Who Said glass does not look good laser engraved!

[William Richardson]

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/N1N7bbCzlrlCxn9-3jQGNw?feat=directlink

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/N1N7bbCzlrlCxn9-3jQGNw?feat=directlink


Reversed image through the color and slight frost to the glass.

[Chris DeGerolamo]

How large is that piece? It does look great by the way.

[Frank Corker]

Did anyone say that glass doesn't look good laser engraved?

[Ross Moshinsky]

Did anyone say that glass doesn't look good laser engraved?

I do. I've seen tons of samples. Not once have I been impressed. There is always some chipping. Comparing it to sandblasting, it doesn't even come close.

[Frank Corker]

Okay then. Apart from Ross.

[Dan Hintz]

Did anyone say that glass doesn't look good laser engraved?
Ross isn't the only one I've seen mention it. I'll agree that there's a different look to it, but when properly done it looks great (and without the chipping Ross mentions). I think the chipped stuff is what gives it a bad rep.

[Ross Moshinsky]

Any true photo buffs here?

Someone take a 6"x12" piece of glass and engrave something on half of it. I'll happily sandblast the other half with the exact same image. Send it out to a photo buff and they can take the pictures. Obviously we'd need super zoomed in photos as from 12" away, everything looks kosher. It's up close where I think laser engraved glass isn't up to snuff.

I also want to make one other point: The consistency of engraving glass is the real issue. You could do 10 pieces and have no chipping but then do 2-3 others and get chipping. I've done some "acceptable" glass on the laser, but the next time I go to do a glass project it's a mess. The consistency is rarely there which makes it a very difficult material to work with. This obviously has to do with every glass being formulated slightly different.

[Gary Hair]

Did anyone say that glass doesn't look good laser engraved?

I'm usually not that nice when referring to lasered glass...

[Dan Hintz]

Obviously we'd need super zoomed in photos as from 12" away, everything looks kosher. It's up close where I think laser engraved glass isn't up to snuff.
Who views images 3" from their face? If I zoomed in enough to see the atomic structure, everything would look like crap. When I pick something up to look at it, it's probably 12" from my face, and I only "zoom in" when I'm specifically looking for differences between two methods. I don't care either way, but if you want a reasonably fair comparison between two methods, it makes sense to view them as you normally would, not with a microscope.

[Tom Bull]

Bill, some details, please. What is the object, how big is it, what is the blue color?
Thanks,

[Ross Moshinsky]

Dan, I 100% disagree with you. A craftsman wants everything to look good from all viewing distances. When you first receive anything engraved, you take a close examination to make sure things are spelled correctly and to read the inscription. This can mean viewing from a close distance. If you engrave a beer or wine glass, when someone is taking a close look at the color or smelling it they will view your engraving from a distance. I'm not sure I could look a customer in the face and say, "oh well just don't view it from that close." Imagine if finish carpenters took the same view at things. "Oh, the molding looks good from across the room. Only when you're up close can you see the gaps". How about a painter? "Oh, it looks good as long as you don't shine a light on the wall. Just keep the room dim and no one will notice I didn't put enough paint down."

This is where the laser as ruined engraving in some regards. In rotary engraving everything is a vector interpretation. It's always clear and crisp. Viewing from 3" or 12". That is the same way I look at laser engraving. Sure, I could engrave everything at 300dpi and it would save me a ton of time but I know that when I look closely, it's just not good enough. I also know 500dpi and 1000dpi showed no appreciable difference under a jewelers loop. So I engrave at 500dpi 99% of the time.

[Mike Null]

I'm another who prefers the look of sandblasted glass to laser engraving.

[Martin Boekers]

I'll use an analogy as both processes are different and give different results.

Take guitars for instant, you can have a nylon classical style, a solid body electric or
a steel string acoustic. They all are guitars and the each will (may ;-) produce
music, but they have their intended use as well, and as what can be expected from them.

Lasering glass is fine for many items and just won't cut it for others.

How many sand etchers charge the same price to engrave say a wine bottle as a laser etcher would.
Sometimes clients still want something similar but won't pay additional cost. Just as long as they
understand the difference.


Marty

[Dean Fowell]

Awesome bill that looks good, I did a 24 x 36 inch glass family photo come out good

[Frank Corker]

Okay then, anyone apart from Ross, Dan (who's almost on the fence), Gary and Mike?

[Dan Hintz]

I'm not really on the fence, per se, I just qualify the "laser etched glass looks horrible" statement with "if it's done incorrectly".

[Gary Hair]

"laser etched glass looks horrible" statement with "if it's done incorrectly".

Therein lies the rub - I don't feel that there is a way to do it correctly...

[Bill Cunningham]

I just did a shop sample on 8x10 flat glass, a photo of Crosby leaping in the air after scoring the hockey gold.. It came out smooth and PERFECT (I do a LOT of photos, and my personal standards are very high). I will see if I can get a good contrast photo of it tomorrow and post a link to it when I can. This image was done for demonstration purposes only, because it's not my image. I just wanted it in glass for a shop demo, and personal experiment. I know a sandblaster in skilled hands can do amazing things, but I have my doubts if the amount of detail at 600 dpi I have in this photo can be cut into a mask.

[Rick Irwin]

We have both laser engravers and sandblast cabinets. Sandblasting the glass has smoother superior finish without a doubt. Creates more depth and dimension also.
As far as detail, you can laser the masking material on glass and then use sand blaster.
Lasering on glass is quicker and much easier therefore less expensive process.

