Possible warning to those that have the Grizzly G0698 lathe

[dirk martin]

I took ownership of a Grizzly G0698 lathe a few months ago.
This lathe has a variable spindle speed control.
When I turned my lathe on, it ran at full speed, no matter what I did.
Obviously there was a problem with my speed dial.

I contacted Grizzly, and they put a new speed dial in the mail to me.
The following day, I heated up my garage, and went to work cutting some round bowl blanks on my band saw in anticipation of getting my new lathe fixed. As I took a break, I was looking at the lathe, and getting more and more frustrated by the minute. So, I walked over to the lathe, and opened up the front panel, in hopes of finding a lose wire. Everything was intact. But, for the heck of it, I took my screw driver and rapped on the back side of the speed dial...they way my dad used to fix things. To my amazement, when I turned it on, sure enough....it ran fine, and I could adjust the speed perfectly. I've seen others complain that this lathe runs "lumpy" under 100 RPM, but mine ran perfectly at any speed.

So, by smacking that speed dial, I did something to make it operate properly.

So, I turned some blanks with joy over the next couple of days. At the end of one day, I turned the speed dial down to zero to stop it, and removed my wood, and went to bed. The next morning, which was very cold, I walked out to my freezing garage to get my wood stove running, in order to enjoy another fun day of turning. But, when I went into the garage, I heard something running. When I looked over, the G0698 was running...at full speed! When I went to bed, I had left the lathe speed dial to zero, but had left the on/off switch to the on position.

I immediatly turned it off. I then fired up my wood stove, and had my breakfast while I waited for my garage to heat up. After it was warm, I went over to the lathe and turned it on. It powered up. Then I slowly turned the speed dial, and sure enough, it worked perfectly again. It continues to work fine, to this day, though I only turn it on, when it's warm in my shop.

Imagine if I would have left a large blank on that lathe, overnight, when I inadvertantly left the lathe on !!

So, I suspect this lathe has a problem with the speed dial...but only reveals itself in a cold environment. I know it's not uncommon for some turners to leave a blank mounted on their lathe, overnight. I strongly urge you to not do that with this lathe, unless you are SURE it is off....not just with the speed dial turned down to zero. I can easily see how this would slip past their QA department....afterall, I don't imagine Grizzly fully tests their hardware in cold rooms.

I eMailed Shiraz about this, as was basically blown off. He simply told me to contact their support dept. for a fix.

I think Grizzly has a potential law suit here, if someone gets injured. Don't let it be you. It's a great lathe, and I'm loving it. I just think it's important for you to be aware of this issue.

[Roger Chandler]

Hi Dirk,

I have had my G0698 for over a year. My unit stays in an outside, unheated shop building. I have not had a single issue of any sort with mine. I always turn my unit off with the power switch, and not just turn down the speed control knob. I always turn the speed dial to zero, before turning the power switch off. I think it is proper technique to turn a power switch off, and most likely it is the common sense procedure with any power tool, be it saw, sander, router, or a lathe.

Your particular unit may have some part that sticks in the cold...........I do not know, but as far as turning a unit completely off, I would think that would be an almost automatic technique for turning a power tool off and on.

Please know, this is not a criticism from me, and not a defense of Grizzly.........you may have indeed found something that is good for all us owners to watch for, and we appreciate you bringing it to our attention. Every time I have ever contacted Grizzly tech support, they have given me exemplary attention to my concern or to my quest for information.

I have turned on my G0698 in 10-15 degree temps, and in temps anywhere from 20 degrees to 90 degrees and above without any problem. I just give this information for perspective and hopefully to have other owners see how theirs performs as to cold temps.

Good luck and thanks for the heads up!

[Don Alexander]

is all this before or after the new parts ? because ...............

you don't say whether you first contacted customer service or just skipped that and emailed Shiraz........... however your post makes it sound like you went straight to Shiraz (while waiting for the parts to arrive)

its entirely reasonable for you to be expected to go through the established channel for getting issues resolved and the fact that you got a response
is evidence that rather than being "blown off" you were simply directed to the correct place to get assistance
besides, you indicated in your post that they had already shipped you the parts to fix your issue and you were using a work around until they came

maybe time to step back and take a deep breath or six

[dirk martin]

Roger, I don't take your reply as any sort of criticism.
I agree with everything you wrote....but just like Shiraz, I think you are missing my point.

You should be able to leave your lathe on, indefinately, with the speed dial at zero, and trust it won't spin up on its own.

And, if mine has this anomolly....so do others.

