Kitchen cabinets - buy or build?

[Jake Elkins]

Hi everyone -
I don't really post much, but I read these boards (nearly) everyday. I had a question that I hoped I could get some advice on.

As a hobbyist, I like to build furniture, and have been doing so for years. A potential next "big job" might be re-doing our horrible, absolutely horrible, kitchen cabinets. I am a bit apprehensive about this for a few reasons:

1. With a few minor exceptions, I have never really worked any case-goods type projects, and even more rarely use plywood. I am sure that I can readily learn, but I am a little trigger-shy about starting such an invasive task without any prerequisite experience. The closest I have come is some raised-panel wainscoting. As a side-question, does anyone make large-scale solid-wood cabinets anymore (ie no plywood)?

2. I tend to take a long time in making things. As my MO, I also tend to over-build everything (draw-bored child's table and chairs, for eg). Therefore, I fear that this project might easily escalate and take many, many months to complete.

3. Building particularities aside, I also have some serious time constraints that limit my shop time (young kids and med school). I worry that this, in addition to point #2 might mean that my wife's kitchen will be dysfunctional for way too long. I might get 1-2 hours/day in the shop and sometimes (partial) weekends.

4. Financial considerations. I long ago realized that making furniture is not a way to save money -- I consider myself lucky if I can build something for only twice what it would cost to buy new. But I love doing it. Up in my neck of the woods, I get 4/4 rough between $2.50 (oak) to about $5 (walnut and cherry). Again, I never bought any, but it seems that furniture grade 3/4 plywood comes to about 80/sheet at hardwood retailers. I like to have quality, and I don't mind paying for it, but there is definitely a limit.

5. Tools: While I probably have the "best shop on the block", it is pretty modest by comparison to some on this board. I have all the regular stuff (TS, BS, lathe, DP, jointer, planer, DC, mortiser, etc). The only area I feel like I have a deficit is my jointer (6", I would love, but cannot afford a 12"). No shaper, and only a 2.25HP router with a table. I usually raise panels on the TS.

Anyways, these are my concerns. For whatever reason, I don't feel the emotional bond to making kitchen cabinets that I feel for other projects. In other words, I am not entirely opposed to buying some. So, my question is, can decent cabinets be made cheaper than buying them? If so, given the constraints above, would this be worth it? In terms of specs, pretty simple solid-wood design (solid meaning no chip/particle board, plywood permissible) with raised doors and decent, but not necessarily top-of-the-line, hardware. I would probably use walnut if I were to build, and a darker stained oak/maple if I were to buy. Also, any advice, along the lines of words-of-wisdom, suggested books, etc. would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks -
Jake

[Van Huskey]

For a short answer if I were building a kitchen today I would look hard at using Ikea (I know but search the forum about them) boxes and build my doors. I think this is the best quick/"cheap" way to make really nice looking and functional cabinets. I know it "bends" your construction specs but I think you might be surprised. Obviously lots of cabinet makers use plywood but it is extremely rare and expensive to see solid wood boxes.

[Victor Robinson]

+1 on Ikea boxes + custom fronts. I promise you will not be disappointed with their hardware (Blum). We used this strategy on our kitchen remodel about two years ago and it worked wonderfully. It's cost-effective, efficient, and still allows you to put a custom, high-quality touch on the most important aesthetic part - the fronts.

I know many woodworkers despise Ikea, and for good reason as much of their stuff is so-so. But I can also guarantee that most of those guys haven't spent quality-time up close with the kitchen system.

[Gary Kvasnicka]

Jake,

I am in the middle of a kitchen remodel. Take a look at http://www.cabinetstogo.com/home.asp .
They have a showroom about 10 minutes from my house, the wife decided on shaker maple. We ordered on a Sunday afternoon I picked up that Thursday. I had them assembled and installed in one weekend. Might be what you are looking for no particleboard.
I figured I could not buy the materials and hardware for the price they charged.

[Steve LaFara]

I went through the same decision process a few years ago. I wanted to make them and wife said I would take too long. Bottom line is that we bought and I don't really regret that as it would have taken me probably 5 months of weekends to make them and I really, really did not look forward to finishing all of those doors and drawers. That's my least favorite part of this hobby.

