What to ask for when offered green logs

[Jon Nuckles]

Hi all,

Living in the middle of a big city, I have often viewed with envy the posts of those of you who cut your own trees for turning blanks. Today I talked to an arborist for a local tree service who said he'd be happy to supply me with some logs when he did a job. He asked me what I was looking for, both in terms of species and size. Surprised by my good fortune and being a bit of a newbie to the turning world, I didn't have an immediate answer other than that I wanted hardwoods and would take anything I could lift and fit in a small SUV.

Can anyone offer some guidance on what you would say in this situation? I have a PM3520B and an 18" bandsaw, but no chainsaw (yet ;)). I am primarily interested in faceplate turning. I like maple, cherry and walnut; have never turned boxelder but have admired the work of those of you who have; and would like to try apple (though I have heard it is prone to checking). The only hardwood I have seen people say is not good to turn is willow, but don't even know if that is a widely-held opinion. Since I am still working on my skills, I really do think I will take anything I can get to practice on, but if forced to be more specific, what should be on my wish list for trees in the upper midwest? As to size, I am limited by what I can lift and move, but how small would you go? I was thinking 8" diameter logs might still yield enough for small faceplate turnings, but really don't know how much you lose when you cut away the pith.

Thanks for any tips you can offer. This sure has brightened up a cloudy Chicago day, and I can't wait to be able to put to use all I have read here about green turning and drying.

[Nathan Hawkes]

I visited Chicago last summer, and saw LOTS of city trees and prunings in progress. You have an abundance of wood available if you know an arborist! I remember seeing thornless honey locust EVERYWHERE; this seems to be a pretty wood; I've only turned the southern (ridiculously covered in GIANT EVIL THORNS) variety. From what I understand they look rather similar. I also saw a few cherry trees, not many, also red mulberry, elm, and various trees that were unfamiliar to me. In addition, there seems to be an abundance of larger specimens of what we consider in VA to be an exotic invasive nuisance tree, the Ailanthus altissima, aka paradise tree. The bowls I've seen turned from larger ailanthus look similar to ash, with less grain definition. Still a good turning wood if its free. Some people like plain light colored woods very much. Maples are always a good bet; hard or soft, we have much more red maple in VA, which is very soft in comparison to sugar or norway maple.

As far as what to ask for, burls are an obvious suggestion, but asking for anything that can't be split into firewood with a splitting maul (i.e. crotches, and big, gnarly, think ugly) logs is sure to net you some spectacular woods. Just remind him that curly and quilted figured logs do NOT split easily. I split all my firewood by hand; I know!

Depending on what kind of bandsaw you have, you may have anywhere from 8-16" of resaw capacity. I'd stick to logs that you can easily process with it until you get a chainsaw, which should be SOON. If nothing else, a 16" electric chainsaw; don't buy a cheap one though; it is a solid investment.

Edit: another thing to mention; boxelder isn't a great turning wood either, and the distressed, wormy logs that yield the best reds aren't going to make him very good firewood.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Get a chainsaw and a metal detector! With city wood you just never know when you are going to run into a nail or something!

Nate's suggestion of an electric chainsaw may work well in your situation - depending on how close your neighbors are! Once you have a saw - then I would get as big as you can handle. You can always cut smaller blanks out of a big chunk of wood... kinda hard to do the reverse. Also, with smaller wood - remember that if you have an 8" log, split in half you have 2 blanks that are now around 7" in diameter because of the pith and after you turn, dry, finish turn - you have some fairly small turnings. Just something to keep in mind.

Also - with green wood - remember that you need to seal it ASAP or it will start checking on you!

[Jon Nuckles]

Nathan,

Thanks for the reply and advice. We do have a lot of the paradise tree and it is considered invasive here as well. The house across the alley from me took down a big one about a year ago, but I was only doing flat work then and didn't ask for any of it.