Roger, I'd like you to try leaving your lathe on, with the dial down to zero, overnight....of course, with nothing mounted....and see if it's spinning in the morning. I assume you are in a cold climate. I suspect, that in the morning, it will not be spinning on its own. I suspect it won't be spinning in the morning....but it's worthy of this simple test, just for knowledge sake.

[dirk martin]

Don...I'm not concerned here with getting my lathe fixed. That seems to be what you and Shiraz are focusing on.

I'm concerned about a HUGE safety issue with this lathe, that could lead to some serious injury, or fire. What might happen if a 50 pound bowl blank, loaded on this lathe, takes off at full speed overnight, and starts dancing around the shop? What might it knock over. I don't get it...why does this seem to be a huge concern, obvious to me only?

I pointed this issue out to Shiraz yesterday. Since he expressed no safety concern to me, I'm doing what I can to warn other users of this lathe.

BTW, I own a lot of Grizzly hardware, and am more than pleased with every single one of them.

[Roger Chandler]

Don...I'm not concerned here with getting my lathe fixed. That seems to be what you and Shiraz are focusing on.

I'm concerned about a HUGE safety issue with this lathe, that could lead to some serious injury, or fire. What might happen if a 50 pound bowl blank, loaded on this lathe, takes off at full speed overnight, and starts dancing around the shop? What might it knock over. I don't get it...why does this seem to be a huge concern, obvious to me only?

I pointed this issue out to Shiraz yesterday. Since he expressed no safety concern to me, I'm doing what I can to warn other users of this lathe.

BTW, I own a lot of Grizzly hardware, and am more than pleased with every single one of them.

Dirk,

You have a point about your "anomaly" I have never left mine on overnight, but I have had a couple of times, in the cold, no less, that I had to be called away from turning for a couple or so hours with a blank on the lathe, and only had the speed down to zero. No spinning on its own. In fact, one of the times I got a call, and had to leave to go to the hospital for an emergency situation at about 11:30 am, and did not get back to the turning until about 6:30 in the evening, and it was still at zero rpms. The phone call on that one got me in a hurry, and I forgot to hit the off button.

Anyway, so far, not one single issue, and this lathe of mine has been flawless in its performance. I hope it stays that way, and I realize all things mechanical and electronic can have a problem, so with proper technique and care of my equipment I am trying to do my part to take care of my woodworking equipment.

[Dennis Ford]

[QUOTE=dirk martin;>>>>>

You should be able to leave your lathe on, indefinately, with the speed dial at zero, and trust it won't spin up on its own.

<<<<[/QUOTE]

I have to disagree with this, a speed dial is not a safety device (even one not known to be faulty). Possibly the fact that the speed dial went all the way to zero contributed to a false sense of security.

[Fred Belknap]

I almost never turn my G0698 speed to zero. I have just to see if it will. When I need to stop I cut the power, although it is a little awkward with safety cover over the switch. I so far am pleased with the electronic on the lathe. Now I do have some other issues that I think need to be addressed by Grizzly. The odd size spindle and tool rest post come to mind. BTW I got a catch while working near the end of the tool rest and it broke like it was made of dried mud. Grizzly is going to send me a new one but they are back ordered and they didn't give me a time. Call back in a week or two is what she said. I ordered a new rest from Robust.
It is a nice lathe with some issues that could easily be corrected at the factory. They become major issues when the consumer has to deal with them.

[Roger Corder]

Dirk, I have the same lathe as you.

It worked right for a week then I was turning a bottle stopper one day and it went from 1200 rpm to full speed without me turning the speed dial. I turned the lathe off but when I turned it back on it blew the fuse in the inverter and I had to replace the inverter. so far I haven't had any more trouble.


it could be possible the it's inverter and not your speed dial.

Roger

[Roger Chandler]

Below is an email I got from Bill Crofutt, QC manager from Grizzly. Apparently there were less than a dozen units that had a circuit board problem, with boards supplied by Toshiba. Grizzly is taking care of these and doing all they can to correct any issues. They do stand behind their machines.


Hi Roger,

We are aware of a small percentage of electronics failing on our G0698 Wood Lathe. Presently we actually don't know why but nearly all seem to be circuit board failures. We are working with the circuit board supplier (Toshiba) to find a fast permanent solution. By all indications, there is a problem with the manufacturing of the circuit board as the vast majority of machines (yours for example) after several months of use are working trouble free. Those that fail have done so for the most part very soon after putting into service. Our Grizzly inspectors did not find a problem at the factory and when they arrived here, they again tested fine. Please be assured that we are working hard to correct the problem. I think this is one heck of a nice lathe and we have every intention of providing the highest level of support to our customers not only for the G0698 Lathe but all Grizzly products. No one likes to have products fail, but having failures is not necessarily an indication of a problem with Quality Control. In this case, we must rely on the engineering and manufacturing skills of the supplier of the electronics. Their problem has now become our problem too and we are both working towards a solution. However, I will say again the vast majority of these lathes are performing trouble free.

