What Laquer to use?

[Alan Wright]

Hi all. Hopefully this is an easy question. I'm a hobbyist who generally makes mission furniture. I have a Mohawk stain formula that I've developed and which I like. I have been finishing with cans of "Cabot" spray laquer that I get at Lowes, and I've been pleased with the finish, but the cans are expensive and it's a tedius process.

I just ordered the Earlex 5000 (five minutes ago) from Highland Woodworking. My intention is to use it to spray laquer exclusively. MY question is what kind of laquer do I buy? Is it catalyzed, pre-catalyzed, not catalyzed... should I use oil or water based. I'd love to find a water based product, but then should I be concerned about rasing the grain of the wood after I've spent all that time sanding down to 400 grit. I tend to be a creatur of habit where finishing is concerned. Once I find what works, I stick with it. Can anyone help steer me in the right direction?:cool:

Thanks

Alan

[Casey Gooding]

Well, if it's oil based, it's not lacquer. There are so many out there. There are a lot of finishes out there and some can be very complicated. My advise is go to a paint store you really like and trust and ask what they recommend.

[Rob Sack]

Well, if it's oil based, it's not lacquer. There are so many out there. There are a lot of finishes out there and some can be very complicated. My advise is go to a paint store you really like and trust and ask what they recommend.

Well maybe or maybe not "oil based," but conventional lacquers are certainly solvent based, and solvents are oil based. As far as conventional lacquers are concerned, you have "regular" lacquer, so to speak, and pre-catalyzed lacquer, which sprays pretty much the same, but is slightly more expensive, and is harder when dry and more durable. For solvent based lacquers, I prefer Chem-Craft. They spray beautifully and have great customer support. As far as water based "lacquers" are concerned, I don't know if there are any true water based lacquers, or the finishes are just called that. Anyway, for water based finishes, Centurion water based conversion varnish is a one part water based finishes that sprays right out of the can pretty much like conventional lacquers and is extremely durable, as well as can be applied over oil based stains, as long as the stains are completely dry. I would also be careful about relying on paints stores for wood finishing advise. At least around here, the paint stores are knowledgeable about house paint, but their understanding of wood finishing is minimal. I use a supply house that specializes in automotive paints and wood finishing products. Their knowledge of the materials they sell is terrific and they have been a great source for purchasing and applying wood finishes.

[Tony Bilello]

I use Gemini Coatings that I get from Woodfinishersdepot.com. I use mostly pre-cat lacquer. I sometimes use Post-Catalyzed lacquer for table tops. Nitrocellulose which was king of the furniture industry for a long time has finally fell to the newer finishes like pre-cat and post cat lacquers and conversion varnishes. Pre-Cat is far superior to nitrocellulose, as a mater of fact, nitrocellulose lacquer is no longer recommended as a furniture finish. Post-Cat is superior to Pre -Cat but i dont like applying it. Dont know why, but I just dont. I always use a vinyl sealer first.
I use aliphatic urethane for outdoor stuff.
I have the Earlex 5000 Spray Station Pro.

[Conrad Fiore]

Tony,
Do you have a spraybooth, or do you spray outside? I think that might be an important point to you can make to Alan about spraying solvent based lacquer coatings.

[Larry Fox]

Tony,
Do you have a spraybooth, or do you spray outside? I think that might be an important point to you can make to Alan about spraying solvent based lacquer coatings.

+1 Spraying changes the game in terms of what you need for safety and all that. Lacquer thinner is pretty flamable stuff and from what I understand not very good for you.

[Tony Bilello]

Tony,
Do you have a spraybooth, or do you spray outside? I think that might be an important point to you can make to Alan about spraying solvent based lacquer coatings.

