Double bandsaw gloat

[Van Huskey]

Executive summery:

Got two bandsaws, Delta 28-350 and PM 141 net cost to me $65

Novel version:

This all started when I tried to by a VERY nice restored PM141 from a creeker. Carroll decided not to sell but he turned me on to a guy in the biz of buying and selling machines who was going out of business and had a couple of PM 141s for sale. I looked at his stuff and was more intrigued with a Mid-60s era Delta 28-250 he had with new bearings and tires. He was about 350 miles away but I was going to be within a few miles of him on business that weekend so I called him up and decided to drop by since I had to be there anyway. The Delta was in great mechanical condition but needed to visual rehab, a Sherwin Williams restoration if you will. He only wanted $475 for the saw but it was going to be a pain to come back and pick it up, he mentioned he got great freight rates so I said "call 'em up". Long story short I got it shipped to my door for $200 so $675 all in, not great but not bad. On my way back home I started to think about the PM141 he had with a fence on it (rare) and how Carroll mentioned he would like it, so I started hatching a plan, more on that later.

My grandfather in law is one of my closest friends, he runs a small business that among other things cleans and repairs apartments/trailer parts and rental homes between tenants but has recently branched out into commercial and industrial cleanup as well. He always inspects the property before letting his "crew" get started and picks up any tools etc that he or I might use. His "crew" is a couple of "scrappers" who work for almost nothing but make a good living off reselling/recycling things found in the cleanup so you gotta get stuff before they get there! Pop (my GF in-law) has a shop about 150 miles from our house and had a couple of things saved for me (a motor and some wood), I hadn't been able to get out there to see if I wanted it since it is 2 hours away but it was on way back from Houston (where the BS was) and so I stopped in to see. To my amazement the motor was a 15hp Baldor, brand new still strapped to a pallet and shrink wrapped... hmm I think this could be fun. I have a friend who owns a material handling company (many conveyors) so I called him up and got him excited, he will meet me there the next weekend. The wood was interesting also, ~250 board feet of excellent reclaimed sinker cypress, so a call to a friend who owns a cabinet shop made things even more interesting, he will meet me the next weekend also.

Fast forward to the next weekend and I am leaving Pop's shop with $1935 in my pocket and watching the wood and the motor be loaded and my conveyor friend owes me a single phase 2 hp motor for the Delta. So now we have the Delta paid for and still have $1265 in my pocket, woo hoo!

Over that week I had planned to return to Houston with my SUV and get the PM 141 with the fence (so I could get Carrol his fence). So now with a fist full of cash I am off to Houston again. After some dickering with the machine salesman again (I want this saw, that motor cover, this fence etc etc) I left him with a PM 141 Gumby w/fence for $525. Now off to Carroll's house outside Houston to trade the fence for seventy five George Washingtons (honestly if I didn't like Carroll so much I would still have the fence, because I have never even seen one in the wild before). Now returning home with $815 in my pocket minus $138 in fuel for the second trip (first was business) so I am home with 2 saws still up $677.

Now it is time to take stock in what I have to do to make these machines what I want.

First the Delta:

Mechanically, it is fine and he put a new Timber Wolf 3/8" blade on it, funny when I started to make the first cut at his shop I noticed the tick tick tick of a bad weld... go figure... :) I consider the guides and though they are usable Carter is having a 20% off + free shipping sale at the time so I figure why not. Just under $170 and I have new Carter guides on the way. The brake needs relining so $10 to Mcmaster Carr for the material to relign it about 5 times. It needs new handles for the trunnion bolts (original ones are $50) Mcmaster Carr has near perfect replacements for 25. $70 bucks for paint and paint removal supplies and she will be finished. So now I am down to being "up" $275. Well I thought I was done but a $45 1/4" Lenox bimetal blade, a OEM blade insert ($20) and a 5ft of Linkbelt I had @ $4 a ft now has me down to $190 up... :(

Now on to Gumby (the 141). I had found a guy with a couple of tires for it for $30 shipped. Carter full retrofit guides would be nice but I will never use them so a $45 deal on a Carter Stabilzer took care of the guide situation. $30 for paint and and $10 worth of 6200 series bearings and I am ready to go, almost. The worst thing about having two homes is you always have what you need at the other house (for me 700 miles away) so $20 more dollars for a cheap gear puller to get the stuck upper wheel off, oh yeah and 5 more feet of my link belt for another $20 down. So now I am $45 up. Tracked down a 3 pk of HPDE inserts to fit for $10 and Gumby has all his pieces ready to assemble.