Hind sight tells me that I would have had a big problem with staging area as case goods take up a lot of space! The process to build them is pretty straight forward and if you are looking at high end cabinets you can save a ton of $$$. Ours were in the neighborhood of $23K and I could have made them for around $5k-$7. Yep, alot of cabinets and they are all custom cherry wood. I fear that if I had taken on the project, my wife would be enjoying them by herself now as she would have kicked me out before they were finished. :)

[Brad Shipton]

What Steve points out about the timeline is the biggest concern you should have. I am about to start my own kitchen project and it sounds like we both might suffer from some similar problems. There have been two recent threads where home owners just finished their projects. One took three years, and another was 18 months. Unless you are trying to build some wonderful kitchen design, I would seriuosly look at your options. I have been working on my design for a while now, and if you are detail kinda guy, things can get crazy when you start digging thru catalogs.

Brad

[Erik Christensen]

I will argue for building them yourself. If you use pre-finished ply you should be able to get the cases built & hung in a few weekends. The counter tops, sink, fixtures & appliances can then go in and you have a functional kitchen for the most part. Build the drawer boxes next & things are fully functional. The doors & drawer fronts can take however long to get the finished look but the kitchen is usable so management is happy.

[Jay Brewer]

Hi Jake, Im a cabinetmaker, its all I build. You said you can work on it 1 to 2 hours a day. I can tell you I have on average 150 hours in a kitchen start to finish. My part time guy will have 50 to 75 hours. So around 200 hours total.

Im not going to get into all the other factors involved in building cabinets. The first thing you need to answer to your self is can you process 10 to 15 sheets of plywood square and accurate, and can you build a box that is square? If you are not sure of this, please save yourself the agravasion that is sure to insue. I am not being a smart you know what. If your box isnt square, the rest of the job will be a nightmare, especially the installation.

What ever you decide, please build/buy the cabinets before you rip your kitchen out.

[Karl Brogger]

What Jay said.

Also, I started my business, (cabinet shop), with less. It just takes longer is all.

In your position I'd buy doors, panel'd ends, and drawers, but that's just me. I'd hunt down a local shop and have them whip them up. The boxes are the easy fast part, its all the other stuff that takes time.

[Van Huskey]

What Jay said.

Also, I started my business, (cabinet shop), with less. It just takes longer is all.

In your position I'd buy doors, panel'd ends, and drawers, but that's just me. I'd hunt down a local shop and have them whip them up. The boxes are the easy fast part, its all the other stuff that takes time.

I think this is certainly one way to approach it and even the way a LOT of "custom" cabinet builders approach it today. But, from my point of view as a hobby woodworker if I am going to build any part of a cabinet system it is going to be the aesthetic part. I want my craftsmanship (or lack thereof) to be front and center, not hidden behind someone's fronts. I would feel comfortable telling someone I built the cabinets if I used prebuilt boxes but would not if I hadn't built the faces.

In the end if someone does not WANT to build the cabinets then they should buy them. A kitchen is a lot of work and can be frustrating especially on the first attempt and if one is doing it just to save money they likely will not be happy about their choice to build them very early in the process.

[David Prince]

I usually figure 10 hours per cabinet. If you have 20 cabinets, then you would have 200 hours. That should give you an idea of how long it takes to put this together. Now, that is based on experience with building a kitchen. If you lack that experience, then there will be some added time for your learning curve. (This is in line with what Jay posted)

There are many books out there if you are looking for a basic kitchen cabinet building type of book. This month's wood magazine has an article about building basic cabinets. That builder chose dowels. I like biscuits and pocket screws if possible.

You appear to have the tools necessary to build them.

You could build the boxes and buy the doors. (either prefinished or unfinished). If prefinished, you could just finish your boxes to match. You could also build the doors.

You could probably get by with B2 plywood and still end up with a great looking kitchen and the sheets are a lot cheaper than A2. (a lot of A2 has MDF core) I personally don't care for the MDF core for cabinet boxes, but use it for panels.

Take into consideration other work involved with gutting your old kitchen. Sheetrock, paint, trim, patching, flooring, electrical, plumbing, etc.

Build all of your cabinets and countertops in your shop and have them ready to go before you gut your kitchen. That will limit the "out of service" time of your kitchen.

I don't give a lot of affection to a kitchen cabinet project because many times people change kitchens after 25 or so years. Those cabinets could end up in a shop or garage for further usage. Build a great bookcase or curio and that could potentially be handed down through generations. The kitchen probably wouldn't.

But, if I were in your place, I would build them!