Thanks for your questions and I hope I have put your worries to rest.

Bill

Bill Crofutt
Quality Control Manager
Grizzly Industrial, Inc.

[Scott Hubl]

Roger, I don't take your reply as any sort of criticism.
I agree with everything you wrote....but just like Shiraz, I think you are missing my point.

You should be able to leave your lathe on, indefinately, with the speed dial at zero, and trust it won't spin up on its own.

And, if mine has this anomolly....so do others.

Roger, I'd like you to try leaving your lathe on, with the dial down to zero, overnight....of course, with nothing mounted....and see if it's spinning in the morning. I assume you are in a cold climate. I suspect, that in the morning, it will not be spinning on its own. I suspect it won't be spinning in the morning....but it's worthy of this simple test, just for knowledge sake.

NO WAY should you be able to leave your lathe "ON" indefinately. Just because you can dial it down to Zero does NOT mean you should EVER leave it ON.

IF a child or an unsuspecting Adult walked into your shop and turned that dial thinking it's OFF and it hurt them because you left it on, thats NOT good.

Get OUT of that habit right AWAY! and ALWAYS turn the lathe OFF, I wouldn't even be putting my hands on a lump of wood just with it dialed down to Zero unless I turned it off First. Imagine if Any lathe misfunctioned while you were inspecting a piece and twisted your fingers,hand, arm, that could do some major damage to you.

Once you get your lathe Fixed, please get out of that BAD habit right away!

Heck I Unplug my lathe whenever I walk out of the garage, All my woodworking machines are left Unplugged unless I am directly using it. It is a Good and Safe practice to get into.

[Scott Hubl]

I have to disagree with this, a speed dial is not a safety device (even one not known to be faulty). Possibly the fact that the speed dial went all the way to zero contributed to a false sense of security.

I Agree, I am glad my 3520B only slows down to about 46 RPM, ALWAYS shut a lathe OFF before walking away from it or inspecting your progress.

Better to be SAFE, than to be a statistic.

[Thom Sturgill]

You should be able to leave your lathe on, indefinately[sic], with the speed dial at zero, and trust it won't spin up on its own.


Absolutely NOT! As an electronics technician I know that essentially all electronics circuits are sensitive to temperature, resistors especially and it is a variable resistor that controls the speed. The off switch on many of these boards does not even cut power to the circuit - unplugging it is the only safe way to be sure that power is off and that the motor can not accidentally power up.

[Greg Bender]

I agree with Scott,I do not have a grizz lathe but I e-stop my jet everytime I need to do anything with the lathe. I really can't see any reason to leave it on and plugged in if it's not being used.I like Scott turn off everything including my battery charger rack and throw the disconnect to the shop area evry nite.The only thing with power is the 115 volt powered smoke detectors.Too much invested to take any chances.I live above the shop....
Greg

[Salvatore Buscemi]

+1 on turning your equipment off

Sal

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Dirk,

Take it from someone who has worked on some pretty sophisticated electronics since 1969, that speed control potentiometer was never designed to be used as an on/off switch. Further more, I would highly recommend unplugging your lathe when you aren't using it to prevent damge to the speed control by line voltage fluctuations or lightning strikes in the area.

Around 1973 at NAS Meridian, MS I saw what lightning running in on AC power lines can do to a precision approach radar used in air traffic control to land air craft in bad weather. It was impressive.

I have a PM3520B and I unplug it everytime I am finished turning.

Electronic circuits fail. I made a awfully good living working on MR and CT scanners and x-ray equipments that could cost up to $1,500,000 because electronics fail.

Use the switch not the pot. Unplug to be sure.

[dirk martin]

BTW I got a catch while working near the end of the tool rest and it broke like it was made of dried mud.

My tool rest broke exactly the same way, Fred.

[dirk martin]

Of course folks don't get into a HABIT of leaving their woodworking hardware on. That's just common sense.
My story, stemed from a MISTAKE, where I left it on over night. Similar to Mr. Chandlers mistake of leaving his on, while he rushed to an emergency. Nobody here is saying that they have a HABIT of leaving their hardware on.

It's also not smart to leave your car ideling in your driveway, unattended.
But if you did, I think EVERYONE would agree, that it should stay ideling, and not rev to full speed on its own.

