10" buffer a spin than a spindle sander though...

JT

[Dave McGeehan]

I've located the Delta 16uF 250V capacitor on several sites and all say "discontinued by the manufacturer." None on Ebay. Grizzly has that capacitor listed in the parts section for their GO538 OSS. I called them and they say the capacitor is no longer available. I called local motor repair shops and electrical supply stores: no luck. The only place I found was a site in China that has them but you must order a minimum of 1000. So if 999 of you guys with bad Delta BOSS want to go in on it, contact me and we'll place an order. On a more serious note, Delta wants more for the motor than I paid for the whole unit. If I can't find this capacitor, I'm going to be forced to buy a new OSS.

[Doug Colombo]

I have no experence or purchased anything from this site, but I did a Google search for the capacitor and found this company (in South Carolina per the web site):
http://www.tedss.com/D22A2516M21 I have no idea if this will work, but thought I would pass it on to you.

[Curt Harms]

This thread caught my attention because I have a BOSS which has been fine so far. I bought mine before Delta's travails which may have helped. Could your local motor guys help out with a replacement cap that's close enough to 16uF? I looked at McMaster's capacitor page and they say +/- 10% of the spec'd value which for 16uF isn't much. This is a START cap, right? McMaster has run caps of 15 & 20 uF.

[Kevin L. Pauba]

Might this work?

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=22-1205&catname=electric

[Dave McGeehan]

Thanks all for the help:

Curt-I think this one is a start capacitor. I need a run.

Kevin-that one's uF rating is 64-77 and it also is a start.

Doug-This sounds like the one. I called TEDSS and asked them to measure its dimensions to make sure it'll fit in the motor's side cover. He said he'll have that info for me early next week. When I find out, I'll post the info here.

[Curt Harms]

Here's the link to McMaster-Carr's page. The page has dimensions & prices:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#motor-capacitors/=b01qik

[Dave McGeehan]

Thanks Curt. The specs written on the side of my capacitor are: "16uF, 125WVAC". None of the choices on the McMaster page seem to fit that combination. Doing some resaerch on the net I'm pretty sure it's a run capacitor.

[Franklin Geiser]

I am experiencing the same problem with my sander, the capacitor is cracked and leaking, obviously bad.
The biggest issue is finding the right size to fit in that small area, and I haven't had any luck yet.
However, I found that Delta does sell a replacement capacitor for their model SA150 disc/belt sander which also has a 1/4hp motor - probably the exact same motor. The photo looks exactly the same as mine, so hopefully the dimensions are the same as well.
The capacitor for the SA150 is Delta p/n 1340645, I'm ordering one today for $20.56 at www.toolpartsdirect.com, but it should be available from anybody who sells Delta parts. Here's a few options (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=delta+1340645&um=1&hl=en&biw=1184&bih=814&bav=on.1,or.&ie=UTF-8&cid=14924039156459383029&ei=EgtcTdHQCoHpgAfJ78TBDA&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCwQ8wIwAA#)
I'll let you know whether or not this is a good fix, if so it should help a lot of people, as I've seen this problem quite a few places online while googling for a solution.

[Jerry Solomon]

I received a response from TEDSS.com today on their Item ID: 2020005635

They say it is 1-1/8" x 2-1/8". They sent a photo and it is a similar configuration to the old Delta part number. The MFD and voltage ratings are the same. It costs about $22.00 plus $14.10 S&H.

[Dave McGeehan]

Jerry-that's the one I called them about but they never got back to me. It sounds like the right one. Are you going to order it?

Franklin-let me know if that is the right one after you get it.

[james gerus]

Try newark.com they have your capacitor 16 uF 125wvac http://www.newark.com/cornell-dubilier/psu14515/capacitor-alum-elect-160uf-125v/dp/87F1264 Good Luck Jim

[Franklin Geiser]

Hmmm, this might take a while. Just checked up on my order and it's currently "On order from manufacturer".
I'll bug them and see if I can get an estimated ship date at least.