[Jim O'Dell]

I built the cabinets at our other house. LOML said never again. I read where you build the cabinets, then hang them at one time. I thought I had a better way, ripped out the kitchen and then basically did built ins. Working 50 hour plus weeks in retail, I had a day off in the middle of the week, and Sunday. I worked my rear off until midnight many nights. Started on July 4th weekend, got the kitchen done and the tops on the day before Thanksgiving. No doors yet. And Thanksgiving was at our house that year!!!
I think I will get to redo the kitchen here at the new house. BUT!!! It will be built and finished before anything is torn out. I plan to use pocket hole construction, and then knock down the boxes for storage until I get them all built, to save space. All it takes is money. Jim.

[johnny means]

One option is Ecabinets. This is a system that offers free cabinet design software then networks you with a local shop to produceyour parts. This gives you Ikea ease of build with more control of your specs. Parts will come ready to assemble in whatever material you choose.

[Brad Sperr]

We just got done with a kitchen remodel, and I would vote for buying your cabinets. If you're planning to do most of the remodel work yourself, then you've got plenty on your plate without having to build the cabinets.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I don't think building your own cabinets is such a money saver either, even if you ignore the labor you put into it. Decent quality stock cabinets are fairly inexpensive these days. Just buying the hardware from a retail source may make you second guess your decision to build your own.

On the other hand, it sure is nice to show folks what you made when they visit your home. But, that's just my ego talking. :)

Jeff :)

[Chip Lindley]

...As a side-question, does anyone make large-scale solid-wood cabinets anymore (ie no plywood)?
Thanks -
Jake

Better case goods are plywood. Cabinet-grade plywood is much better (and lighter) than MDF or particle board! Most raised-panel ends on exposed uppers and lowers of nice, upscale Big Box Store cabinets are overlays attached to the plywood box. Nice for looks, but it is only a facade. I doubt you will find "solid-wood" cabinets but from a high-end cabinet shop. Perhaps the Amish, or a small independent, part-time cabinet maker (like ME!) who enjoys the challenge of the work, at the expense of maximum profit.

For the prices custom cabinet shops and big box stores charge for their cabinets, I dare say you can save some money IF you are looking at solid wood, raised-panel doors, and end panels. But, if you are looking at painted, faux-raised-panel MDF doors and casework, probably not--especially as cheaply as the Chinese can be made to work! Once you have made your own kitchen, or parts of it, you will gain a new attachment to it. After all, the kitchen is the center of activity in many homes, and you had a great part in providing a newer, nicer kitchen space.

If you hate your entire kitchen layout, eventually a total gut is the only way to go. But, if you are fairly satisfied with your layout, cabinet refacing is the least invasive of all solutions! Solid wood faceframes can be refinished by painting, sanding and staining, or veneering over them with same wood as the new doors. New raised panel doors and drawer fronts installed. If your drawers and shelves are flimsy, they can be replaced with something more livable too. Dovetailed drawers are fun to make and very sturdy. Crappy drawer slides can be replaced now with full-extension units which can be re-used later.

Besides cabinets, there is countertop to consider. A new surface adds as much as new cabinets do. A great upscale look can be achieved using granite or quartz squares rather than expensive slab. Or, ceramic mosaic tile can add a very nice look, with a hardwood edge to match the cabinetry.

Enough ceramic or travertine tile for a kitchen floor won't set you back much. Neither will tongue & groove hardwood. You can wait until last to do the floor!

A facelift would be a great learning experience to get you ready for that whole new kitchen later on. After making and installing your first kitchen-full of raised-panel doors, new drawers, and tiling a countertop, all that remains to tackle is casework next time around. The learning curve will be pretty flat.

Just food for thought! Best of Luck!

[Rob Vicelli]

HI Jake, I am currently in the process of building our kitchen cabinets. It does take time!!! I started off with a 6 ft hutch and the wife really like it so on we go. building for me does not take to long, it is the finishing for me (Wife choose chocolate finish..takes about 7 steps). Anyway my approach is to complete the uppers completely and store in basement. Then on to the lowers, when they are finished we will do the install. I am using pocket screw construction and sommerfeld tounge and groove. I still take pride in the project even though is is just cabinets (no disrespect to cabinet guys, I could never build them for someone else), you know that feeling when you have guests over and they say 'You built that". That makes ya feel good :)

[John TenEyck]

I really liked Jim Topin's book on Traditional Kitchen Cabinets, or something like that, even though I built a modern design kitchen. Think long and hard about whether or not you want to be schlepping around dozens of sheets of plywood or whatever. You're talking a ton of materials, or more. I built my kitchen, all 27 cabinets. Never again. If I every do another I'll have someone else build the boxes and I'll just make the part that shows. It took me about 2 or 3 months of nights and weekends to make the boxes and drawers - stacked everywhere in my basement. And as much as I enjoy making furniture, there was little pleasure in making those boxes. But I did enjoy using them w/o any doors or drawer fronts - nice easy access - until I got those built and installed - six months later. I came away from this project with real respect for guys who do this for a living - and glad I don't have to.