[dirk martin]

Absolutely NOT! As an electronics technician I know that essentially all electronics circuits are sensitive to temperature, resistors especially and it is a variable resistor that controls the speed. The off switch on many of these boards does not even cut power to the circuit - unplugging it is the only safe way to be sure that power is off and that the motor can not accidentally power up.

If that's the case, then turning the machine OFF, and leaving it that way, is unsafe.
Sounds like most of us have some very unsafe shops. I'll bet very few of us (yes, I realize some of you do), but very few of us, leave our shops with every single device unplugged.

[dirk martin]

Dirk,

Take it from someone who has worked on some pretty sophisticated electronics since 1969, that speed control potentiometer was never designed to be used as an on/off switch. Further more, I would highly recommend unplugging your lathe when you aren't using it to prevent damge to the speed control by line voltage fluctuations or lightning strikes in the area.

Ken, you say to unplug my lathe....
Actually, are you recomending unplugging every single woodworking device in my shop, when I'm done using it for the day? How about when I'm done using it for each task?

I mean...seriously, folks.... Do some of you disconnect your battery terminals in your car, when you park it in your garage?
Are you suggesting that an on/off switch should read "on/off...usually." ?

I'm simply pointing out a potential issue with this lathe, that could injur someone.
If it is "best practice" to unplug your woodworking hardware from the wall, after each use, then it would read such, in your manuals. After all, the mfg stands to lose a lot, if their switches read "off", and it was not unusual for them to not remain so.

[Salvatore Buscemi]

If that's the case, then turning the machine OFF, and leaving it that way, is unsafe.
Sounds like most of us have some very unsafe shops. I'll bet very few of us (yes, I realize some of you do), but very few of us, leave our shops with every single device unplugged.

Yeah but, it's safer than leaving them on with only the speed turned to 0.

[Don Alexander]

Dirk;

i understand what you are saying and i refer back to my last comment that perhaps its time to step back and take a deep breath or 6

that is not criticism just some friendly advice and i'm glad nothing worse happened

[Cecil Walborn]

Personally I had problems with my G0698 when it came and I set it up it would run then shut down on me. I would shut it off and then it would not start for me. So called and they said they would call back in 24 hours 48 hours later I called them again, this time they said they would send me a new headstock. When I came I had to ship the old one back. Would I would be using the new one it would lost rpm's on me, it would go down 50% in rpm's. Again I was on the phone, again they would call back in 24 hours again I had to call back in 48 hours cause not one called. This time they have not heard of that happening. So they would repair it but they had no parts so had to wait for parts. I said I can not afford to wait, so we agreed to exchange for the G0632 lathe which so far is running great and without fault. My wife works in a warranty company and the Toshiba circuit boards are the ones that fail the most of all the boards used. So I am glad I do not have it any more. So I guess I got one of the few that was bad.

[dirk martin]

I fully agree.

[David Campbell]

Sound as though you have a problem with your software turning your SCR's on when it shouldn't. I have a Nova variable drive with a D.C. motor and experienced the same problem. I replaced the solid state electronic board and it resolved the issue.

[dirk martin]

Thanks Don.
I am not taking any of this as criticism. Often times it's hard to get emotion from the written word...but I'm really not taking any of this a criticism. I understand folks are simply trying to avert danger and injury. Much the same as the reason I started this thread.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Dirk,

On most AC variable speed controllers, even when you use the off switch certain circuits are still energized. So if you leave it plugged in and a power surge or sag occurs it can damage those circuits that are still energized.

That's why when you plug my PM3520B in, it takes a few seconds for capacitors in those circuits to charge and if you immediately turn it on after plugging it in, it won't spin the spindle. If you wait 3-5 seconds after plugging it in, then turn it on it works fine. That's also why my speed indicator indicates "0" rpms even after depressing the off switch. Certain circuits still have power. Leaving it plugged into the wall can allow it to be damaged by incoming power irregularities.

Most of the tools in my shop don't have electronic controlling them, thus I don't unplug my drill press or my SCMS....

However, since I have a RF remote control on my DC, I throw the breaker on it if I'm leaving town for a few days and I always unplug my lathe because those two are controlled by Electronics.

Speed control potentiometers are never meant to be used to shut equipment off UNLESS they have a switch designed into the pot. Using the speed control to turn it off is not using the pot for it's intended purpose. I don't believe manufacturers should be held responsible for a consumers misuse of a tool.