So two weekends of running and two bandsaw projects later and I am still $35 to the good, a stop at Bass Pro Shops for a $100 gift certificate for Pop and I have the makings of two excellent bandsaws for some time and $65 out of my pocket, I guess it sorta beats the luxury of a few clicks at the Grizzly store and paying over $2 for similarly capable saws.

Pics and some info on the saws follow in the next couple of posts.

[Van Huskey]

First the Delta 28-350

It is a mid 60's era 20" welded steel bandsaw that weighs in about 650 pounds. Very solid saw all around and quite plentiful as they were the "lightweight" Delta saw sold to schools and cabinet shops. Large trunnions and a really big table (bigger than my MM20) which makes it an excellent contour cutting saw. They are equipped with a brake, some of them have been trashed but mine just needed relining. The brake and motor mount assemblies can be kinda "buzzy" but this can be fixed simply with some rubber grommets. Mine had a 3/4hp original motor (actually quite cool) but I will replace it with a 2hp motor, even though I am only going to use it for contour cutting I didn't want it to have motor envy. The guides are steel block with sealed thrust bearings, actually fine in a lot of ways but sorta a pain to adjust so I am replacing them with full Carter Guidall 500 series guides and have a Stabilizer to fit if I need it. These are solid saws and make a great restoration project even for the faint of heart, most everything is available but not really cheap if you go all NOS, but there are ways around 90% of that.

The saw had been in a school and had brush painted on more than one occasion, the original paint inside and on the spine of the saw was in remarkably good condition. I am not a one who feels a saw has to be restored to factory spec, plus I don't like Delta Gray. My plan is to strip the paint (no dip or media blast just an old fashioned angle grinder/wire wheel approach) and paint it, these pictures were taken after the process started. The remnants of the older Delta Art Deco look (in the door panels and the switch) along with the curved shape of the saw reminded me for some reason of a WWII bomber, so I plan to paint it Aluminum (thought of polishing it but there is a LOT of steel) and putting some bomber "nose art" on it.

One of the most interesting things about the saw is the Art Deco switch plate which has the OFF button shrouded not the on button. Those were the days... I will keep it because I love it, take that Steve Gass. :)

[Van Huskey]

Ooops, replied in the wrong place.

[Van Huskey]

Now for the Powermatic 141.

It is a 1971 "evergreen" racing stripe era Powermatic. This may be the best 14" bandsaw ever made especially if you value being built like a tank and interesting that it sold for right at $2000 just before it was discontinued. These saws are not as available as Delta 14" cast saws but they do show up a lot but command a decent premium over the Deltas.

The saw body is one monster casting which is very solid but prevents the use of a riser block so the height under guides is always about 6 1/8". The tracking and tensioning assembly (wheel hinge) are massive for a 14" saw and look more like they belong on an Asian 17-18" saw. The guide bar is a solid monolith of over 1" square steel, take that whimpy Delta. The guides are 3 bearing (6200) top and angled steel/bearing thrust on the bottom. The guides do a good job but the lowers are angled and a pain to adjust. The trunnions support is large and strong BUT the actual table trunnions are the weak point of this saw. They are bent steel but are adequate for the job. The motor on this one is a 3/4hp Leeson more than enough for anything I will use it for, it will live with a 1/8" blade.

My plan for this one cosmetically is factory spec, though I thought about the modern mustard and black scheme.

Both of these saws are excellent alternatives to what is available new and note they could have been made fully functional for much less than I am spending to trick them out. The Delta was ready to go at $475 all one needed to do was toss the Timber Wolf blade and get a good one.

[Mike Cruz]

Van, that 28-350 looks hauntingly familiar! The one I got a few weeks back looks EXACTLY like it. Except that it was painted (brushed) a god awful greenish grey, and the motor hole in the front of it was...ahem...archaically enlarged. UGLY!!!!!!! So, I too have some restoration to do. I called Delta and gave them my serial number. It was made in 1966. Call them, if you haven't already, and they'll let you know its birth year.

Great gloat. Congrats. Great horse swapping. Wish I had done so well...

[Van Huskey]

I called Delta and gave them my serial number. It was made in 1966.

You got me wondering so I checked the serial number to be exact, mine is also a '66. Serial #140-0964 so my rough guess is early 2nd quarter of '66 assuming steady production throughout the year. You have me curious, what is yours?

[Dave MacArthur]

Ahh this thread brings a tear to my eye, I'm so proud of you ;) Great tracking of a lead, great construction of a "deal", great saw, great story--

YOU SUCK! and well done!