[Ray Newman]

Jake: after reading your initial post, it sounds to me like you have stated the reasons why you do not want to make your kitchen cabinets, but you just have not realized it yet.

[Mark Blatter]

I suggest that biggest issues you will have are finishing and hardware. You likely do not have the proper tools needed for installing all the glides, hinges, etc. like a shop has, so it will take longer and you will pay 2 - 3 x what they will pay. You will also likely need to brush on the finish coats, unless you are good at spraying and have the room, tools, etc.

I spent the last two years running a custome shop and I believe unless you really know what you are doing, and the time it will take, you will regret the decision to do it on your own. I know your wife will unless she is really.....I mean really patient.

Two suggestions.

1. Contact a custom shop and see about them building them for you, then you installing them. That would save you some money and still be part of the process. Also, depending on where you live, I know many custom shops are begging for work. You could likey get the job for 20% less than you could two years ago.

2. If you are comfortable in finishing work, find a custom shop with a CNC and have them design and cut out the parts. Take all of it home and assemble it all yourself.

Good luck whichever way you decide.

[frank shic]

the whole point of me getting into woodworking was so i could build kitchen cabinets. i built face frame cabinets using advice from danny proulx's and udo schmidt's books. this time around i'm going to build beaded inset - good luck getting these made cheaply by a cabinetmaker lol. the kreg beaded face frame jig arrived in the nick of time! ikea's kitchen cabinets assemble quickly and install easily as a lower-cost lower-labor alternative. the hardware as a previous poster mentioned is blum who manufactured special hardware just for ikea.

[Glenn Vaughn]

We finished adding a wall of cabinets a few months ago. All except 2 cabinets are hung on the wall. We did a pantry with roll-out shelves and a broom closet. Everything is solid wood except the back of the pantry and bottoms of the roll-out shelves. We spent about 5 months working part time on the project. I had no idea of what was involved in building cabinets and just built them in what seemed to me to be logical.. No nails or screws - all dowels (love the DowelMax). Had no issues with squaring the cases. I learned quite a lot from the process. I had never done routing or jointing and many other things that were involved. The total cost was probably more than it would have cost for off the shelf cabinets but they are what the wife wanted and are from wood that could not be found in finished cabinets (Coffeetree). A large part of the cost was powertools that I did not have.

The waste factor using rough lumber was fairly high - around 40%. We could have done better but I was a bit picky about grain matching. It is difficult to tell how many boards are in most of the glue-ups. The plus side is I averaged less than $2.00 a bdft for the wood. The down side is I cannot get any more 4/4 here in Colorado and will have to resaw 8/4 for the next project - veneering the old cabinets to match and making new doors to match as well.

[Mike Goetzke]

I too am currently building kitchen cabinets for our house. My job started last March and I'm guessing I have another 3-4 months left. Ours was a large remodel job - my wife wanted one great room from our kitchen, dining room, and living room. I had to remove several walls (one structural). Then I had to redo lots of electrical, HVAC, and plumbing. I finally got to the cabinets in November. I have an "L" 20'x12' and a 10'x4' island. I'd say I'm about 1/2 done with the cabinets. Like others said planning is essential. I work out of a garage shop and you cut ply for the boxes and in my case I had to topcoat them (prefinished ply is more than 2x unfinished in my area). Then face frames and assembly. I made all the uppers on one wall first then the lowers. I really like woodworking so I'm enjoying it but wish things were going quicker. I planned for the job months ahead of time and purchased a few books to help. I also bought an inexpensive cabinet design/cutlist program called CabinetPlanner. I have also consulted a few very experienced cabinet builders on the forums and they have been very helpful. If asked if I would do it again I would say yes but I probably would hire help for the rough construction so I could concentrate on the cabinets.

Good Luck!

[Bruce King]

When I built my house my big tools were in storage so building my cabinets was not an option but I did the install.