James - the link you posted is to a 160uF capacitor, not a 16. Additionally, it's 69mm tall while the OEM is closer to 50mm tall, and 1 7/16" diameter instead of 1.25" (how's that for mixing units?)
Newark does have a PS2125 that is a 21uF, which should be close enough, but the size will still make it difficult to install. Oh, and it looks like a minimum order of 47 pieces for the 21uF one. Just can't win, eh?

Looks like it's going to come down to the Delta that I have ordered, or the TEDSS product, which sounds like it would also be a good solution.

[hank dekeyser]

Seems odd that the motor shop you visited couldnt help you. All you need is the proper cap, it can be mounted anywhere. You may want to check the windings to ensure you didnt let the smoke out. before spending too much t&m on it ?

[Jerry Solomon]

Jerry-that's the one I called them about but they never got back to me. It sounds like the right one. Are you going to order it?

Franklin-let me know if that is the right one after you get it.

Dave - I may. It seems a little pricy with the extra $14 for S&H but it's a lot cheaper than ordering a new motor. I think I'll wait a little more to see if anyone discovers a better deal. I have a suspicion that Grizzley sells something exactly like the one we need. I just don't know which tool it's in and they typically don't give a physical description of the part.

[Dave McGeehan]

Franklin, don't be surprised if you are eventually told it is no longer available from the manufacturer. Here are two examples of that size capacitor when they are Delta related:
http://www.ereplacementparts.com/capacitor-16uf-250v-p-111483.html

http://www.ereplacementparts.com/capacitor-16uf-p-88567.html

So far this looks like the only one I can find: http://www.tedss.com/D22A2516M21

[Greg Peterson]

Try this:

http://www.mouser.com/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Aluminum-Electrolytic-Capacitors/Aluminum-Electrolytic-Capacitors-Leaded/_/N-75hqw/

[Dave McGeehan]

Thanks, Greg. I called Mouser and spoke to a tech. He was very helpful and checked every way possible for a capacitor somewhere in the range I need but no luck.

[Dave McGeehan]

I ordered this capacitor today. D22A2516M21: 16uF 250V Motor Run Capacitor (http://www.tedss.com/D22A2516M21)

After I install it I'll post the results.

[Richard Ballhagen]

This is my first post here. I found this thread because i recently bought a used BOSS that wound up having similar problems as the ones described here. i narrowed it down to the cap. and tore apart the machine. Sure enough the capacitor was ruptured in a few places. The machine sounded awful when I ran it, the motor got hot and the capacitor started smoking little after about 5 minutes of use.

I started the search to find a replacement, found all the places mentioned here and had no luck also. I took my capacitior out and took it a few local places and they told me it was start capacitor (black plastic casing), not a run capacitor. I know very little about this stuff so I trusted that.

I finally found a website that had what I thought was an acceptable replacement (16uf 250v).

Here it is:
http://www.surplussales.com/capacitors/motorstart.html

Cost was $13 plus shipping.

I just received it yesterday, installed it last night, got the sander back together and gave it a test run. Everything looks and sounds good so far.

The only problem I had was that it is slightly bigger than the original and would not fit well into the original cover. I went to my local recycling yard and rummaged through their pile of motors until I found a cover that would work size-wise. They just gave it to me. All I had to do was drill new holes (be careful not to drill into the stator) and tap.

Anyway, that's my experience. Glad I found this site too!

[Franklin Geiser]

Hmmm, this might take a while. Just checked up on my order and it's currently "On order from manufacturer".
I'll bug them and see if I can get an estimated ship date at least.


I received the capacitor today, it's not quite the same but I think it'll work.
It's 12uF instead of 16, measures the same diameter (30mm), and is quite a bit shorter (40mm instead of 52mm)
It came with a one hole steel mounting strap.
I think that 12uF is close enough that it ought to work, but I'll post up the results when I get it installed.

edit: Yup, it works. No problems at all, and since it's the same diameter it's a very easy install.

[Dave McGeehan]

I installed the capacitor last night and it's working fine. For me the main question is what caused the capacitor to go bad? Defective caps? Motor/cap mismatch? Cap ruined by motor problem? My guess is the caps were defective. I don't use an OSS often so it'll take awhile before I know how reliable this motor/cap combo is. Since the original only lasted about an hour of run time, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

[Greg Peterson]

Caps don't age gracefully. Especially if they go unused for long periods of time. Tube Guitar amps use big caps in the power supply and these can last decades if used regularly.

