How long to reach perfection in a form?

[Roger Chandler]

I have been thinking about the comments on the form, Osage Orange HF, [the little small flare at the foot, and the finial being a bit too thick.] That brought up a question I would like to pose for some of you more experienced turners.

How many forms did you do on average, of a certain style, before you felt like you hit perfection? I realize that all judgments are somewhat subjective, and we each are our own worst critics..........that being said, how many forms of a certain type under your belt, before you felt like you could not have done it any better? Example: HF, bowl or vase,etc.

[Gary Max]

Roger----- here's a answer. I have been turning for 35 years and I am still learning. Perfection doesn't happen with every piece.

[Jim Burr]

Something to think about Roger is that who decided what a perfect form is? Since most HF's are based on pottery shapes, I guess you could go that route. But I don't remember seeing a finial on Southwestern pottery. You could always swing to the Egyptian side, but a lot of those had lids. One of the most common HF short forms that is considered very southwestern has never been seen by any pottery maker.
I would worry more about skill aquisition than form perfection since it's all in what the individual happens to like rather than the masses.

[John Beaver]

I'm not sure the answer is possible. There are some turners who, I think, turn out consistently good forms, yet each one is slightly different. I have turned some bowls that I am extremely happy with, yet I will try to improve on those next time.
There are a lot of articles about "thirds" and "phi" and "curves" and they are all worth studying until you are comfortable with what you are trying to achieve. (Every rule is meant to be broken). This is definitely an art that needs to be practiced, and some get it faster then others.
Keep posting and asking for critiques, and learn to look at your own work with an eye for improvement.

[Prashun Patel]

I did about 3 bowls before I thought I could recognize a good form. Then I hit 10, and thought I was an idiot at 3, but had it at 10. Now I'm at 30, and know that while my eye knows what it likes more now, I'm further away from perfection than I ever knew at 3 or 10...

I think as yr skills improve, yr sights go higher. That is the whole beauty of this craft - flat, turned, or otherwise.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I have to agree that I don't think you ever hit perfection or at least I haven't been there yet. Some of my turnings I am quite happy with but but then I think to myself if I had did this or that it really would have been perfect.

[alex carey]

prashun said it perfectly.

[Tim Thiebaut]

I think what prashun said is about the way it is, and that goes for many things not just turning, the more we learn, and know, and understand about any given subject, we realize how much more there is to it and how limitless things really are...

[Richard Kennedy UK]

Beauty is in the eye....... and all that jazz! I have been turning for about 9 years and have made a lot of pieces but every time I make something that I think I am happy with I always find something I could do better or differently. Perfect form is too subjective a concept. On other forums (I'm only new here so I can't comment) there are some who "know" the perfect form when they see it but really they just know what they think is perfect, to someone else it could be different. Add in the fact that over time trends change so back in the 60's Marilyn Monroe was the shape to be but now its something half the size! By the time you have made enough pieces to think you have nailed the Perfect form its probably changed anyway!!!

I've looked through a few of the threads on here and for me there are some great pieces everyone will have an opinion -thats why we all post, some opinions will feel right others not. None are right. No-one knows perfect I say just enjoy the journey!

Happy making shavings!

Richard

[Fred Perreault]

I have used tools, operated machinery, gardened, and done innumerable other things, but I have never used the phrase...... "that's perfect". I have also never said "I'll do the dishes", or "...here, let me do the laundry".

I agree with Prashun

[David DeCristoforo]

My definition of perfection is that it is something to be strived for but never achieved. Anyone who feels that their work is perfect will never grow beyond that point.

[David E Keller]

I have to agree with Prashun. I've never turned anything perfect, and I never will. I have become happier with my forms in general, but I've found that my tastes have changed as I've seen and done more turning.

[John Keeton]

One can never achieve perfection, but rather the goal is constant improvement. For me, that brings the level of satisfaction I need. If I sought perfection, I would constantly be in a state of disappointment. I am a positive thinker - my glass is always better than half full. I would not do well with the burden of constant failure.

This is all a state of mind, I think. And, a positive state of mind permits one to go forward. A negative state of mind nearly always results in losing ground.

