A comptetitor to the Festool vacuums?

[Anthony Whitesell]

Is this a competitor to the Festool vacuums?

http://www.tooliday.com/dewalt-d27905-10-gallon-dust-extractor-vacuum

I've never paid much attention to the black and green tools. I just thought it looked similar and wanted to put it out there for opinions and options.

[Rod Sheridan]

Looks similar however the devil is in the details.

The low end Festool seems to have a 1 micron filter, the HEPA models 0.3 micron.

The DeWalt doesn't seem to indicate the filtration except to say that if you buy the optional HEPA filter you get 2 microns, which adds $130 to the price listed.

Seems to be the standard "you get what you pay for".

It might be a good vacuum, however at first glance it doesn't look like a competitor to Festool............Rod.

[Greg R Bradley]

This unit has been sold for years as a Porter Cable. Several years ago, it was in the same general price range as Fein, Bosch, Festool. It was a joke at that price.

HOWEVER, at $200 it is a very good vacuum for the price.

If you are thinking of buying a $150-200 Shop Vac, Rigid, etc. you will be happy with this. It is much quieter, has tool actuation, and variable suction to work correctly hooked up to a sander.

If you think it is a Fein, Bosch, Festool vac at less than half price, you won't be happy.

[george wilson]

I like my Fein vac. I leave the "bucket" shaped bag in the Fein,and also put a CleanStream filter onto the final exhaust. If you just use the very fine filter,it clogs up very readily.

[Alan Lightstone]

(snip...) and variable suction to work correctly hooked up to a sander.



How do you know how much to reduce the suction when hooked up to a sander? And why do you have to reduce suction when using a power sander?

[Tony Joyce]

Most Festool vacuums come with the anti-static hoses as standard, which are more expensive than regular hoses.

[Chris Rosenberger]

I have that same vacuum only it has the Porter Cable name. I also have the Festool vacuum. The PC vac is nice but the Festool is a much nicer vac.

[Chris Rosenberger]

How do you know how much to reduce the suction when hooked up to a sander? And why do you have to reduce suction when using a power sander?

Too much suction from the vacuum with suck the sander down to what you are sanding. It will cause more swirl marks & cause the sander to be difficult to move around or cause the sander to jump around as you try to move it.

[Peter Pedisich]

I purchased that vac recently, and I already own and have used a Festool CT22 for about 5 years.
The Festool is better in some ways, although at a significant savings the DeWalt (made in Italy, not China!!!!) is a terrific value.
The DeWalt has suction at least equal to my festool. It is barely louder, if at all, and is made of tougher plastic than the Festool.
The Festool has that GREAT feature - the flat top - never underestimate the importance of that.
The Festool has true HEPA filters, the DeWalt std version has 2 micron.
The Festool has a much, let me stress this, **MUCH** better hose.
The Power cord on the DeWalt is high quality and thick gauge, equal to the Festool.
You can get a HEPA filter and Fleece bags for the DeWalt, but it brings the price closer to the Festool/Fein.
The DeWalt says max ??? watts (can't remember) for the tool on a typ 15 amp circuit, which seemed low for a saw or router, but for me it worked flawlessly with a DW biscuit joiner hooked up.
The DeWalt vac runs much longer after the tool is shut down, at first I thought it was not working right. This can be helpful with larger chips.
The weight is similar, the front casters on the Festool are larger and the rears are equal.
The Festool has one major plus over the DeWalt; the handle + Boom Arm combo, some of the best money you'll ever spend with Festool.

I most definitely recommend the DeWalt to anyone looking for variable-suction dust extraction, and if the Festool is beyond your budget.

Pete

[Curt Harms]

I just changed the air filter on a 2001 Ford Ranger. The filter on the right is the HEPA filter for the DeWalt Vac $129. I wonder what the particle rating is on the Fram air filters? Of course the fact that they look alike doesn't mean the size or filtering efficiency is the same but still.........

[David Weaver]

I would imagine there aren't too many cars with hepa air filters, but I could be wrong. That guess is based on what would happen if you ran into a bunch of fines and the car had to try to suck a high volume of air through the filter after that.

Making the filter $129, however, is a joke. Maybe they do that because they picked a price on the base vac where they don't make much money, or maybe they just think people are dumb.

At $129, the markup looks to be similar to the HDMI cable markup. (last heavy 15 ft gold tip hdmi cable i got online was $7 shipped)

[Joe Leigh]

That thing spoken about in the same breath as a Festool???? Pahleeeeeese.....

[Larry Edgerton]

The vac was originally designed by Porter Cable to work with their drywall sander. It was a very tough unit, but I have no idea what Dewalt has done to screw it up.

I have had one of the original PC units for 15 years or so and use it hooked to tools in house. Has never failed me, and that is used for business. It must have stopped and started a million times by now.

Can't comment on the Festool, but I have a Fien and the PC is probably just as good, I just don't use it for the same purpose.

[David Hostetler]

Looks similar however the devil is in the details.

The low end Festool seems to have a 1 micron filter, the HEPA models 0.3 micron.