[Hilton Lister]

I also used to think that sandblasting was superior as I have both systems. However the laser is far less trouble and my results these days are very close. As for glasses, the laser is far easier to set up straight lines of text
than it is to line up a mask, not to mention splitting and overlapping to get the mask to sit flat on a curved glass. Each has it's own merits and the 1000dpi setting on my elderly GCC Mercury is drastically better than 500dpi.
First choice for me is laser as the profit margin is better (not so much labour)

[William Richardson]

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_rDD4jpOGtN0/TOHYPwzcUAI/AAAAAAAAAdc/gO0dVw8bffY/s1024/Gojoteki%20tables%20%283%29.JPG

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/PjonZVTbkUYT3PzegzSrYA?feat=directlink

This is a glass side pedestal table top that measures almost 18 inches in diameter. The color is a hard enamel slick coat on the under side of the table. The images was reversed and lasered through the color, so the top portion of the glass was still smooth.

I did this for a friend for his business and it pays every month with people inquiring how it was done and where can I get one.

I am so glad I could spark a good debate! :-)

[Wil Lambert]

The parts turned out nice. I prefer sandblasted over laser. That said most people don;t know the difference. Most customers are happy with lasered glass. One is because of cost, two they don't know the difference unless they are side by side.

[Liesl Dexheimer]

Ahhh totally loving that piece! It almost looks like acrylic rather than glass. Amazing job! :)

[Ron Hamilton]

I do both sand etching (our origional business) and laser, the laser will etch detail on glass that sand etching will not, the cheaper the glass the better the result with the laser.Even with photo mask the sand etching has its limitations, blown stencils if the lines are very fine.
There is a place for both but methods and it is nice to have options.

Ron

[Bill Cunningham]

Still trying to find a few spare minutes to photograph that glass piece.. Weird, January was virtually dead up until Monday morning, then everything that would have normally been ordered and done in the first 3 weeks, has suddenly all turned up this week.. But it sure beats sitting around twiddling my thumbs:D

[Bill Cunningham]

Ok .. Finally found some time .. This is the Glass photo I mentioned above..
It takes up a size of 6 inches x 10 inches on a 8x10 piece of plain 3mm glass
The glass was placed on a sheet of black anodized and photographed from an angle to give it some contrast. A close up of the face shows the detail on the glass.. The Image after tweaking to my eye, was processed using the generic glass setting on photograv. I have never seen a sandblasted photo that comes close to this amount of detail. If you have one that does, please post it so everyone can get an idea of how the two differ, or compare in rendering images in glass..

[Dee Gallo]

Nice, Bill, really nice! What's the old saying.... it's not the tool it's the hand holding it?

[Dan Hintz]

Bill,

What's the rough size of the section you blew up... looks like in the area of 1"x1", sound about right? For posterity sake...

[Bill Cunningham]

Thanks for the kind words Dee. And Dan, the face size is .5 wide.. I can get a closeup to .8" on my camera so I got as close as I could.. The actual etch is on the other side of the glass..

[Dee Gallo]

Ok .. Finally found some time .. This is the Glass photo I mentioned above..
It takes up a size of 6 inches x 10 inches on a 8x10 piece of plain 3mm glass
The glass was placed on a sheet of black anodized and photographed from an angle to give it some contrast. A close up of the face shows the detail on the glass.. The Image after tweaking to my eye, was processed using the generic glass setting on photograv. I have never seen a sandblasted photo that comes close to this amount of detail. If you have one that does, please post it so everyone can get an idea of how the two differ, or compare in rendering images in glass..

So Bill, are you saying that this is "just glass", no paint before engraving? Any black we see in the photo is showing through from the anodized backdrop sheet? If it were to be displayed or framed, you would have to put it on top of a solid colored background, right?

Again, it's a beautiful example of what's possible when you prepare your photo correctly.

cheers, dee

[Bill Cunningham]

Yup, that's all it is Dee, ordinary clear, 3mm window glass.. I just set a sheet of anodized alum. on the table. Plopped down the glass and took the picture from a bit of an angle to allow the light to hit the etch and give it some contrast against the black. Yes, in a frame this would have to have a dark background to achieve the same result.. The engraving, is also on the 'reverse' side of the glass..

[Frank Corker]

That's a great job on that Bill, plenty of depth coming from the black to make the engraving stand out.

[John Barton]

I guess I am in the "ignorance is bliss" camp when it comes to laser engraving on glass. The few pieces I have done came out looking pretty awesome to me. I have a friend who is an artist and she has her works laser engraved on glass and they sell for a couple thousand each when done. I looked at her pieces and all I could think was wow.

I do have a laser engraving vs. sandblasting story though. Once upon a time I set up the laser at a large pool tournament and I thought I would be the only one doing engraving as no one had ever done it before. Just my luck that same year someone sets up a very small sandblasting booth to do engraving.

Well as the week wore on I got more and more people who compared the work done by the sandblaster to ours and just about every time the person who had it done there said they wished they had seen us first.

Of course this was engraving into wood through several layers of finish. I did however do few glass trophies and I even went to Home Depot and got some window glass and did some billiard balls on them for a few people.

[Frank Corker]

John, I don't suppose your friend who does the portaits has a website by chance do they?

[John Barton]

Here it is Frank,

http://www.rt9ny.com/gallery.htm

None of her glass is on the site as far as I can see.

[Mike Null]

John

Off topic but just had to mention it. "Ride the 9" is an old pool room term which takes me back to my misspent youth. I spent way too much time shooting pool in the local pool hall trying to pick up a few bucks here and there--that was close to 60 years ago.