The ups and downs of Turning (HFs #2 and #3)

[Cathy Schaewe]

It's funny how one can be so happy with a piece, and then shortly thereafter, look at it with disdain. Or at least that's what happens to me on a fairly regular basis.

Here's HF #2, which I turned a couple of months ago. I was quite happy with it for about a month, then ... not so much. The grain is pretty, though.

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Then I took a pic of David D's beautiful blue HF and put it on the wall, and came up with this, from last weekend. At least I'm still happy with it this week. We'll see what happens next week!

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Oak burl, of course. Lacquer, not yet buffed.

[Lee Koepke]

What is it about the first turning that changed your mind? If you don't mind me askin???

[Cathy Schaewe]

What is it about the first turning that changed your mind? If you don't mind me askin???
Too sharp in the shoulder. Too large in the base (I did this before Wally Dickerman told me to make the base 1/3 the size of the widest point).
The three of them (with the first one I posted a while back) make a nice little group, though.

[John Keeton]

Significant improvement, Cathy!!! I really like the filled void - or, at least, that is what it appears to be.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I do like both Cathy. Yes I can see where you are coming from but you learned from it. Progress is good. The second is a great looking piece. I do like the form.

[Lee Koepke]

Too sharp in the shoulder. Too large in the base (I did this before Wally Dickerman told me to make the base 1/3 the size of the widest point).
The three of them (with the first one I posted a while back) make a nice little group, though.
OK ... I see what you are talking about. I am just learning about the 'pleasing' proportions. I think the voids help soften the shoulder some and they really fit as they are. I like your work, thanks for the response.

[David DeCristoforo]

"...funny how one can be so happy with a piece, and then shortly thereafter, look at it with disdain..."

I think I have experienced this with just about everything I have ever made. You get that "golden moment" but then, you notice some little thing that could be improved and after that, you never want to see the thing again. That's half the beauty of selling your work. it goes away before you can start picking it apart. The other half, needless to say, is getting the money!

[John Beaver]

That just means you're improving.
I'm always looking for ways to improve my work, glad to see you pushing yourself forward.

[Michael James]

Hey those are nice! Did you order the monster yet? I see lots of HF's in your future :p

The shoulders on the top one only look too square because you have a vase bottom. If you pulled that base in it would be "perfect" to my eye. If you softened them, then you would have a nice vase form.
The wood is beautiful as are the finishes on them. They're keepers... thanks for posting!
Michael

[Baxter Smith]

Ditto what Michael said. The second is perhaps a better HF with its smoother curves but the first is still a pretty decent vase. Like them both.

[David E Keller]

I think they're both quite nice, but I prefer the second form. That long bark inclusion on the second one is fantastic, too! I can't wait to see where you go with hollowing next.

[Cathy Schaewe]

I think they're both quite nice, but I prefer the second form. That long bark inclusion on the second one is fantastic, too! I can't wait to see where you go with hollowing next.

Thank you. That darn monster keeps calling my name ....

[Cathy Schaewe]

The shoulders on the top one only look too square because you have a vase bottom. If you pulled that base in it would be "perfect" to my eye. If you softened them, then you would have a nice vase form.
Michael
That's interesting. I'm going to think about that for a while.

[Cathy Schaewe]

Significant improvement, Cathy!!! I really like the filled void - or, at least, that is what it appears to be.
On the second one, it's part filled and part bark. Epoxy and coffee, of course.

[Bill Bolen]

I like them both but see what you mean on the first. Quite often anymore, when in doubt, once the exterior is done I remove it from the lathe (leave mounted in chuck) and let it sit on the bench while I look and look and look. Seems to have helped me and hope it will help you with those decisions on form...Bill...

[David DeCristoforo]

"Epoxy and coffee, of course."

Ahh... but what kind of coffee? The second form is a vast improvement over the first.

[Wally Dickerman]

The second turning is more appealing to the eye than the first because the curve works so well. A good curve from top to bottom, then "tucked in" at the bottom. Well done.

A tip...When working on the form, it's a good idea to view the piece upside down. A good form will look good from any angle.

I've observed many times that a well done curve invites people to "caress" the curve when they pick the piece up. A poor curve does not. The second piece would do that.

Wally

[Roger Chandler]

Both are nice, but I think the second one has better form. Nice job Cathy!

[Fred Perreault]

Cathy, at this point, for me anyway, I think they both look fine. Stoop shouldered, square bottom, skinny neck..... I don't mean to mock those that have a finer eye for good proportion, but I have yet to make a hollow form, so I admire those that can do that trick. I kinda think my reluctance to challenge the hollow form is as much $$tool$$ as any inherent fear. It is very interesting how hollow forms can display the natural beauty of bark inclusions and cavities. :) :)

[Cathy Schaewe]

The second turning is more appealing to the eye than the first because the curve works so well. A good curve from top to bottom, then "tucked in" at the bottom. Well done.

A tip...When working on the form, it's a good idea to view the piece upside down. A good form will look good from any angle.

I've observed many times that a well done curve invites people to "caress" the curve when they pick the piece up. A poor curve does not. The second piece would do that.

Wally
Wally - thank you for your advice. It has been very helpful to date. I'll try looking at things upside down. And thank you very much for the compliment.

[Cathy Schaewe]

"Epoxy and coffee, of course."

Ahh... but what kind of coffee? The second form is a vast improvement over the first.

