Pedestal Bowls – Suggestions/Tweaks Welcome

[Baxter Smith]

Once turned this Maple Bowl back in October from some Maple I picked up in Maine over the summer. Once turned the walnut one after that from some wood I picked up at Ken Hills. I had some questions I wanted to ask but wasn’t going to do it until they were both finished. After only putting some BLO on the walnut one, I stumbled on some interesting wood and want to play with that for the moment. So on to the questions.

These shapes were kind of patterned after a few that I saw Leo Vanderloo post a couple times. I didn’t go back and try to find his original versions so am not sure if they are the least bit close and they don’t have to be. I like the simple lines and they look ok as a centerpiece with something in it. I am thinking about turning one out of the Ambrosia Maple I just found. (Though my wife made the comment when I just came into the house, “Wont that waste a lot pretty wood?”):rolleyes:

Although the people I give these ones to may say they are nice, I am interested in hearing from people who are a bit more discerning! So please feel free to pick these apart!! As soon as I started taking these pictures I started to!;) I know this is somewhat a personal taste thing, but if you were to modify or tweak the next ones a bit, what would you do to make them more appealing to you?

The dimensions are:
Maple - 13.5 x 4.5 x ¼. The base is 4 3/8 wide.
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Walnut - 9 x 3 ¼ x 1/8. The base is 3 ¼ wide.
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The spalted one originally created another question that I wanted to ask even more. I had some tearout in spots that was a lot more noticeable when it came time to start sanding it. How do you deal with tearout on a green piece of wood that you want to turn thin? By the time I had finished sanding out the tearout at the very center of the bottom of the bowl, my 1/4 inch of thickness was a thing of the past! :eek: Anything other than sharper tools, lighter passes, better tool presentation? I know that some have posted they use CA glue, or Titebond diluted then brushed on. But in the case of the maple, how close to finish thickness do you have to be before you put it on? Will it warp while you are waiting for what you put on to dry? I tried to turn to the finish thickness about an inch or so at a time working down into the bowl to avoid some the flexing. Thanks for offering your expertise on form and turning tricks!:)

[Steve Vaughan]

Baxter, I think they're pretty cool like they are and they'll be great gifts for someone. My first reaction was depending on what you're putting in them, you can turn them upside down or right-side up to show something off, something big or something small. Here's a brainstorm for ya: what if on another one, you keep the form with the foot as deep as it is, but then cut out parts of the foot so that you have a three-footed (or three-legged?) bowl? Oh, and before you cut out for the feet (or legs?), cut a very slight groove on the lathe, say, a quarter of an inch from bottom edge, and use that to outline black shoe dye at the bottom tips so that you have black toes to complement the wood? That might be unique. Overall, I like 'em both just as they are!

[Roger Chandler]

Baxter........I wonder about the quickness of applying finish as soon as finished sanding is completed [like immediately to seal the wood] Also, I wonder if warpage would be minimized a little with the use of a bowl steady to help force the wood fibers to stay in round, at least while finishing the seal coat on the inside, and maybe all but the area where the bowl steady wheels are in contact.

Do you suppose that would minimize the "movement" [warping] when a piece is turned with wood that is at least somewhat green?

Your forms on these are nice, and both pieces have their own character to the grain..........although I really do like the spalting, I think the walnut has a classy look, and would be my pick of the two. Nice work on these!

[Mark Burge]

Those are beautiful Baxter. Tear out has been a constant problem for me too. I think I generally get too aggressive with my cuts then I try to make up for it with a scraper and then sandpaper. I tried the CA once or twice and it helped with tear out, but I was left with an unsightly spot when I applied finish. I gave that up pretty quick. I have tried a cabinet scraper with the lathe off and that has been pretty effective, but essentially, you are dealing with the same problems as sandpaper there. I really think it goes back to the three things you say, sharp tool, light touch, and right cut.

[Mark Hubl]

Hey Baxter those are quite nice. I can see the contemporary/danish Leo influence in them. They are both quite striking. I think if you would have gotten a little bit more pith out of the maple it might have held the line a little better. The long lines are very nice. I like the shape of the maple one a little better than the walnut. Can't help much with the sanding question. Maybe Bob B will chime in, he's is pretty good with the sanding secrets. When all else fails, texturing works!