[Thom Sturgill]

If that's the case, then turning the machine OFF, and leaving it that way, is unsafe.
Sounds like most of us have some very unsafe shops. I'll bet very few of us (yes, I realize some of you do), but very few of us, leave our shops with every single device unplugged.
Turning it off and walking away is OK. I do that myself. The equipment is designed for that. That does NOT mean you are protected from surges wiping out the electronics which are still under power. Turning it off and doing something that would be hazardous if it accidentally started IS NOT, and I'll bet the manual DOES say that. Turning the reostat down and walking away is a total NO-NO IMHO.

Most modern electronics consume power when 'off'. They refer to that as 'vampiric', and many people ARE recommending that you unplug when not in use. And they mean everything. A bit extreme, but will save you money in electricity and repairs if you live in a lightning prone area.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Turning it off and walking away is OK. I do that myself. The equipment is designed for that. That does NOT mean you are protected from surges wiping out the electronics which are still under power. Turning it off and doing something that would be hazardous if it accidentally started IS NOT, and I'll bet the manual DOES say that. Turning the reostat down and walking away is a total NO-NO IMHO.

Most modern electronics consume power when 'off'. They refer to that as 'vampiric', and many people ARE recommending that you unplug when not in use. And they mean everything. A bit extreme, but will save you money in electricity and repairs if you live in a lightning prone area.

Agree whole heartedly Thom!

[dirk martin]

Dirk,

I don't believe manufacturers should be held responsible for a consumers misuse of a tool.

Good discussion.
Ken, are you saying that you feel the turning of a potentiometer to zero, and expecting the spindle to stay at zero RPM, is tool misuse?

Are you saying that if a lathe user leaves the lathe ON, and the speed control at zero, and then finds the lathe spinning at full speed in the morning...that he has misused the tool?

The user probably wasn't being wise, but did s/he "misuse" the lathe?

[Rich Aldrich]

My lathe is the one piece of equipment that I do unplug to protect the electronics from our power company. We have many surges, so this wouldnt happen.

Every time I do a set up, I hit the e-stop or unplug the lathe. On all of my other equipment, I unplug if it is 110V or shut the breaker off if it is 220V.

However, no piece of equipment should turn itself on.

[dirk martin]

I fully agree, also, Thom.
But this thread wasn't started, in order to find out how to "wisely" use this lathe.
It was meant to offer a warning of possible harm, if someone makes the simple mistake of leaving it on.

This is not machine abuse. It's simply a machine operating in a very unexpected manner. I think Grizzly agrees, or they wouldn't be offering to send replacement parts.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Dirk,

Dictionary.com defines misuse as Use (something) in the wrong way or for the wrong purpose.

If you operate a machine in a manner for which it wasn't designed to operate, it is misuse...and it isn't wise.... and it could be considered abuse...there is a distinct difference ......... if the electronics wasn't designed to be left on for extended periods of time, for example....and you accidentally left it on.....it could be considered abuse.

...and yes...manufacturers shouldn't be held responsible for misuse of tools by consumers.

However, Grizzly is sending parts because your machine, the pot or the circuit board the pot controls has a problem not because your arguments are sound.

Further more.......the same would be true of any of the speed controlled lathes.....made by Powermatic, Nova, Grizzly, Jet.......it really has nothing to do with your particular lathe.

I would recommend as Thom suggested using the On/Off switch to turn all your power tools off. Unplugging? Do what you will. Anything in my shop controlled by electronics will either be unplugged or the breaker thrown if I'm gone for an extended period of time. The rest of my tools I shut off using the appropriate on/off switch.

[dirk martin]

Well, my only comment in that regard is, when I ask Grizzly the following:
"Should I be able to leave my lathe on, indefinately, with the speed knob set to zero, and expect the spindle to not spin up, on its own?"

And they said "yes...setting that knob to zero, indeed means zero. That is how it should remain and operate."

So, I guess we simply have a difference in opinions. I agree that to do so is not wise. But I do not consider it abusive, and Grizzly does not consider it misuse.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Why do they put an On/Off switch on it Dirk? For looks?

[dirk martin]

Ken, why do they put a speed control knob on, that reads zero when turned all the way counter clockwise? For grins?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Dirk,

Page 18 of the manual says the stop button "turns the spindle rotation OFF". "Speed dial adjusts the speed from low to high within the range governed by the pulley belt position."

Good luck with your lathe Dirk.

[dirk martin]

I wonder why they call that button an "Emergency Stop Button", rather than just a Stop Button?
Perhaps the speed dial is indeed meant to be used to stop your turning, during work, when inspecting progress.
Stopping your work, for inspection, is certainly not an emergency.