Jamaica Blue Mountain. (Just kidding)

Thank you.

[charlie knighton]

i like your improvment, very nice

[Steve Schlumpf]

It's funny how one can be so happy with a piece, and then shortly thereafter, look at it with disdain.

Well, I'm not sure about the disdain part but I do know that looking back at those pieces I first hollowed - I am embarrassed by the obvious errors I made when turning them. Still, they served a purpose and each and every one of them taught me what to strive for in the next one. Funny part is that looking back - you can see those things. I am somewhat worried that in a year or two's time I will look back at what I think is some really good turning I am doing today - and see the same obvious errors - just from a different vantage point.

The one constant in turning (to me!) is to have fun and if you are adventurous - then push your boundaries and ask lots & lots of questions from those who already turn what it is that you want to turn!

Looking forward to seeing more of your work real soon!

[Dennis Ford]

Not to steal Cathy's thread about some nice HFs but; Fred, you can try hollow forms without spending a lot of money. If you start with smaller HFs (and you should start with smaller ones), they can be done without the fancy hollowing systems. Be warned that you will want a hollowing system to try larger forms if you like making the small ones. A swan neck tool and a straight tool will allow you to do quite a bit, easy to make, not terribly expensive to buy.

[Fred Perreault]

I love this forum. Inspiring, confidence building, informative, knowledgable..... expen$ive :) :)

[Michelle Rich]

This is nothing but the LEARNING PROCESS and developing an EYE..all of us here started with vessels we thought were great. As we continued to turn, we improved our skills, and made better & better vessels. Keep turning & sharing.

[Carol Kinney]

Hello Kathy,
This is part of becoming an artist; you're starting to get the eye. But there's a lot of different taste out there so as you look at a piece you've made, please yourself before anyone. I'm mainly a glass and clay artist and could go on and on of the good qualities of both. Now that I've decided to dedicate my time to turning, some of those qualities transfer over but others do not. One rule that does seem to be fairly true with most art media and it also does seem to be true in turning. That one rule is something my clay sculpture teacher always would remind us of which is "nothing in nature have hard corners or straight lines so give your form curves and let it flow from one part of the piece to the other, it will please your eyes and be more natural” (he’s from Japan and was taught at a very early age to look at nature for answers in his artwork). I try to use this and remind myself of this rule as much as possible . . . it works most of the time.

Not sure if this trick works for everyone but it really has helped me. I take photos as I work on a piece, for some reason it helps me see what’s wrong. I don’t have a clue the reason for this but it has really helped me point out problem areas in my art. In turning I've found it a little harder but I'm getting better at taking photos while I turn and it does seem to be helping me.

Oh and one other thing – you’ll never be 100% satisfied with your art work. You can still be very proud of what you’ve accomplish, but I always can see something I could have done better or different. As you get better and better those “things” are only noticed by a trained eye (someone that works in the field). If you’re completely satisfied with your pieces, that’s the time to find something else (at least that's what I feel). I’ve never been completely satisfied with any of my pieces, I’ve really liked some but there has always been room for improvement – and yes it DRIVES you crazy but that’s how we improve our work. We humans are very strange :)

BTW - I love your second group of photos with the flowing lines! Thanks for sharing.

Carol

[David DeCristoforo]

The eye can detect the slightest variation in a curve. When I did curves in "flat work" I would get my eye right down on the edge and follow the curve. I could easily see any discrepancies. It's not as easy with a turned piece because there is no hard edge but you can still sight along the curve of the form.

Also, I would like to respectfully disagree with the statement that there are no "hard lines" in nature. Who ever said this has obviously never seen a quartz crystal!

[Keith E Byrd]

Where is the source for these little tidbits like "make the base 1/3 the size of the widest point."
I frequently see things like this posted and wonder are they written down somewhere? Just learned rules of thumb?
I do like both pieces and understand now looking at the second - it is a little more pleasing to the eye.

[Roland Martin]

I love both of these HFs, Cathy. The second one is definitely a better form, but the first one, I think, could use a smaller base but the shoulder seems good to me. If I could do half as good as either one of them, I would be a happy camper. Very nice work and thanks for posting.

[John Keeton]

Keith, you might want to look at the website of Russ Fairfield (http://www.woodturnerruss.com/)(just recently deceased.) Many of the "rules" are in some of his writings. I don't know how long the site will remain up given his death.

[Carol Kinney]

....Also, I would like to respectfully disagree with the statement that there are no "hard lines" in nature. Who ever said this has obviously never seen a quartz crystal!

Sorry David I should have mentioned the type of sculpture (it was human bodies) and I always figured he was talking of living breathing animals. It was something he used so we would remember not to have hard edges in our sculptures - that's what our eyes are drawn to so it took away from our pieces. Then again, he being from Japan and only speaking broken English the translation could have gotten a little missed. But I respect him and love his work so I understood what he was trying to tell us (no sharp edges in the human body). We have hard edges in turning at times (I get them most of the time when I didn't want them) but this just reminds me to look at the piece and to make sure everything is flowing - that's all. Sorry for the confusion.

[Brian Effinger]

Well done, Cathy! :) Turning is a process of continual improvement, and it is evident here. And the next HF's will be better. You should be happy with both, because they are steps on your journey.

[Carol Kinney]

BTW - Both are wonderful and I'd love to have the talent to create either (working on it). Great job and thanks for posting, I think you'll be happy with it next month also :).