Wife wants to paint the kitchen cabinets

[Greg Scull]

So my dream of creating brand new cherry kitchen cabinets is likely going to be put on hold for this house. LOML is asking that we just paint our builder oak cabinets white and change out the counter tops.

I have some bowling alley (Maple) I was hoping to re-purpose to make a new kitchen island countertop and was planning to re-tile the rest of my counter tops.

I guess my question isn't necessarily a wood working one or a power tool one but. How would you go about painting these white?

HVLP gun? Oil based primer? what about the oak pores? I am reading some older threads about different processes used on painting oak cabinets now. I figured I would ask the painting tool question:

I do have an air compressor but no spray gun as of current. The compressor I have wasn't able to power a gravity fed gun when I was doing auto body for much more than primer. ( I would never trust it with paint coats ).

What kind of (budget ish) paint sprayer should I be considering for this application?
179754
Thanks for any and all input.

[Andrew Howe]

We used sherwin Williams high adhesion primer and a high quality paint from tthem
I had the guy sand them and I drilled the backs of them to put in hidden hinges. Our cabinets were 1988 oak cabinets of good quality.
Paint was excellent. You can get some really smooth finishes with the small foam rollers for the frames and the guy sprayed the doors with I think an electric sprayer

Only complaint is the general contractor who reinstalled them slightly cracked a few frames because he was too lazy to drill
Pilot holes for the new screws. His solution. Use tiny screw that I have had to replace over the last 10 months

[Steve Schoene]

First clean the cabinets well using TSP to get all the water soluble dirt. Then scrub down with copious amounts of naptha to get the oil soluble dirt. Without stripping the old finish filling the oak pores will be tough I'd think because the old finish will keep pore filler from bonding in the pores. Remember that while you can, and should, remove the doors and hardware for painting, the face frames really aren't practical to remove, which really limits the ability to spray the new finish on them. That could mean an oil based enamel, applied by hand (fine rollers are useful) followed by some form of rubbing out since the slow drying oil based enamel will collect dust nibs. Alternatively, a good waterborne pigmented finish designed specifically for spraying, such as those from Target or Enduro, could be sprayed on doors, and with a little practice hand applied on the face frames. Consult the manufacturer of the finish for the appropriate primer.

[Chip Lindley]

Ugh! White!!!

Umm...should the new paint job turn out to be "less than immaculate" you might still get the chance to build your cherry kitchen! *wink*

[Scott Hildenbrand]

Truth be told, I don't see much wrong with those cabinets. Granted they are builder cabinets, but the doors are not hanging and there's no busted up areas...

Hell, my uppers have this nice 5 degree tilt to them away from the wall that someone had siliconed shut and painted. Now those.. Those need redone ASAP.. These things? Some paint slapped on (GOOD) will do some good, indeed.

Good luck either way. :)

[Phil Thien]

I haven't tried this product, but thought I'd toss it out there as possibly something that can be done by someone without a big compressor and high-end gun:

http://cabinets.rustoleumtransformations.com/

[Shawn Christ]

Greg, regarding sprayers, I am not an expert and just recently started spraying my projects. But since you mentioned budget(ish), I thought I would chime in. I own two budget sprayers and am happy with both:

Critter siphon gun ($35 at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Critter-Spray-Products-22032-Siphon/dp/B00006FRPJ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1296016696&sr=8-1)). Great reviews, uses handy/inexpensive mason jars to store your finish, and easy cleanup. Good results without much practice. Downfalls include small pattern and lots of overspray because it is a conventional sprayer.

Central Pneumatic 66222 HVLP gravity gun ($60 at Harbor Freight (http://www.harborfreight.com/high-volume-low-pressure-gravity-feed-spray-gun-66222.html)). Also great reviews, and you can get it for $40 on sale. This is the "professional" version which has stainless and brass fittings. The specs call for a high-CFM compressor, but my smallish Porter-Cable Job Boss compressor (with 6.0 CFM @ 90 PSI) runs it just fine. Make sure you read the instructions, particularly about regulating to a lower pressure. And practice... Good luck!

[Mark Hultzapple]

Greg, I have painted several cabinets using the techniques discussed in previous posts and have had success initially for a nice finish. The cabinets I finished were for a rental property so I didn't want to put a lot of expense in new cabinets so opted to paint. The problem I have is the durability of the painted finish with daily handling of door edges, areas around the pulls etc. Paint, especially white, shows dirt and grime and some of the areas especially around the pulls shows wear. I'm not an expert painter by any means and perhaps the Lowes Valspar paint (latex with shelac primer) had something to do with durability. So for the amount of work involved be sure to get the toughest, scrubbable paint available which is probably going to be oil based. One last thing, be sure and read the labels of the paint to ensure compatability with TSP and rinsing agent. If you don't rinse TSP well enough the paint could react with the TSP residue. One more bit of advice, do some testing of your procedure on one or two doors before tackling all the doors. It might save you some work if you run into a problem. Good luck!