[Bob Bergstrom]

Baxter I've had a couple of thoughts (oh, that can be dangerous). If the piece is not too warped when done, some have had success clamping it between two pieces of plywood or particleboard I would spray it with water before putting it in the press to help it stay pliable. Repeat if necessary Spraying water on the outside should expand the cells and help the rim go flat. After it has dried, then sand out the tear out and finish the bottom. I use shellac or lacquer to stiffen up the fiber when the bowl is dry. Some have used hair dryers to dry the area and then sanded it . I don't know if you could use shellac on a wet bowl. The alcohol would penetrate but and help dry it enough to sand??

[Baxter Smith]

Thanks all for the thoughts! I have a feeling I didn't explain well enough on the question of how how to readuce tearout from spalting when turning a piece thin and to finish thickness when green. I don't mind the warping in the maple one. That mostly happened after I turned it and it sat for a month. What I was hoping for was a little different. Is there a way to stiffen the spalted fibers in the wood while you are turning without having to resort to dousing with CA before the final pass and the resulting staining. Will brushing on a diluted glue mixture soak into the fibers deeply enough to stiffen the fibers when the piece is at a thickness that won't warp immediately. Or in other words, turn a spot to 3/8, brush something on, then turn to 1/4 almost immediately. Repeat this process from rim to bottom. Brushing on a diluted mixture of glue (though I haven't done it) seems like it would work on a dry bowl turned to that thickness because it would be somewhat less likely to move while you waited for the glue to dry. Not sure I explained this much better.

[charlie knighton]

i like the form of the walnut piece, always think continous curve, unless you want to break the rule, Baxter.....you might use shellax at 3/8, let dry 2 hours, turn out the shellax

[Steve Schlumpf]

Baxter - I like both of these but find the Maple version a little more to my liking because of form. To me, the way the bowl and foot meet works better on the Maple. The curve on the Walnut in that same area seems like it is positioned a little high and you lost a lot of bowl because of it.

When turning green and sometimes punky wood - I resort to using a shear cut to clean up those areas. Think of a shear scrape but with the handle of the gouge held very low so that the edge presented to the wood is at an extreme angle - almost vertical. This cut will slice anything out there - as long as the gouge is sharp and you allow the gouge to cut and not force it.

Other than that - there are epoxy cocktails that folks use that's nothing more than epoxy diluted with DNA but you will have a setup time before you can finish turn the wood.

[Baxter Smith]

... what if on another one, you keep the form with the foot as deep as it is, but then cut out parts of the foot so that you have a three-footed (or three-legged?) bowl?.....[/ QUOTE]
Thanks Steve. I have done one 3 legged bowl. Never thought about trying that here.
[QUOTE=Bob Bergstrom;1616617].... If the piece is not too warped when done, some have had success clamping it between two pieces of plywood or particleboard I would spray it with water before putting it in the press to help it stay pliable. Repeat if necessary Spraying water on the outside should expand the cells and help the rim go flat. ...
Thanks Bob, the warping doesn't bother me but never thought of trying to straighten that way. I have done something similar with old table leaves.


.... When all else fails, texturing works!
Thanks Mark. I want to try that sometime, just not when I have to!


i like the form of the walnut piece, always think continous curve, unless you want to break the rule, Baxter.....you might use shellax at 3/8, let dry 2 hours, turn out the shellax
Thanks Charlie. The curve of the maple seemed ok at first but tried to smooth it out on the walnut. I will give the shellac a try.

Baxter - I like both of these but find the Maple version a little more to my liking because of form. To me, the way the bowl and foot meet works better on the Maple. The curve on the Walnut in that same area seems like it is positioned a little high and you lost a lot of bowl because of it.

When turning green and sometimes punky wood - I resort to using a shear cut to clean up those areas. Think of a shear scrape but with the handle of the gouge held very low so that the edge presented to the wood is at an extreme angle - almost vertical. This cut will slice anything out there - as long as the gouge is sharp and you allow the gouge to cut and not force it.

Other than that - there are epoxy cocktails that folks use that's nothing more than epoxy diluted with DNA but you will have a setup time before you can finish turn the wood.
Thanks Steve. Maybe I can get the smoother curve of the walnut lower on the next one. The volume that the bowl can hold was not as much of a concern as what is an appealing line. I used the technigue you described on the outside and it worked pretty well. The inside of the bowl was another matter. Looked ok through my glasses and face shield while turning, but when it came time to sand and I was checking it out up close and personal.....arrgh.

[Ken Hill]

I like them both Baxter.

[Michelle Rich]

Hi Baxter. I have found shellac to help with tear out. It stiffens the fibers. It's cheap & fast.