The DeWalt doesn't seem to indicate the filtration except to say that if you buy the optional HEPA filter you get 2 microns, which adds $130 to the price listed.

Seems to be the standard "you get what you pay for".

It might be a good vacuum, however at first glance it doesn't look like a competitor to Festool............Rod.

Which is a bit odd, isn't HEPA a standard rating of at least .3 microns?

[Peter Pedisich]

From the DeWalt site:

for the D27905: ($200 model)
Filter is rated at 2 microns @ 99% Efficiency

for the D27905H: ($550 model)
Quick Change HEPA Filter captures 99.97% of all particles greater than or equal to 0.3 microns

[Matt Winterowd]

I like my Fein vac. I leave the "bucket" shaped bag in the Fein,and also put a CleanStream filter onto the final exhaust. If you just use the very fine filter,it clogs up very readily.

George, I can't quite envision how you rigged that up. Could you post a picture or describe in more detail?

[John Nesmith]

Sorry to hijack this thread, but I have to ask. For those of you that have purchased a $300-$600 shop vac, I wonder why. Do you not have a central dust collection system? If you do, what sort of application requires the expensive shop vac? I've never understood the need for such an expensive shop vac, but obviously there is one.

[Alan Wright]

I'm really confused.... I'm willing to spend $200 on a vacuum, but not $500. I have several hand tools I'd like to use a vac like this on... things like my Domino, Dewalt ROS's, biscuit joiners, Rotex... etc. I have a nice dust collection system for my larger tools, but not for my smaller hand tools. The sanders create lots of dust and I could really use something. Do I REALLY need to spend $500. If I get the dewalt, will I be happy?? I've never used a Festool Vac, so I will have nothing to compare it to. I sell insurance for a living, so this is a part time hobby for me. A Hepa filter sound great, but the Dewalt says it capture 99% of dust. It just seems like an expensive Hepa filter to get the other 3/4 of 1% of dust is overkill. Am I nuts? Also, the hoses on the Festool are reportedy better, but antistatic?? I did't know I had a prtoblem with static? I read a post and tell myself I should get one. Then I read the next post and decide I shouldn't . I'm confused...

[Peter Pedisich]

John,

They are not really shop vacs, in fact as shop vacs (or should I say wet/dry shop vacs) they don't perform as well as $60 Ridgids! (OK, the larger Feins are great as shop vacs)
But as dust extractors hooked up to random orbit sander, routers, saws, and biscuit jouners, with variable speed to adjust for each tools need, they excel.
They are not meant to be a substitute for a central DC system any more than a central DC system is meant to be a substitute for them.
If you were to use a Festool or Fein for their intended use versus a sub $100 shop vac, it would be abundantly clear.

And the Festools were designed with job site work as a primary consideration, can't bring a central DC to a clients home, well you could, but the setup would cost as much as a van load of Festools!

Pete

[Peter Pedisich]

Alan,

I drive a Volkswagen with 104k miles and 115 horsepower, I WANT a F-150 turbodiesel and a Mustang 5.0, but I certainly don't need them to get to work!
I think the 2 micron filters on my new $200 DeWalt are going to be sufficient hooked up to my miter saw...the Festool may be better, but I didn't wish to spend $500 either, so I didn't. And 2 micron filtration is better than most dust collection standard setups.
Will the HEPA filters be better for me in the long term??? probably much better for ROS dust with finer grit paper, but hey, I used to paint steel boat hulls with a paint called red lead when I was young, without no HEPA filter!

Also, the antistatic helps keep the outside of the hose from collecting dust, only you can decide if it bothers you.

Pete

[Alan Schaffter]

Come on guys lets look at the specs!!!! NO ONE has discussed what really matters- CFM (to a much lesser degree) and static pressure (the important number for a shopvac) . Some will be concerned with the filter, is it HEPA? and some the noise -


Festool CT mini & midi= 99 CFM and 80" H20
Dewalt= 129 CFM and 83" H20
Festool CT 26E & 36E= 137 CFM and 96" H20

Please don't talk about DC's they don't belong in this discussion. They don't have the static pressure suction to work with small hoses- DC's are typically only capable of static pressure suction of around 9" - 12" H20!!! That is not enough to suck much of anything through a small, 1" - 2" hose. Also, why would you ever want to reduce the suction????? An ROS, by virtue of its pad action, will not stick to the work and if it is pulled down at all, that will improve the sanding action anyway.

I'll leave it up to you guys to put a value on the specs and reputation.

Oh, if it were me, I'd get the cheapest shopvac with 80" H2O or more of static pressure suction and add one of these to maintain higher suction longer:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/1404/thumbs/PB050004.JPG

[Peter Pedisich]

Oh, if it were me, I'd get the cheapest shopvac with 80" H2O or more of static pressure suction and add one of these to maintain higher suction longer:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/1404/thumbs/PB050004.JPG

Alan, the above is a very good suggestion to stay in budget or use an existing vac, and add one of these make it very convenient!
181750

[John Nesmith]

Thanks for the explanation Pete.

[Alan Wright]

Good insight Alan and Peter. I'm done procrastinating. I went ahead and ordered one. I'm working on a project where I'm getting to the sanding stage. I will be nice to get some of that dang sawdust out of the way.