[Don Alexander]

How would you go about painting these white?


what has worked well for me several times is use a mild cleaner and wash them down thoroughly when dry prime them with KILZ (will stick to almost anything ) ; i use a top quality brush because spraying is a pain IMO , but spraying works too ; 1 advantage of using KILZ is that you do not have to worry about the existing finish because KILZ will stick to it very well ; apply as many coats of paint as required to achieve the desired look usually 2 coats is enough to produce a very nice finish

i like the low odor version of KILZ

and use a quality OIL based paint it holds up to the handling that cabinets get better than latex at least semi-gloss for cleaning purposes
flat will look dingy in a hurry

[Larry Edgerton]

At this time I would rate the Sherwin Williams adhesion promoting primer as the best easily sorced primer. Far, far and away better than Kilz. Word of advise when using it, give it a few days before recoat. It seems it isn't sticking with a fingernail test the first day, but in about four days you can't scratch it off. I use it under paint on Azek [plastic] with no problems.

[Casey Gooding]

Thorough cleaning is the first step. With finished cabinets, you could fill most of the pores with a few coats of shellac. I know lots of people will disagree with me, but I like Behr Ultra in Semi-Gloss. This paint has built in primer and is plenty tough. I've never had any problems with the doors or drawers sticking to the face frame like you can run into with latex paint. A good foam roller will give a nice smooth finish.

[Phil Thien]

At this time I would rate the Sherwin Williams adhesion promoting primer as the best easily sorced primer.

Have you ever tried XIM?

I swear XIM is primer mixed with some sort of glue.

[Phil Phelps]

Stop! Go to a real paint store for real professional answers. Stay away from the home centers and rethink what you are doing. Whatever color you choose to use on the cabinets, the oak grain will telegraph through the paint. I doubt you will want to fill all the pores in the doors and carcass. You don't need to spray them, either. There are many ways to finish those cabinets that can be very appealing. Straight white paint over oak isn't one of them. The last sentence is simply my opinion. Cash in on the rest. Good luck.

[Tim Sproul]

As Phil said, the oak grain will be very apparent through the white paint unless you go through a grain filling process. Grain filling for this situation is probably not worth it. Talk to your wife. Most times that peoPle want painted cabinets, they envision smooth painted surfaces, not oak grain painted surfaces.

Take a scrap of oak and a scrap of maple or even mdf. Paint both white and show them to her. Which is she expecting the cabinets to look like? Use decent sized scrap - a panel would be best.

[Greg Scull]

As Phil said, the oak grain will be very apparent through the white paint unless you go through a grain filling process. Grain filling for this situation is probably not worth it. Talk to your wife. Most times that peoPle want painted cabinets, they envision smooth painted surfaces, not oak grain painted surfaces.


She knows it requires grain filling and wants smooth surface. I know that she has no idea how much work all that sanding will be. I have been contemplating leaving the boxes and just filling the grain on the face frames and covering the ends with bead board and Newell posts to hide the joint and buying paint ready replacement doors to save all the prep time on the doors but have no idea yet what that will cost.

Lots of good feedback. Thanks a bunch.

Shawn: thanks for the tip on the HF spray gun. I thought I was done with my HF purchases for now :) and wasn't aware of it as a "HF Gem" Even if I don't end up spraying the doors I might just find some uses for it.

This is what she has in mind ( minus the glazing) and they started as builder oak cabinets.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg27/nodirthere/100_0741.jpg

[Tim Sproul]

Then I would seriously consider refacing the cabinets with a closed grain wood. Maple or poplar with mdf panels, all painted. My estimation is that is less work than trying fill the grain in existing woodwork. From my experience, grain filling is rather easy on large surfaces but quickly becomes tedious and cumbersome on smaller and profiled surfaces.

[Larry Fox]

thanks for the tip on the HF spray gun. I thought I was done with my HF purchases for now :)

And (imho) you should be done with the HF purchases - especially for something like a spray gun. Important disclaimer - I have never used this gun but - IN MY OPINION - if you have a lot of spraying to do and expect good results you might want to look into a decent gun and setup. I have never understood the thought process behind spending big $$ on the tools you need to build something from wood, investing the precious shop time to carefully select the materials and actually build the piece but look for the absolute cheapest and fastest way to get through the finishing process which is arguably what people will notice first if it is done poorly. You just need a single errant drop of finish from a cheap leaky gun to fall dead center onto the showiest part of your project to wipe out any cost savings that you might have realized. Not saying you need to buy a top-of-the-line setup but there are many better options out there for not an insane amount of $$.