[Carroll Courtney]

Vandy's game plan is to have 5 different BS setup w/different blades,I say he's got one heck of a start and after meeting Van for the first time the BS are in good hands.Lucky for me, Van drove out of his way to drop off this PM fence and I have been in search for one of these over at least 10yrs.Needless to say,this is a rare find and I feel like I won the wwing loto.I did not mount it on the 141,but on the 143.All I done was wire brush it,apply alittle rattle can primer then alittle Rustoleum Black.Vandy,thanks again for helping make my 143 complete----Carroll

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks for posting, Van. Love reading yr bandsaw insights.

[Joseph Tarantino]

nice looking saws. they both seem to have something of that art deco styling. i really like those older deltas. they look as though they bulit like tanks. and even though i'm no fan of powermatic, that 141, which obviously predates the brand's destruction by WMH, looks very solid and quite attractive. maybe somethings were built better way back when. much good luck with both. now on to the deal.

if i got this right, "pop" gave up a new 15 hp Baldor motor and 250 board feet of excellent reclaimed sinker cypress in exchange for a $100 bass pro shop gift certifcate? yes, i'd say you got a great deal. i take it pop's never heard of Craigs List?

[Mike Cruz]

My serial number is 123-3399. So, not sequential. I got my 3 hp motor mounted today...:)


You got me wondering so I checked the serial number to be exact, mine is also a '66. Serial #140-0964 so my rough guess is early 2nd quarter of '66 assuming steady production throughout the year. You have me curious, what is yours?

[Van Huskey]

nice looking saws. they both seem to have something of that art deco styling. i really like those older deltas. they look as though they bulit like tanks. and even though i'm no fan of powermatic, that 141, which obviously predates the brand's destruction by WMH, looks very solid and quite attractive. maybe somethings were built better way back when. much good luck with both. now on to the deal.



if i got this right, "pop" gave up a new 15 hp Baldor motor and 250 board feet of excellent reclaimed sinker cypress in exchange for a $100 bass pro shop gift certifcate? yes, i'd say you got a great deal. i take it pop's never heard of Craigs List?


First, you and I have differing opinions on the current state of Powermatic tools but as with all the old American full line brands they either adapted or died. Powermatic is my pick for the best "light duty" manufacturer during the American era. A handful of bearings and a couple of sets of tires and the a PM 141/143 will last multiple lifetimes.

Pop and I have what is best described as a father/son relationship. He got more enjoyment out of finding something I could "use" than he would have from the money he could have made on them, had it not been for me he probably wouldn't have bothered with it, leaving it to his "scrappers" to take as part of their "salary". And no, Pop has probably no clue what Craig's list is, it is kinda a funny thought of him behind a computer, plus he would probably kill (quite literally) some of the responders with their idiotic questions!

[Van Huskey]

My serial number is 123-3399. So, not sequential. I got my 3 hp motor mounted today...:)


Hmm my Delta serial number chart has that as a 1958 serial number... Strange, but I am not going to doubt the mothership, I will have to call them about mine now.

[Joseph Tarantino]

First, you and I have differing opinions on the current state of Powermatic tools but as with all the old American full line brands they either adapted or died. Powermatic is my pick for the best "light duty" manufacturer during the American era. A handful of bearings and a couple of sets of tires and the a PM 141/143 will last multiple lifetimes.

as i indicated, that PM looks like a very serviceable machine. and i did in my post, and do now, wish you much good luck with it. seeing something that appears to have been created by a company which had such a quality aesthetc during "the american era" makes what WMH has done to it, jet and wilton all the sadder.

[Mike Cruz]

Interesting. Mine looks EXACTLY like yours. Did they really make them EXACTLY the same from 58-66, or even longer? When I say exactly, I mean that even the doors have the same art deco look to them. Mine even has the same dust port, inconveniently protruding from under the table.

Now, for differences... Mine doesn't have the Delta emblem on the upper righthand front corner. But it does have holes where rivets, screws, or bolts once held something. Mine does not have that square hole in the side. Was that done "aftermarket" for dust collection? My serial number plate is located on the lower back side of the upper wheel casing. It reads Rockwell, not Delta. I have a feeling, if your's says Delta, that I was mislead, lied to, or fed a line. They are closed right now, so I won't be able to find anything else out until Monday.

[Mike Cruz]

Hmmmm. I just did some research and I would have to agree with you that it is a 1958 band saw. Can't wait til Monday to hear what the CS rep has to say. Like they give a hoot...