Jon

[Jon Nuckles]

Thanks Steve,

Good thought about the metal detector, and I have some sealer in hand and ready to apply. It sounds like I should expect to lose about an inch to the pith, or does it vary much depending on species? Would you suggest setting my minimum size a little higher? I have been looking for green wood for a while and setting any limits on what I'll take feels a bit like looking a gift horse in the mouth, but it sounds like he has plenty of bigger pieces if I can lift them.

I think he is willing to cut them to 2' lengths for me, so I wonder if I can cut them up with a log sled on the bandsaw, but I am always open to new reasons to buy tools (and boy has turning offered me that!). As for the chainsaw noise, my shop is in an old industrial building filled with a couple of woodshops and a lot of young artists, so the sound of a chainsaw would provide a nice harmony to the some of the "music" there. I have ear protection, but I may need to get some for my dog before firing it up. I'll check out the threads I've seen in the past on chainsaws people like.

[John Beaver]

I always ask for the logs to be cut about 2-4" longer then the diameter of the tree.
Unless you can only manage a specific size, the extra inches accommodate some checking on the ends and leaves you with the largest size the diameter will allow.
I'd always rather have a larger log to work with so I can play with the positioning of the wood.

[Curt Fuller]

I usually try to get as much of the crotch wood as possible whenever someone offers free wood. And of course, if there are any burls, those are a premium. If you can stretch your luck and get the arborist to saw the crotches down the middle, I think that's where the prettiest wood lies. The burls you would probably want to cut yourself. And as John B said, the longer trunk sections will check less. And I second Steve's suggestion on the metal detector.

[Richard Madden]

Some good advice here. I would suggest asking for much larger than 8", and as John B. said, the length should be cut at least 4" greater than the diameter.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Lots of good advice and I agree with Richard on having the logs cut at least 4" longer than the diameter. If it does crack you have some room to cut to good wood.

[Jon Nuckles]

Thanks to everyone for the advice. Can't wait to get my hands on some free green wood and see the ribbons of shavings streaming from my Thompson 5/8" v gouge! They do stream some from the kiln dried stuff I have been turning, but I tend to see the shavings as streams of dollar bills flying toward the floor. Less money for wood means more money for tools!

[Kathy Marshall]

My tree trimmer will save anything from about 5" diameter and up (the smaller logs are great for endgrain boxes and hollow forms). The bigger logs are usually about 2' long and the smaller ones about the same or longer. I've never asked them to cut them to size for me since I have a chain saw and I'm just happy that they're willing to call me and set aside some wood whenever they have it.
I usually take as much as I can haul, even if it means going back for multiple loads (one sumac tree resulted in 3 pickup loads). I seal the logs when I get home, some I may cut into blanks right away, but I always leave some "raw". I have several turners in my area that I give wood too and/or trade with. I've also given or traded with turners from out of state that might be in town for a visit or have relatives here that will be visiting them and some trades I've done by mail. I also belong to a club and donate wood to the club for the raffle we have at each meeting.

The idea being to take as much as you can store, even if you don't think you'll use it all, you may be able to trade some of the woods commonly found in your area for nice stuff that you can't get locally.
And go ahead and take the plunge for a chain saw, there are ways to get around having to use one but it really is nice to not be limited to your bandsaws capability and opens you up to the biggest logs you can turn.

[Reed Gray]

You will soon find that you need a chainsaw, and/or a big bandsaw (as in one that cuts 16 inches high). That being said, most of the maples (including sycamore/plane, and box elder) are nice, I will take all of the fruit woods I can get (cherry, apple, plum, pear, etc.). Also, the nut trees, black walnut, English walnut especially if it has been grafted onto black walnut, butter nut, pecan/hickory. I had some Tree of Heaven, or paradise tree once, rather plain and very open pours as in you could see the holes. Locust is nice. The hybrid Moraine Locust (honey locust without the thorns) is beautiful. Red bud is rather stringy, but I like the color. No telling what you will find. As to the metal, back yard trees, and farm yard trees have lots of metal in them, park way trees aren't too bad though. You will have more wood than you need.

robo hippy

[Fred Perreault]

John, when you decide to reach out to the many available sources of free wood, you will soon find that there is more wood than you have time to gather; vehicles to carry; tools to process; room to store; time to turn. The balance beam scales have free wood on one side, and tool$, $aws, $andpaper, acce$$orie$ on the other.