If you decide to buy them you should look into unassembled cabinets fot lots of savings.
I did not know about these at the time but have a neighbor that went this route recently.

http://www.instockkitchens.com/unassembled-kitchen-cabinets/info_52.html

http://www.meikitchens.com/parts/pre-assembled.php

[Jim Andrew]

I've built several kitchens, what you need is storage space, so you can build the cabinets before the install. Takes a lot of room to store all the boxes for a decent sized kitchen. I used the jigs from Rockler for hinges and shelf pins, bought the raised panel router set from Freud, and only do square raised panels. No custom shapes. Use the prefinished plywood from Liberty hardwoods, then you only have to finish the fronts and ends and doors, drawer fronts. Very tough finish, and when you put it together, it's done!

[Todd Crawford]

If you have the time - I would recommend building. Nothing like walking past something every day that you're proud of.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?98048-My-first-set-of-cabinets&highlight=

[frank shic]

I've built several kitchens, what you need is storage space, so you can build the cabinets before the install. Takes a lot of room to store all the boxes for a decent sized kitchen. I used the jigs from Rockler for hinges and shelf pins, bought the raised panel router set from Freud, and only do square raised panels. No custom shapes. Use the prefinished plywood from Liberty hardwoods, then you only have to finish the fronts and ends and doors, drawer fronts. Very tough finish, and when you put it together, it's done!

this is GREAT advice. i almost went insane trying to do the entire tearout, painting and tiling while simultaneously trying to finish and build the kitchen cabinets. i will never do that again lol

[Jake Elkins]

Thanks everyone for the advice and responses. This is just about what I expected to hear, that these things take time, take space, take money and take some dedication. Time I sorta have, space can be found, however, money is not flowing forth, but I look at this more as an investment (of which I have done much to our house already), as opposed to my furniture which I view as potential heirlooms. I will probably take the advice of some here, and install a hybrid, outsourcing some of the build, and doing some of my own. I just need to do some more research, so thanks again for all the suggestions. This hobby is at times almost a curse - we needed a small, functional bookshelf about a year ago - now the #719 Stickley double door bookcase is still being built. I am sure many on here know how this goes. Thanks again for all the advice.

Jake

[Andrew Gibson]

My thoughts are that I would never attempt in unless I had a place to store all the boxes while I built them all.
As much as I would not want to I think I would have to break out the router and use it for most of the joinery.

My plan is to one day go a totally different route with my kitchen... think Individual pieces of furniture... multiple stations with different counter surfices... nothing built in. I have a lot of design work to do for this one... should end up being something no one has ever seen before.

[Lee Schierer]

I went through the same decision process a few years ago. I wanted to make them and wife said I would take too long. Bottom line is that we bought and I don't really regret that as it would have taken me probably 5 months of weekends to make them and I really, really did not look forward to finishing all of those doors and drawers. That's my least favorite part of this hobby.

Hind sight tells me that I would have had a big problem with staging area as case goods take up a lot of space! The process to build them is pretty straight forward and if you are looking at high end cabinets you can save a ton of $$$. Ours were in the neighborhood of $23K and I could have made them for around $5k-$7. Yep, alot of cabinets and they are all custom cherry wood. I fear that if I had taken on the project, my wife would be enjoying them by herself now as she would have kicked me out before they were finished. :)

I did the same thing when we remodeled our kitchen. You have to have double the storage area needed for storing the materials and for storing the finished cabinets or you have to live with your kitchen being torn up while you remove and install the cabinets as the new ones are built. We bought high end cabinets and they have performed very well and the rennovation only took a few days, the longest wait was for teh custom fit counter top. LOML was very please with the final design and look.

[Gene Thayer]

Like probably a lot of others in this mental illness/er/hobby, I started accumulating tools & equipment (for my garage shop) under the guise of remodeling my kitchen & saving tons of money. My house is 40 years old & the kitchen was pretty worn out. I've just retired, but in my working life I was on the road 3 - 4 days a week, so only weekends were available for the work. After a lot of planning & research, I decided to reface the existing cabinets & add touches like pull-out shelves, new drawer boxes with full-extension drawer slides, etc. I ended up making all new face frames & cathedral raised panel doors, which turned out great. We sprung for new granite countertops & backsplashes professionally installed. This has taken me about 3 years to complete, my wife is thrilled with the results, and I have a shopfull of great equipment. I most certainly did NOT save any money, but feel I have a kitchen that's unique and exactly what we wanted. If I were to try this today, I'd certainly buy the carcasses from Ikea and build my own face frames & doors and make sure I had plenty of time for the installation.