So if you bought a spare with the idea of swapping it when the other one wears out, that spare will actually degrade quicker than the one in service.

[Jerry Solomon]

Yesterday I finally got around to installing the capacitor that I bought from TEDSS. That seemed to solve the problem and the BOSS is up and running again.

[Jim Kondek]

I had a problem with my BOSS sander similar to what's been described in this thread. I took out the run capacitor and noticed the bottom had ruptured. An ohmmeter across the leads showed zero (not infinite) resistance, so I knew the capacitor went bad. I wasn't sure if this was the root cause or a consequence of the root cause, but I decided to replace the capacitor anyway. A Google search showed that TEDSS had a very similar capacitor. (The link ended up being the same link from earlier in this thread.) I went ahead and ordered from them. I installed it last week and so far so good.

When I researched this problem on the Internet I noticed several forums discussing problems with the BOSS' motor and capacitor. My guess is that the motor gets too hot because the ventilation isn't very good. There are vent openings directly under the sanding table, and 1/8" openings around most of the bottom of the base, but when I did a little smoke test I could hardly detect any air flow through the vents. It might not make much difference, but in the future I may try putting the sander on some 2xs to help get more air moving beneath it.

Thanks to everyone for their comments on this thread.

[Kevin Gregoire]

this question doesnt pertain to any capacitors but i figured since there are so many BOSS owners here you could answer something for me?

has anyone come up with a trick for loosening the top bolt holding the sanding drums or do i just have to keep flipping my sander over to
put the allen wrench in the bottom hole? why would any company make it so difficult to change out a drum?

there should be a rod or something to lock the spindle that comes in from the front or side?

any ideas on this?

[Jerry Solomon]

As I recall, I just hold the drum with one hand and loosen the retaining screw (left-hand threads??) with the other. I don't seem to need to tighten it up very much and can always loosen it this way. It never has come loose in operation. Hope this helps.

[Jim Laumann]

Kevin

New BOSS owner here, but I agree w/ Jerry S - just hold the spindle in your hand while you use the socket wrench. The threads are left handed.

Jim

[Mark Coates]

I am experiencing the same problem with my sander, the capacitor is cracked and leaking, obviously bad.
The biggest issue is finding the right size to fit in that small area, and I haven't had any luck yet.
However, I found that Delta does sell a replacement capacitor for their model SA150 disc/belt sander which also has a 1/4hp motor - probably the exact same motor. The photo looks exactly the same as mine, so hopefully the dimensions are the same as well.
The capacitor for the SA150 is Delta p/n 1340645, I'm ordering one today for $20.56 at www.toolpartsdirect.com (http://www.toolpartsdirect.com), but it should be available from anybody who sells Delta parts. Here's a few options (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=delta+1340645&um=1&hl=en&biw=1184&bih=814&bav=on.1,or.&ie=UTF-8&cid=14924039156459383029&ei=EgtcTdHQCoHpgAfJ78TBDA&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCwQ8wIwAA#)
I'll let you know whether or not this is a good fix, if so it should help a lot of people, as I've seen this problem quite a few places online while googling for a solution.


I just recived one I ordered from banggood CBB60 Washing Machine Capacitor 250V for $3.00 it is a little bigger but fits in the stock cover, so far it working great, I believe amazon also sells this item

[Clarence Miller]

This worked for me.
250VAC 16uF CBB60 Motor Run Capacitor 16 uF/MFD 250 VAC 250V AC 30x65mm UL Listed (25/70/21) https://a.co/d/6caHe74

[junyer green]

as long as its rated at 16mF, the rated voltage wont matter as long as its OVER your nominal voltage (120v etc) , 370 and 440 volt capacitors are easier to find usually - its an everyday item in HVAC work. If you have a multimeter that reads volts and amps, and are comfortable with live voltage, there are videos and a formula to check the capacitor while running to verify its bad. I have ran across numerous ones in my work that test good with a meter on the mF setting, but are actually bad when verified this way