But, I think we are being overly picky here in the details of how the manual was written.
Since the folks at Grizzly actually told me that it should not spin up, at any point on it's own, when the dial is set to zero....it seems to me that they agree with my argument that it shouldn't be spinning up, when the dial is set to zero FOR ANY REASON....regardless of how long it's left on.

I don't know...to me, that just seems so common sense. Again, I equate it to a car idling in my drive way. If it revs up on it's own, regardless of how long it's idling....it just ain't right!

Actually, reading page 18, makes it easy to imply that the speed dial is the expected way to stop your turning, and the On/Off switch is to be use for emergencies.
Kind of like the regular break in your car, vs the emergency brake.
Now, can you use an emergency brake in your car for normal stopping? Probably, but that's not it's intention. So my argument that the speed knob is the expected way to stop your turning, and hold it at zero is looking even better after reading page 18.

[John Coloccia]

I have to say, I'm kind of with Dirk on this one. When someone stops their Nova DVR, do they hit the power button every time or do they just tell it to stop? Do DVR owners have the reasonable expectation that when it's stopped, it won't take off running on it's own, even if it's stopped for an extended period of time?

It doesn't seem wise to use the knob as the primary shutdown mechanism as it can be easily bumped, but it seems perfectly reasonable to me that setting the knob to 0 should mean 0.

"Emergency Stop" is a very specific kind of button that has to meet certain requirements. It doesn't necessarily mean it should only be used for emergencies. For example, the ONLY stop on my bandsaw is the E-Stop. E-Stop's nice to have in that you can't accidentally bump the unit ON without having first released the E-Stop.

All that said, it blows my mind that there's only one lathe I know of with an available crash bar style stop, and that's the Vicmarc. Think about this: if you don't trust the electronics, what is your action plan if you're turning a 16" bowl, the electronics suddenly fail and launch the lathe to full speed. Surely you won't cross your body in front of the bowl to reach the so-called E-Stop, will you?

I think the bottom line is that you need to be able to have reasonable confidence that the electronics are in good working order, and beyond that there are start and stop buttons that also serve a purpose and should be used. If it's wired correctly, the e-stop should physically kill power to the relay that's supplying your motor.

And by the way, I do the same as you, Ken. My DC is wired with a fused switch on the relay. That switch is there for two reasons. When my remote fails (which it seems to do every couple of years!), I can bypass the remote and use the switch to turn the DC on and off until I can replace it. The second reason is when I'm away, I kill the switch so I don't come home to find my DC's been on all weekend :)

[Roger Chandler]

I think that the G0698 lathe is well designed, and the safety features on mine have worked like a charm. I have gotten 3 or 4 major catches, and the electronics are protected by a circuit breaker designed to stop the lathe, then a button is there to reset the inverter. This prevents damage to the electronics, and has worked well for me.

I think the particular unit that Dirk has may have a bit of a faulty speed control potentiometer. He should utilize the replacement that Grizzly is sending to take away any chance of it happening again.

All makes have their issues, especially the ones from China. Many motors have been replaced by Jet on the 16/42 evs. Some of the PM3520b's have had to have switches replaced, and some bearings have gone bad. Nova has had their share of problems as well. I just want to make sure that a proper perspective is had about this issue. From information I have gathered there were less than a dozen units that we know of that had a circuit board issue, and that is being addressed by Grizzly.

Everyone who has this lathe should use the off switch to turn the unit off, and not just the speed control knob. I have a regular procedure that I follow [unless I get an emergency call :eek:;)] and that is I always turn the speed to zero, then push the off button, to power down the lathe. When I start it up, I do the reverse of that........I push the on button, and a couple of seconds later or so, I turn the speed knob to where I want the rpm's to be.

My unit has not had a single issue after over a year, and I do my best to care for my lathe and all other equipment properly. I clean it regularly, and protect the ways from rust. I lubricate the banjo workings about every 6 months with a drop or two of light oil to keep it sliding easily in the groove that is machined into the underneath mechanism. I lubricate the quill about once every 6 months as well, and the lathe actually works better today than when it was new, because of the break in.

To date, I could not have asked for better performance than I have gotten. I think others will find out the same thing over time.

[Jake Helmboldt]

I think Dirk has made it clear that the intent of the thread was originally to address the fact that the lathe spun up to FULL speed unexpectedly. Others have said they have had similar problems, in at least one case while working. Imagine if that occurred with a large, unbalanced blank. The debate over best practices (shutting down) seems to have clouded the issue of electronics failures that are potentially dangerous.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

My last comment abut this.