[Richard Madden]

I think they both look great. Here is a product I'm thinking about trying for punky wood. Some have had good luck with it. http://polyall.com/

[Thom Sturgill]

One more point Baxter. Make very sure that your last two or three passes are 'downhill'. If the fibers you are trying to cut are not supported, they will pull out rather than cut - even with sharp tools. This means the cuts on the inside of the bowl must go from rim to center and on the outside must go from center to rim if you are turning face-grain. On an endgrain or spindle oriented turning the direction is opposite, cut from center to rim on the inside.

As to form, I would probably NOT tried to get a curve between the bowl and pedistal with a straight sided bowl, but rather ran the side into a stop point like a bead or some other detail.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Baxter I like them both but the maple is my favorite as far as form. I do like Steve on the outside and use a vertical shear scrap with a sharp gouge. Comes off like fine hair. On the inside I use the gouge to scrap (flute at about 9 o'clock)cutting with the bottom wing after putting shellac on the tear out. I also like using the hunter tool for this as it will also give a fine smooth surface. I have also used epoxy cocktail which like Steve said is 5 minute epoxy mixed with DNA if the tear out is bad or punky wood.

[Baxter Smith]

I like them both Baxter.
Thanks for the walnut Ken. It is my favorite wood when it comes to furniture. My daughter has had a longtime request for a bedroom suite made from my stash for a wedding present. I was kind of relieved when she broke up with her long time boyfriend this summer.;):)



Hi Baxter. I have found shellac to help with tear out. It stiffens the fibers. It's cheap & fast.
Thanks Michelle I will give that a try. Cheap and fast sounds good to me.

I think they both look great. Here is a product I'm thinking about trying for punky wood. Some have had good luck with it. http://polyall.com/
Thanks for the link Richard. This piece wasn't what I would call especially punky. 98% of this bowl I could have started sanding at 220. It was that 2% that made me go back to 80 that drove me nuts.

One more point Baxter. Make very sure that your last two or three passes are 'downhill'. If the fibers you are trying to cut are not supported, they will pull out rather than cut - even with sharp tools. This means the cuts on the inside of the bowl must go from rim to center and on the outside must go from center to rim if you are turning face-grain. On an endgrain or spindle oriented turning the direction is opposite, cut from center to rim on the inside.

As to form, I would probably NOT tried to get a curve between the bowl and pedistal with a straight sided bowl, but rather ran the side into a stop point like a bead or some other detail.
Thanks Thom. I was actually trying not to have a straight sided bowl. More of a gentle flare outward to the rim. Thats probably a little more visible in the walnut one. Since you got that impression, that may be something I want to try and accentuate even more.

Baxter I like them both but the maple is my favorite as far as form. I do like Steve on the outside and use a vertical shear scrap with a sharp gouge. Comes off like fine hair. On the inside I use the gouge to scrap (flute at about 9 o'clock)cutting with the bottom wing after putting shellac on the tear out. I also like using the hunter tool for this as it will also give a fine smooth surface. I have also used epoxy cocktail which like Steve said is 5 minute epoxy mixed with DNA if the tear out is bad or punky wood.
Thanks Benie. I used the vertical shear scrape on the outside so had the hair. The only tearout I had there was at the very bottom of the curve on the pedestal. It was the inside where the tiny tearout got me. I will try the shellace before the final pass as I work down the inside of the bowl.

I appreciate everyones comments and suggestions and will put them to use!:)

[Ken Hill]

Haha, well, take her next boyfriend on a wood hunt, I have no doubt you will work him near death and you might even be able to run him off with that Stihl!

btw, I am still trying to get to the shore, just been busy as all get out and the weather has been crappy. That big piece of cherry is doing fine so far!

[Baxter Smith]

Ken, let me know if you make it over this way. The big pieces of ambrosia maple seem to have vanished;) but I have some cutoffs left that might make some nice calls. What size green blanks do you like start to with for your turkey or other calls?

[Ken Hill]

4x4x1.25 is a safe bet, a bit larger is fine incase a check develops.

My post hole digger is sitting in Greensboro so I have to come get that regardless of my "want" to hit bombay so I will be making a trip! I will get ahold of you and plan the run on your schedule and availability:)

[Baxter Smith]

Thanks Ken.
Don’t have any travel plans for the next couple of weeks. Any day of the week is fine.

Found a cutoff that was between 5 and 6 inches long and sliced it to 1.5 on the bandsaw. 179591 179592

Just a cell phone pic under fluorescent lights but you get the idea. Want me to leave them long so you can place your circles, or cut them into squares? I had sealed both ends of the cutoff.

I am roughing out a few HF’s from some of the other cutoff’s but there will be leftovers. If you would like some of different dimensions, just give me the numbers.