[Mike Cruz]

Van, look what jus popped up 1.5 hours from my house.

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/tls/2197506312.html

[hank dekeyser]

SAWEEEEET ! Wish I would have found something similar before I ended up w/ a refurb Delta 18". I searched long and hard, the only stuff I could find w/in 300 miles was "barn finds" that wer flippin' HUGE. I would of had to cut a hole in the ceiling. I'm OK w/ the newish Delta but still lurking for some "old arn" to compliment my green PM DP and mid 50's 8" jointer. Nice scores !!

[Matt Day]

Very nice scores! So how many bandsaws do you have now? Is this kind of like your version of multiplying routers?

[Tony Perrone]

very nice machines I love the look of the old iron.

[Van Huskey]

Interesting. Mine looks EXACTLY like yours. Did they really make them EXACTLY the same from 58-66, or even longer? When I say exactly, I mean that even the doors have the same art deco look to them. Mine even has the same dust port, inconveniently protruding from under the table.

Now, for differences... Mine doesn't have the Delta emblem on the upper righthand front corner. But it does have holes where rivets, screws, or bolts once held something. Mine does not have that square hole in the side. Was that done "aftermarket" for dust collection? My serial number plate is located on the lower back side of the upper wheel casing. It reads Rockwell, not Delta. I have a feeling, if your's says Delta, that I was mislead, lied to, or fed a line. They are closed right now, so I won't be able to find anything else out until Monday.

The 28-350 ALWAYS looked exactly the same from the 40's to the late 60's when they quit making it and went to the squared off Delta 28-3X0. Ours were both built during the years Rockwell owned Delta and my front door tag does say Delta in big letters with Rockwell under it in smaller letters. My serial number tag only says Rockwell (red and located where yours is) with the Pittsburgh address on it.

My square hole IS a modification where the school ran the dust collection though the saw cabinet, I was going to close it up but it is actually genius.

As I said I would tend to believe the mothership (Delta) over my papers, they should also be able to give you the month it was built in.

[Van Huskey]

Van, look what jus popped up 1.5 hours from my house.

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/tls/2197506312.html


Mike, you KNOW what you have to do... THAT is a gloat worthy deal!!!


PS, your reply above was on the second page so I didn't notice it until after I had responded.

[Van Huskey]

Very nice scores! So how many bandsaws do you have now? Is this kind of like your version of multiplying routers?


This makes 3 at each house, so I own 6 but not in one place. As Carroll alluded to in his post I want a total of 5 in my new shop mainly because I like them. There are some really interesting bandsaws built over the years.

[Mike Cruz]

Actually, by the info I found, 1958 seems right. So, I'll have to call them on that...literally.

[Mike Cruz]

I found out that a friend of mine emailed the guy selling the BS 1/2 hour before I saw the ad. He still hasn't gotten a response from the seller...BUT the ad is still up.

[Dave MacArthur]

Van,
I hate to say it, but I don't think you can just open and close the color conversation with silver! No indeed, you have developed too large a following interested in your victories, and now you face what all celebrities face: you have a DUTY to your constituency now! Across the country are countless neophyte CraigsListers, bargain hunters, novice scrappers and Flea Sailors, who all look to you for leadership and a Role Model. I myself have pursued several gloat-worthy deals now vicariously through your offices, and I must admit I feel I have some stake in your machine!

It should be clear we have a responsibility here, to help Van maximize his purchase through optimum creative coloring! I submit to you the following poll:
What Color or Design should Van Huskey paint his Delta 28-350 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?158961-What-Color-or-Design-should-Van-Huskey-paint-his-Delta-28-350-Refurb-Bandsaw)?

[Mike Cruz]

Van, I just found your 7th band saw...

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/tls/2205626933.html

Metal Working Equipment. 24” Commercial Lockformer Band Saw with 48” Custom Made Steel Table. 115, single phase, side outlet and light. The tough cast-iron body design will handle just about any cutting job. You can cut a 4' wide piece of material right down the center. It runs great. $1,500.00 Call Bob 240-286-7086 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 240-286-7086 end_of_the_skype_highlighting.



Location: Silver Spring
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
http://images.craigslist.org/3nc3od3la5O35V35T1b299f4769cd040a1dd4.jpg

[Van Huskey]

That IS eclectic! Would make a good dedicated circle cutting saw, but it does take up a lot of real estate!

[Mike Cruz]

Hey, call him up and work out a deal where he hold it for you til you come out this way... :)