Sorry - that turned into a bit of a "soapbox" moment for me. :)

As to the refinishing of the cabinets - you might be better served in looking at one of these places that makes doors on spec and buying some poplar or maple ones rather than trying to grain-fill all that oak. I think you will come out on the good side as the doors are not that expensive in poplar or maple. That would leave you filling the face frames which (while a lot) is more manageable.

[Mike Wilkins]

Grain filling will be tedious and not fun with paint. The paint and prime steps will fill much of the grain, but folks will still know it is Oak. My own kitchen refinishing/painting steps went like this:
1. As you remove the doors, use a method of numbering the doors to keep them order. This will insure the correct door is placed back in its original location. I used numbered punches.
2. Remove all hardware/screws/knobs and place in a bag if you intend to re-use them.
3. Sanding-mine were flat panel plywood doors, so they went easily into my Performax 16-32 sander. Use a finishing sander to get a really smooth surface. This may be difficult with raised panel doors. In that case,
use one of the deglossing products recommended for your primer.
4. Primer/paint application: if you have facilities to spray, that would be ideal. I don't, so I used a 4" roller with a paint pan. Use one of the high quality foam rollers for a smooth finish.
5. Use the best quality paint possible. I used Lowes Kitchen/Bath paint, but the local places where the pros shop is your best bet.
Good luck and be sure to show us the final results.

[Shawn Christ]

Shawn: thanks for the tip on the HF spray gun. I thought I was done with my HF purchases for now :) and wasn't aware of it as a "HF Gem" Even if I don't end up spraying the doors I might just find some uses for it.

You're welcome.


And (imho) you should be done with the HF purchases - especially for something like a spray gun. Important disclaimer - I have never used this gun but - IN MY OPINION - if you have a lot of spraying to do and expect good results you might want to look into a decent gun and setup. I have never understood the thought process behind spending big $$ on the tools you need to build something from wood, investing the precious shop time to carefully select the materials and actually build the piece but look for the absolute cheapest and fastest way to get through the finishing process which is arguably what people will notice first if it is done poorly. You just need a single errant drop of finish from a cheap leaky gun to fall dead center onto the showiest part of your project to wipe out any cost savings that you might have realized. Not saying you need to buy a top-of-the-line setup but there are many better options out there for not an insane amount of $$.

Sorry - that turned into a bit of a "soapbox" moment for me. :)

No problem, Larry. You make a very good point, and I think others will agree with you. Personally, I'm not willing to commit to that approach until I actually SEE bad results. So far my results have been excellent. My projects are for my own home so I'm willing to take that gamble to save a few bucks, and some of the finishes I use (such as shellac) are easily repaired. I learned about both sprayers here at the Creek, and some searching will reveal some very strong support for the HF gun. I would submit that it is a reasonable option for someone who wants to try their hand at spraying (particularly HVLP) without much investment, and should not be automatically disregarded because of where it is sold. I'm not a huge fan of HF, and have had my share of lemons, but this gun is not one of them.

Greg, keep us posted on your refinishing project. I have raised panel oak cabinets with a very similar finish to yours. I've been contemplating some changes for a few years now. Maybe this will be my inspiration...

[Phil Phelps]

Greg, read Larry Fox's reply again. It's spot on. If I'm painting wood, I want no grain showing. You could fill the face frame on the oak cabinets and have doors made from a company that does just that. There is a place in Texas, just up the road a bit from me, that will make any door from most any wood or wood product, at a reasonable price. I built all my doors back in '05, I have a big shop and the time, and made 30 inset panel doors with poplar frames and 1/4" MDF panels, because MDF won't move like wood. I filled the MDF with joint compound and caulked where the MDF meets the poplar, wiped it clean, primed, (sprayed), the doors with Bullseye pigmented shellac and finished them with Benjamin Moore Satin Impervo using an airless spray rig with a fine finish tip. They look like baked on enamel and took countless hours to build and finish. Building was the easy part. Since you live in California, you may have limitations to the type of paint you can buy. I recommend an alkyd, low luster, enamel, especially if you have to brush the paint. If you don't have a spray booth, I wouldn't even think about spraying in your garage, especially solvent based products. Don't forget the hardware. What kind of hinges will you use? European overlay, half overlay (really do your homework) inset, springload, butt? There is a lot to consider. This is a big job, especially if you build new doors. Good luck and keep us informed.

[Tony Perrone]

This post is great my wife wants me to do the same thing including the bowling alley island only difference she wants dark chocolate or somthing ( I don't pick colors I just do the work),