[Anthony Whitesell]

Alan,

Which did you order?

[Alan Wright]

I ordered the Dewalt at $219 from Tool king. Used promo code 404 to get free shipping, (no tax) so it was $219 out the door. Of course, no Hepa Filter, but I like to live life on the edge.....

Alan

[Peter Pedisich]

Alan,

Keep checking Amazon and Tool king, I'm sure they'll put the HEPA filter + Fleece bags on sale in the future.

Pete

[Mike OMelia]

Do you all remember the Rainbow Vacuums? All the air passed through a water tank. I wonder if water would make a good "hepa" filter. Of course, this would make any such unit stationary.

Mike

[Greg Portland]

Looks similar however the devil is in the details.

The low end Festool seems to have a 1 micron filter, the HEPA models 0.3 micron.

The DeWalt doesn't seem to indicate the filtration except to say that if you buy the optional HEPA filter you get 2 microns, which adds $130 to the price listed.

Seems to be the standard "you get what you pay for".

It might be a good vacuum, however at first glance it doesn't look like a competitor to Festool............Rod.
It's even more complex then that. Sticking a HEPA filter in a system does NOT make the entire system HEPA-rated. Most vacs have HEPA rated filters but end up blowing dust all over the place.

[Sean Nagle]

Come on guys lets look at the specs!!!! NO ONE has discussed what really matters- CFM (to a much lesser degree) and static pressure (the important number for a shopvac) . Some will be concerned with the filter, is it HEPA? and some the noise -


Festool CT mini & midi= 99 CFM and 80" H20
Dewalt= 129 CFM and 83" H20
Festool CT 26E & 36E= 137 CFM and 96" H20

I'll leave it up to you guys to put a value on the specs and reputation.

Oh, if it were me, I'd get the cheapest shopvac with 80" H2O or more of static pressure suction and add one of these to maintain higher suction longer:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/1404/thumbs/PB050004.JPG

Alan, Nice central vac setup. I've done the same in my shop. I'm currently using a Fein Mini-Turbo with a Dust Deputy and my pipe system is 2" central vac pipe. The Mini-Turbo is rated for 116 CFM @ 90" water. I'd like to find something that has considerably more suction and some more volume. I was looking an Electrolux PU3450A which is rated for 125 CFM @ 140" water. However, the cost is about the same as the premium shop vacs like the Festool, so I'm still on the fence about upgrading.

[Greg Portland]

Also, why would you ever want to reduce the suction????? An ROS, by virtue of its pad action, will not stick to the work and if it is pulled down at all, that will improve the sanding action anyway.The suction causes the pad to "grab" which results in a wobble. The wobble results in an uneven sanding action. This does not mean that the pad "sticks" completely to the table, it just results in unwanted vibration. Slightly dialing back the suction does not reduce the dust collection for a small tool like a sander.

[Alan Schaffter]

Do you all remember the Rainbow Vacuums? All the air passed through a water tank. I wonder if water would make a good "hepa" filter. Of course, this would make any such unit stationary.

Mike

There was a big thread on this topic a few months ago. It won't work with a DC and as vacuum manufacturers found out, the disadvantages literally "outweigh" the advantages (this would be even more true for a shopvac.) Plus, in a vac configuration it probably won't filter to HEPA standards.

Instead of emptying a bin or pitching a dust bag, you have a heavy tank of nasty water to carry around, empty and clean. Unless you have an elaborate, multi-stage water "curtain" it won't stop dust entrapped in bubbles from passing through either- think about what happens when a smoker blows bubbles with a straw into a glass of water- when the bubbles burst at the surface, they contain smoke. The same will happen with dust.

[Alan Wright]

Hey guys, just and update. I got the Dewalt vac in the mail yesterday, I was dying to try it out, but my wife wanted to go to the Syracuse / West Virginia basketball game, so I was delayed (by the way, Syracuse won!!!). Anyway, when I got home at 10:00, I took 15 minutes to put it together and drag it down to the shop. I had a small table top glued up and ready to go. I plugged in my dewalt ROS first and did one side, then flipped it over and used my Festool 125 Rotex to do the other side. My biggest problem is that I've never used a Festool vac, or a Fein, so I don't have a ready point of Comparison.

However, i'm convinced that this isn't just another Shop Vac. It has a paper filter inside (like an upright vacuum cleaner, and then a cartridge (like a car air filter) on the exhaust port. I can't see this being used as a normal shop vac, because the bag would get filed up too quickly, and the hose diamater is much smaller than the standard shop vac. Anyway, I have several shop vacs, and a cental Vac (Oneida cyclone) system for that purpose. As a vacuum to be used with hand tools for WOOD DUST, it seems to do a fantastic job. I sanded for 20 minutes and did not see ANY dust in the air. I also ran my hand across the surface of the wood after I was done and there was virtually no dust on my hand. Again, I lack a point of reference, so I can't compare this vac to the $500 Festool. I am however, very glad I bought the $219 Dewalt and will be breathing a lot easier while sanding going forward.

Alan