[Lee Bidwell]

Another vote here for refacing what's existing if possible or for building doors and drawer faces on bought boxes. I'm in a similar situation as you (2 year old son, pregnant wife, postdoctoral fellowship), and refacing is the route I chose. In my case, my wife wanted painted cabinets, so it was easy to just add new doors and drawer fronts. I also enlarged an island and added a raised breakfast bar, in addition to non-woodworking stuff like new tile backsplash and new appliance installs.

From this:

178992178991

To this:
178998178995178996178997

My son was 6 months old when we did this remodel, and we were only without kitchen for about 2 weeks between my tearout and the countertop install. Even 2 weeks is a long time with young kids in the house.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for making things myself. It's just that, of all the things I do in the shop, breaking down plywood and assembing plywood boxes is my least favorite. With limited time, as Van suggested above, I'd rather have my handiwork shown in the form of doors and drawer faces than in cabinet boxes.

Lee
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/misc/pencil.png

[David Gutierrez]

I will argue for building them yourself. If you use pre-finished ply you should be able to get the cases built & hung in a few weekends. The counter tops, sink, fixtures & appliances can then go in and you have a functional kitchen for the most part. Build the drawer boxes next & things are fully functional. The doors & drawer fronts can take however long to get the finished look but the kitchen is usable so management is happy.

Why do not leave the existing kitchen in place and build all the new cabinets. Then demo the kitchen and replace the cabinets? that way you minimize the down time.

[Paul Johnstone]

Hey OP.. Why not make a stand alone cabinet, like an entertainment center, wardrobe, etc.. That will give you a sampling of what you are in for, without a huge commitment. You say you have little experience with plywood projects.

I intend to redo my kitchen, and make all my cabinets out of solid wood. I am sure it will take over a year to completely finish it. I plan on doing about 3 pieces at a time, installing, then doing the next section. I am fortunate that my wife is very patient and supportive of me when I do woodworking. She wants me to do this.

One final point.. You mention that you are in med school now.. Are you sure you are going to be in the area when you graduate? It would really be a nightmare if you graduated, had to relocate, and had only a partially remodeled kitchen done.

[Larry Fox]

If you have time and are so-inclined I vote for build. I did my kitchen back in 2007ish (thread below) and am currently in the planning stages on one for my parent's house. As others have pointed out, it does require an extraordinary amount of time but it is very rewarding. One suggestion I will make though is to do something smaller like a vanity as a "test" to discover the ins and outs of cabinet building. Doing a kitchen is nothing more than building a bunch of small boxes. Some suggestions that I will make that will save you tons of time;

1) Used pre-finished-ply. Can't stress this enough. You do NOT want to be trying to maneuver a spray gun around inside a cabinet or facing 32 * number of sheets * number of coats square feet of finishing.
2) Have someone else make the drawers. Unless you are proposing making really fancy drawers with hand-cut half-blind dovetails you can buy a very good quality drawer to your specs delivered to your door WAY cheaper than you can do it yourself. Drawers like you see in a normal kitchen are commodities and there are shops out there that are setup to make 1,000 an hour. IIRC my kitchen had 19 drawers and I did all the stock prep, machine cutting of dovetails, assembly and finishing. This process took me a month. Save yourself a month!
3) Make sure you have a place to store all this "stuff". Once assembled they take up a lot of space.
4) It would really help to be able to spray and you need to make sure you have space to dry all that stuff you are spraying
5) Plan your work to avoid as many "changeovers" as you can. For me, it was really "expensive" in terms of time to switch from plywood mode to solid wood mode to finish mode back to plywood mode etc. Being more efficient with things like that is one of the key takeaways I had from my project.

It is a very rewarding project.


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?50336-Kitchen-almost-done&highlight=

[Jake Elkins]

If you have time and are so-inclined I vote for build. I did my kitchen back in 2007ish (thread below) and am currently in the planning stages on one for my parent's house. As others have pointed out, it does require an extraordinary amount of time but it is very rewarding. One suggestion I will make though is to do something smaller like a vanity as a "test" to discover the ins and outs of cabinet building. Doing a kitchen is nothing more than building a bunch of small boxes. Some suggestions that I will make that will save you tons of time;

1) Used pre-finished-ply. Can't stress this enough. You do NOT want to be trying to maneuver a spray gun around inside a cabinet or facing 32 * number of sheets * number of coats square feet of finishing.