I have many sources of local or not so local (5 hour trip), free wood. However, the "free" doesn't include the saws, the time, the vehicle or the turned items given as a swap sometimes. But in the end, there's a certain feeling when one creates from a wooden block that has provenance. I love it :) :) :)

[Carol Kinney]

Hello Jon,
I just went through all this but I go around the neighborhoods in my area to find it. I'm lucky in that our garbage company picks up anything and everything. Because of that people cut down trees and just lay the logs out for them to pick them up . . . unless I get there first. I also have friends that will tell me when one of their neighbors have logs out - that helps a lot.

About the chain saw - I didn't have one at first so I used my bandsaw to do all the cutting. That didn't last long as I ended up almost cutting my finger off. So after the ER visit and 10 stitches (on the outside) we went straight to the big box store and purchase an electric chain saw. I purchased the largest one I could find which was 16 inches . . . it didn't last long as I was for the most part using it every day. I had a two year warranty so was able to take it back and get a real chain saw that is 18 inches and gas. It has been great and cuts through huge logs without any trouble at all. Above that it didn't cost that much more than the electric but it's cuts much faster. I thought the electric would do fine with the smaller logs (which it did) but then I started getting 12+ inch logs which would take me forever to cut through with the electric chain saw. Just a little heads up with the electric vs gas chainsaws – I also found out that they aren’t that hard to start which was the only reason I purchased the electric in the first place. Normally 3 pulls and it’s cutting.

Good luck in getting some nice wood.

Carol

[Jon Nuckles]

Thanks again for the advice, everyone. Maybe I need to buy "Identifying Wood" while Taunton Press is still selling at 50% off? Recognizing species when it is neither standing tree nor surfaced lumber may be tough at first.

[Ian Parish]

Here is a simple tip for using a chain saw and cutting a log in half. I learned this the hard way. It seemed so natural to me to take the big round log flat section and set it on the ground. Meaning the same orentation as a glass of water. Then cut down the pith while the log sits stable. This is in fact the hardest way to go. What you are doing is cutting across all 50 grain lines of the 25 year old tree. The better way to do this is to build a cradle to hold the round side of the log and cut one grain line at a time.

Good luck, before you know it you will be building a kiln out of an old fridge, using computer fans, light bulbs and an old house thermostat.
Ian

[Richard Coers]

Here in Peoria, IL, maple is king. Soft and hard maple by the tons get cut each year. I hunt maple logs with a big hammer. I knock off a patch of bark and look at the log. Blisters and curl show up really well with the bark off. Hit the bark straight on, and it breaks the bond at the cambium layer. Works best in spring and early summer of course. My favorite section to attack first is the buttress flare at the ground. You will get some huge compression curl in that section. If he would just bring you the first 3' off the log, you will get some great figure, and almost never any knots from branches. Depending on the arborist, he may half those sections to get them in the truck. If you have a 20" chainsaw, ask him for 20" lengths. Another good thing about the low sections, there usually isn't as much metal as chest high. Fences are the exception here. Good luck!

[Reed Gray]

Better help for identifying trees is to get the Audobon book on tree identification; bark, leaves, seeds, etc. Just looking at the wood isn't always that much help.

robo hippy

[Rich Aldrich]

Jon

I think everyone answered your questions - I have nothing to add. You might want to haul the wood on a trailer instead of your SUV. I have an Escape and haul wood on a trailer. The issues are a trailer (maybe you can borrow one from a friend), trailer hitch, keeping the trailer lights working, etc.

[Jon Nuckles]

Great info and much appreciated. I will definitely hit some logs with my hammer and will start chainsaw shopping. I would love to have a trailer to haul logs and lumber, but my 2 bedroom condo comes with only 1 parking space and impossible street parking. I guess I'll just have to make multiple trips! Thanks again.