The only safe way to shut this lathe off is to use the "emergency Off" switch. Regardless of what it's called or labeled it's described function is to stop spindle rotation.

Since the slowest advertised speed is 100 rpm, I'd suggest the speed control was never intended to be used to stop the lathe....wouldn't it say 0-1200rpm instead of 100-1200 rpm?


John....yes I use the on/off, big red Off button/switch on my PM3520B. Checking the manual for it, that is exactly what it tells you to do....and clearly using that doesn't remove the incoming power from the inverters so I disconnect the lathe when I leave the shop .

BTW...like you I shut off the breaker to my DC for the same reason and....I turn off my air compressor as I pass by it going out the door because I have an intermittant air leak somewhere and have found my compressor running.

And yes.....I reach for the big red button in an emergency too.

[Joe Scarfo]

If I was to walk in my shop now everytool is unplugged... except maybe my miter saw on my miter station. I do this for safety as I have kids... and for protection from lightning...

I once watched a friends unisaw magically start on it's own.. he was sitting on it and it scared the beejeebers out of both of us. From that moment... everything stays unplugged.

Switches and potentiometers can go bad... unplugging stuff just makes me feel more comfortable I guess.

Good Luck with your choices.



Good Luck..
Joe

[Jon Nuckles]

Dirk,

Your warning about a potentially dangerous situation is well-intentioned, and I'm sure it is frustrating that the thread has shifted to a discussion about how you should shut off your lathe. I had the G0698 for a while and two headstocks were defective (would not start most of the time) and Grizzly's customer service representative acknowledged to me that the problem was being experienced by more than a few people and that Grizzly did not yet know how to fix it. Grizzly's customer service was good and they gave me a full refund, so my only loss was the hassle of the deliveries and return and lots of time on the phone. In the meantime, I had fun using the lathe when I could get it to turn on.

The only thing I would like to add to this discussion is that the speed control on the G0698 is now advertised as having a low range of 100-1200 rpm because the lathe would not go lower than 100 rpm without stalling. Grizzly's original specs listed the lathe at 0-1200 on the low setting and people complained about the fact that it would not go that low and keep running. The fact that the specs now say 100-1200 is NOT an indication that the lathe won't stop completely when you turn the speed control to zero.

I unplug my lathe (now a 3520B) whenever I am finished using it, but I am not suggesting you should have to do that to be safe. I generally just turn the speed control to zero to check my progress and even to rechuck a piece. No problems so far, but your posting may make me rethink that habit. Thanks for your posting.

[Dan Hintz]

On a side note... I can think of several reasons for the system to go from 0 to max rpm without being directly commanded to do so (i.e., turning the knob). Some are "failures" in that they should each have been guarded against in a proper design, others are caused by broken components (e.g., traces) that should still have been guarded against in a proper design, but I can see why it would be cheaper not to do so based upon level of risk (i.e., cause 'X' would never happen in normal use, so don't worry about protecting against it).

[dirk martin]

Thanks for the reply, Jon.
It's interesting, that now that my lathe seems to be running fine (except for that one time start up overnight), my speed control will take it all the way down to zero RPM...very smoothly. I will say I am very pleased with the lathe, and like it a lot. I do always turn it off via the Emergency On/Off switch when I'm finished with it (assuming I remember), but based on what I've learned here, there's no reason to not unplug it also. That's such a minor inconvenience, compared to the potential savings.

My only gripe would be that there's no wheel outside of the head unit, to turn manually, to turn the spindle, or to hold the spindle still.
To thread on a face plate, I always need to find that long stick, that locks the spindle.

[dirk martin]

Oh, and by the way...
Shiraz eMailed me yesterday with this:

"You should immedietely stop using the machine until you have contacted our service dept. and a solution has been made.
Thank you for contacting me, but you do need to contact our tech. dept. right away."

I suspect he's seen this thread....

[Jon Nuckles]

Dirk,

I liked the performance of the G0698 a lot when it did start. It was smooth and powerful and a lot of lathe for the money. If Grizzly had been able to tell me when they would have a solution to the starting problem, I probably would have waited rather than returning the lathe. I love my Powermatic, of course, but I do miss the money in the bank!

[dirk martin]

Yes, I fully understand. I think it's a great lathe. If I had any points I'd knock, they would be:

1) The breaker fuse on the front panel does pop a little too often for me. It's a 2hp motor, and so I'm surprised how easily I pop that breaker when I get a catch.
2) I really hate not having a wheel attached to the spindle that I can hold the spindle still with, while I thread on a new blank with faceplate.