It is a very rewarding project.


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?50336-Kitchen-almost-done&highlight=

Thanks Larry for this. One question - does using pre-finished ply eliminate (or diminish) the requirement for a sprayer, which I don't have? Fantastic looking kitchen, btw.


One final point.. You mention that you are in med school now.. Are you sure you are going to be in the area when you graduate? It would really be a nightmare if you graduated, had to relocate, and had only a partially remodeled kitchen done.

Paul - this is one of my concerns, for many reasons. I am selfish enough to not like the idea of spending what little time I have building something just to "give" it away later. I plan (hope) to stay here for residency, but that really is not entirely within my control. But the problem I have is that my current kitchen is so horribly awful (I can't stress this enough), that I am sure it will be an eye sore to all but the most ambitious DIYer buyer. When I bought the house, I planned on doing this earlier. I even bought the walnut I was going to use (600bf at about 0.60/bf), but somehow the number of prime boards dwindled significantly in the past few years.

I really like the advice about a stand-alone, smaller project. Hints have been dropped for a pantry for the kitchen, maybe this is a great place to start. Thanks!

[frank shic]

great advice on using prefinished plywood.... if you can get it. i mainly use melamine but when i get ready to do this next kitchen i'll probably be using prefinished plywood. another option for quick drawers is to use a metal box system like blum's metabox or tandembox. they go together quickly, give you more room and install like a charm.

[terry hansen]

I picked the build route, used prefinished ply for boxes, & drawers, cherry for face frame, doors & drawer fronts, since I do the cooking I was able to make it exactly how I wanted. I have since looked at ikea boxes & would go that route if I was moving in less than 5 to 10 years. That said I used pocket screws for cabinet boxes and drawer boxes; really simplified things & you don't see them. Bought a Sommerfield 35mm jig ($100 or so) for euro hinges - best $ I ever spent. Bought Blum hinges, drawer slides, and cabinet feet with levelers from ww hardware in MN. The cost of that stuff adds up fast. I made boxes and hung and set - then took 9 months to do doors drawer fronts etc. would I do it again? Not if I had to pay top $ for hardwood, I got a deal on end run cherry 750 to 1k BDF for $500. Bottom line - draw up plans, price at lowes & Ikea & wherever, price lumber and hardware and pulls & glue and screws - then determine what your time is worth and most importantly what new tools you can justify buying (they don't count in total cost) and how long your significant other will allow an unfinished project. It really isn"t difficult just time consumptive, and you do learn a lot about staging projects and mass construction. Whatever - have fun as it's a hobby not a job.

[Brad Gobble]

I've been building cabs on the side for 6 years now. With an engineering background I am very process driven and recently have been measuring myself closely. To make it worth doing you need 3 things:
1. A quality table saw with a solid fence and enough infeed/outfeed to do sheet rips (17' total)
2. A router lift or shaper that can handle the large bits to make your door profiles
3. Some place to stage ALL completed cabinets prior to installation
On my most recent build of 18 linear feet of upper cabinets built with solid maple doors and shop-grade maple ply carcases it took me 40 hours from the time I carried the first sheet into the shop until the last door handle was installed. I did 3 cabinets total, and added two end-shelves to increase complexity. I finished the cabs natural with water based acrylic-poly using a foam roller for the first 2 coats and brush final.

I work full time for a mega-corporation, so I started this Friday night and was done Tuesday evening. Yes, Monday and Tuesday were long days! I did not use high-end hinges, but used good 'nuff ones from Ebay (avg cost per hinge $1.20; handles were $1) Total cost in materials was $370 (sheet goods, hard wood, fastners, glue, sand paper, and poly).

179052

If you can only work on this 2 hrs a night you must have a shop where you can pick up where you left off... you be at for a year but you'll love the satisfaction. Especially worth it if the activity brings you peace of mind after a tough day of looking at other people's orifices!!

OR you could study more, get done with med school, and then hire this kind of work out while you make high end furniture ....

[Brad Gobble]

Note: the 40 hours includes installation but not clearing of the space to install (had the kids do that ... one good thing to having teenagers!)

Meant to add: I looked in to the IKEA stuff ... the gang is right about their hardware, good stuff. I am researching some of the wholesale - only flat pack company (cabparts.com, etc) and will post when I know more.