I have sprayed indoors without a spray booth hundreds of times in the past. Solvent based finishes are flamable and explosive. It is a safety issue but common sense ought to tell you how safe you are or are not. I even spray in customers garages and feel perfectly safe. I have a friend that sprays in his shop in the winter time with a wood burning stove very near by. The main thing is plenty of ventillation to exhaust the fumes out. Always turn on your fans before you start spraying and dont turn them off for at least 30 minutes after you finish spraying. Keep your mixing area away from any source of ignition. If the area you are working in starts to get foggy, stop immediately. Can you blow yourself up? Yes. Is it likely? No, unless of course you are a complete idiot.
Also be aware tha spraying shellac can be just as dangerous. Organic Vapor Respirators are a must, even with plenty of ventillation.
The primary thing to consider if you are planning on spraying solvent based finishes is how confined or contained will your vapors be? A garage with cross ventillation should not be a problem. Would I spray in a basement shop - NO, not a chance. Even if it had a booth? Probably not unless it was really well thought out and well made.
I am not familiar with water based finishes so I would strongly advise that you really read the MSDS. Just because it may not be flamable dont necessarily mean it is not a health hazard.

[Phil Phelps]

Tony, isn't aliphatic urethane deadly? Isn't there a special respirator system that should be used while spraying it? People should read their home owners policy before spraying flamable products. If it's against city code to do so and an accident happens, your insurance may not pay for damages. I doubt the fire dept. would be happy with someone spraying lacquer or other flamable solvents in their garage without proper equipment. I'm just saying....

[Tony Bilello]

Tony, isn't aliphatic urethane deadly? Isn't there a special respirator system that should be used while spraying it?
I'm sure it can be. It has all the stuff in it to eventually make organs fail. I am not a medical person but I don't see it as much worse than lacquers. Always wear an organic vapor respirator and that's only a small part of personal protection. The biggest safety concern is breathing fresh air and not filtered air. This is where the ventillation/cross ventillation comes in.
People should read their home owners policy before spraying flamable products. If it's against city code to do so and an accident happens, your insurance may not pay for damages. I doubt the fire dept. would be happy with someone spraying lacquer or other flamable solvents in their garage without proper equipment. I'm just saying....

I agree 100% with the home owners policy thing, city codes, etc. I'm sure the same holds true for storing a gas can and lawn mower in the garage. But that comparison is still no excuse for lacking safety concerns. For some people that want to spray solvent base lacquer there may not be any other option As far as a garage goes, I cant imagine any better ventillation as having a double garage door up all the way and a back door open with exhaust fans. The legality is a separate issue. Like I said earlier, working with shellac is not all that much safer.
The OP was a lacquer based question and not a safety based question. I merely stated how it can be done safely. He has not mentioned what kind of shop it is and where it is. You are assuming it is in his garage. I didn't assume that, I just mentioned it as a passing note that is has been done. When I have sprayed in other peoples garages, there was absolutely no odor in the adjoining house. With all doors up/open it is the closest thing to spraying outside. When in my own booth, I still wear an organic vapor respirator for protection. I keep harping on the "organic vapor" type because rarely will that ever be the stock cartridge in a new respirator.

I think you and some of the others on here might want to inquire as to what he intends to use as his spray area and then talk him out of solvent based lacquers. That would be a good re-direct on this same post. I answered the original question as posted and I have my leanings toward solvent based lacquers for several reasons but I can not defend it from a fire safety or health point of view.

Regards

Tony B

[Howard Acheson]

>>>> but conventional lacquers are certainly solvent based, and solvents are oil based.

Not all solvents are oil based. Some are made from petroleum oil products that that doesn't make the resulting finish "oil based". Oil based in finishing products mean a finish that is made as a combination of a resin and a drying oil. For most finishes, the drying oil is linseed oil. In come cases it is tung oil or soya oil. Those are the oils referred to in "oil based finishes". Mineral spirits are added as a thinner to make the finish easier to apply. They completely evaporate and do not contribute in any way to the performance of the finish.

Lacquer is made in an entirely different process and is consider as and referred to as a "solvent finish".

[Dave Gaul]

Is there a reason no one has mentioned EM6000 from Target Coatings? Never used it myself, but it is usually well thought of here on SMC, and I plan to try it on my next major project...

[Alan Wright]

Thanks for the comments. Especially Dave. I did some more research on target coatings EM6000. I even called Jeff over there and talked with him. I ordered a couple gallons and will give it a try. Alan