In each turning, I try to include some technique or element that is new - a new shape, and new curve - something to challenge me. I won't get it right everytime, but it will improve my skill level. That means the next piece I do will be better - either in execution or design. Were I to ever turn the "perfect piece" I would quit, sell the lathe, and never turn again for fear of producing something less than perfect!!!

[Roger Chandler]

There is not a response on this thread that does not have some excellent "perspectives." I think perspective is so crucial to judging a work like is done in wood turning. Everyone is different, every persons perspective [the way they see things] is unique, at least to some degree. Then compound the issue with rising skill levels and its correlating rising expectations of ones own work, then the perspective changes as far a what is considered excellence.

Having some others work to make a comparison to your own is indeed helpful, but that comparison is not all of itself determinative of excellence. I think I heard someone on this forum say something to the effect that "we may not know how to exactly define excellence [perfection] but we know a great piece of work when we see one." That may have been our good Dr. Keller, or Sean Hughto.......I am not certain, so please forgive a wrong attribution, if one was made.

I do know this.........my eye is drawn to certain curves and form, that may not interest anyone but myself, but if I do not measure up to someone else's ideal form, that does not mean for what I was intending to accomplish, that I did not achieve my goal.

Thank you all for your great ideas, and the chance to bounce a few thoughts off your brain, and see how it came back. Smart people on this forum, there are! :D;)

[Tony De Masi]

This isn't a true science so, perfection, if it exists, will never be achieved. Learn, grow, and be open to critiques. I've been married for 32 years now. I wouldn't DARE ask SWMBO if I've reached perfection yet.;)

[John Keeton]

I've been married for 32 years now. I wouldn't DARE ask SWMBO if I've reached perfection yet.;)Tony, you are a work in progress. If Ms. De Masi is not happy with what she sees, it isn't your fault!! She just needs to work harder at perfecting you!

[Roger Chandler]

Tony, you are a work in progress. If Ms. De Masi is not happy with what she sees, it isn't your fault!! She just needs to work harder at perfecting you!


John............:D:D:D:D:D:D !!!

[Timothy Juvenal]

I turned a perfect one once, but none of my customers ever picked it.

Other hand, some I was really disappointed in sold quickly.

Timothy

[Brian Brown]

How many forms did you do on average, of a certain style, before you felt like you hit perfection?




What's perfection???? :eek::D I am still working to achieve mediocrity. Perfection will have to wait awhile.

[Steve Mawson]

I think I have to agree with just about everyone. Thanks for bringing up an interesting question however one that is very difficult to answer.

[Steve Vaughan]

Worrying about perfection would drive me nuts, although there are some things that I probably drive others nuts about because of it! I've just done a few simple bowls for the most part and I try to take each one individually and do a good job with it. Having said that, I'll look at the finished product and may think of something that I'd want to try differently with a similar size or piece of wood. I'm thinking this is a great question too, but I'm not sure that any piece is gonna be perfect...there's always gonna be something you see differently about the piece...and it just might be more an issue of the turning being "perfect" but I just ain't telling anyone about the imperfections!

[Richard Madden]

Why heck...I've turned several perfect pieces...of firewood that is.

[Tony De Masi]

John, I'll be sure to tell her that. Then look for a new place to live.:eek:

[GLENN THOMAS]

I hope i never turn a perfect form, not that its likely to ever happen. I figure if I ever did turn a perfect form then what would I do next ? My goal is to turn something better than the last thing I turned, if I manage to do that I'm happy.

[Douglas Quetin]

What a great question to raise. It is like Prashun and John said. It is the doing and improving. Most interesting to me in this thread is that there are a lot of other people that feel as I. Turning is so solitary, personal, and primal that it is easy to think "it is just you". Nice to read all of these comments and think, "Yeah, that's what I feel, too."

[Lee Koepke]

and I'd like to add, that generally the creators opinion is markedly different than that of the recipient. The 'outsider' reaction I get to things I make is better than that I reap upon myself. Since I try to sell some of my work, I have to keep my self-critiques to myself alot of times, thats hard for me!

[Sean Hughto]

Well said. The good thing is that when you give folks the ones you're no longer satisfied with, they are as impressed by it and value it as you did back at 3 or 10.

[Bill Hensley]

I've never really thought about perfection in turning, too subjective. In turning my goal is the next "that's really nice!"