I've got some blanks in excess of 18", so I'm anxious to try some outboard turning, but I'll wait until I get a little more familar with over-the-bed turning on this lathe, first.

[Roger Chandler]

Yes, I fully understand. I think it's a great lathe. If I had any points I'd knock, they would be:

1) The breaker fuse on the front panel does pop a little too often for me. It's a 2hp motor, and so I'm surprised how easily I pop that breaker when I get a catch.

Dirk,

That breaker fuse will save your bacon! It is there to protect the electronics [especially the inverter] when you do get a catch. I am glad they included it, and it has kept me from damaging the lathe a few times when I have gotten a catch.

Sometimes, we just present a tool incorrectly, and that safety feature protects both the lathe and the turner as well. Lathes have been known to break someones arm or wrist,:eek::eek: so that stopping when significant catch happens is your friend! ;)

[Jeff Nicol]

What I see so far is that everyone offered great advise and "COMMON SENSE" answers to the situation. When one puts out information on any particular tool that they are having or have had an issue with there will be an abundance of replies and the original topic will become a web of additional information and reccomendations. Like anything new, old, borrowed or self built things will always go wrong at one time or another. The simple truth is that electronics are some of the most fickle and wonderful parts of equipment. That being said if the machine has a power switch it is to be used at all times when you are finished with the tool for a reasonable amount of time, or you are leaving the area or shop for the day. Ken makes the point that any and all tools that are connected to an electrical circuit are suceptible to fluctuations in power surges, lightning strikes and other out of the norm happenings. With most tools, like table saws, band saws, jointers etc. that do not have sensitive electronic controls will not be affected by these power surges or power drops, but a lightning strike is an unpredictable beast and can fry anything it finds a ground through even if the Power Switch is off. So with all of that being said, Dirk had an issue with a lathe and it was warranted to tell others of the situation of a potential hazardous outcome. The one thing that he stated that was wrong and dangerous on its own was: "One should be able to leave the lathe powerd on and turned to "ZERO" and expect the lathe to not start up". That statement would be all right if the Potentiometer had an internal switch and saftey circuit in line that breaks the circuit to the POT, if the POT is still in an energized circuit the circuit is still completed as a POT is a continuous wire wrapped to create a "Variable Resistance" to control the speed. So for whatever reason, be it the PC board, the POT itself or other part in the complete control box that fails the only way to be assured that there won't be an inadvertant start up is to push the stop button, which should take the chance of an inadvertant start out of the picture. But if the main power switch fails that should show itself and can be addressed, still no garauntees with electronics, and that is why unplugging it is the only true way to make sure it won't start without someone present to take care of the failure.

We are a bunch of very helpful and generous people here on SMC, but I want to say to Dirk that some of your replies to Ken and others was inappropriate and not needed, as all it did was antagonize and created tension. We all have to be respectful and learn together to do what is the safest solution, as safety is #1 when using woodworking equipment or all powered machines. So thank you for your thread as it will remind everyone who reads it that we should all use SAFETY as our guide in the shop and in our daily lives.

I get a little wordy, but some things have to be explained completely,

Jeff

[dirk martin]

Thanks for the reply, Jeff.
I was suprised to read that you felt I was rude to Ken, and antagonistic. I certainly did not mean to come off that way.
Will will admit that I though the conversation was going along just fine, until the short reply by ken when he said "what do you think that on/off switch is there for...for looks?".
I did feel that Ken could have left off that "for looks" part. And, as you saw, my reply was similar...as a reaction.
But, I've learned over the years, that it's never wise to try and "read into" email's, or online disucssions. It's very easy to assume someone is looking for a fight, when perhaps they wrote something indeed with their tongue in their cheek.

So, again, I do appologize for anything I wrote, that Ken or others felt was inappropriate.
You may be reading into this a little more than was meant, tho Jeff.
I know Ken is a big boy, and if he felt attacked by me, I think he would of called me out.

So, I'm going to lean towards this being a good, healthy, opinionated discussion, by adults.

I must say also, tho, that now you have me wondering what text of mine you are referring to! I wouldn't mind if you pointed that out to me...and if you'd rather point that out to me via a private message, that may be better, to keep this thread from really turning into something it wasn't meant to !

[dirk martin]

Oh...indeed I know, Roger. Indeed I know !
I just felt it tripped "a little too easy", but I certainly am glad it's there.

[dirk martin]

BTW, Grizzly called me Wed. and told me they want to send me another new inverter.
I asked the guy if there's been any redesign, from what I have now...and he said he didn't know.

Looking at the Grizzly parts breakout, those inverters are a cool $1,000 bucks.