[robert micley]

do not do this if you are in med school. do a sinle furniture project-- case closed

[Steve Griffin]

Excellent advice here, so I'll keep just comment to the "prefinished" interiors.

Since I spray my cabinets and assemble them ahead of time, I find the "pre-finished" ply everyone is jumping up and down about to be no advantage at all. Takes seconds to spray the interiors with the face frame. It's definitely faster than masking off interiors. Drawer banks only need partial interior finishing anyway.

Even easier than ply is to use melamine. If I use "maple" or "almond" melamine, I don't even worry about overspray. If the interior gets a little rough with finish, take 10 seconds and buff it with steel wool....

Now if you choose to prefinish face frames before attaching to the boxes, then using prefinished ply or melamine makes more sense. I find this method has two downsides--besides the faceframes being awkward to handle, I loose precision with my custom fit inset doors. I like to fit the doors after the faceframe is locked into place on the box.

And yes, if you got the tools and time, you should do your own kitchen!

-Steve

[Roger Bullock]

You have been given some pretty good woodworking opinions here so I'll put another spin on things by giving a real estate investment opinion. The first question I ask myself before making any final decision when it come to the house is "Will this help in the resale of my house and if so will I get a return on my investment?" You purchased the house with the existing cabinets, would someone else? What would a prospective home buyer looking for an identical home like yours expect to find as far as cabinets go? If you're not sure, contact a real estate agent and ask them about resale or even go view other homes to see what buyers are looking for in the homes they purchase. If you find that replacing your cabinets will help you sell your home faster and for a good return on your investment, by all means consider the build or purchase option.

[Jeff Monson]

I cant think of a better reason to expand your woodworking horizons, I'd build no question about it. My 1st kitchen was about 4 years ago, it was in a house we thought was our last. Well the lolm decided 2 years later it was time for a bigger place. The major selling point in our house was the kitchen.

When I started, I made a couple of uppers to see if I could handle it, I just kept going from there on out. Finished all the cabinets and then demo'd the kitchen. Took me 1 week to do the demo and install the cabinets. I have done 3 kitchens since and they get a little easier every time.

Here's my 1st.

179110179111

[David Giles]

Put down that router and back away from the table saw. View your life as a balance of competing objectives and tradeoffs. List them in order of importance and the answer to your question will become clear.

[frank shic]

beautiful job, jeff. how long did the corner cabs take you? would you build them again?

[fRED mCnEILL]

We redid our kitchen 6 years ago. It included taking out a 1/2 wall between the kitchen and a small family room(to create a bigger kitchen/great room.We also put in hardwood floors and new lighting. I built all the cabinets before hand over the winter and as they were finished we stored them in the living room/dining room. When they were ready we started demo on the old kitchen. Had the neighbor boys tear up the old floor-took a couple of hours. Also had a friend spend a couple of days helping to remove the wall and put in the hardwood floor. etc. Had an electrician do a couple of days work and a drywall guy do a days work. The rest I did myself. The kitchen was out of commission for exactly one month. We used a temporary countertop for a couple of weeks while waiting for granite counter tops. The cabinets were plywood boxes with 3/4 overlay doors. I sprayed the inside with lacquer. I bought the birch hardwood from a local sawmill ($1 per b/f)WE SAVED A TON!! I compared the cost to Ikea and mine were WAY cheaper but way better. Full extension blum undermount drawers, solid apple drawers, toe-kick drawers and a host of other one of a kind unique things that you don't usually find even in the highest end kitchens. Asked my wife today if she still loves her kitchen as much and she still raves about it. The one thing we didn't do at the time was get an induction cooktop(already bought an electric ) but we fixed that a couple of months ago.

[Phil Gaudio]

I built a set about 10 years ago: I do remember saying something like "I'll never do that again". Having said that, it is doable. I decided I would have to build a prototype cabinet first, which would allow me to prove to myself that I had the skills to produce a respectable end product. My prototype later became my router table. I chose euro style cabinets, as I thought they would be easier for an amateur, and I am glad I did. The other thing I did was standardize the design of the cabs. to the extent possible: I made 4 identical base cabinet modules that housed 3 identical drawers each: improves efficiency when you can get into more of a "production mode" and create multiple copies, rather than having each assembly be unique. Then I built the cabinets in what I called campaigns: one campaign was the identical base cabinets, one was the drawer boxes, one was the drawer fronts, etc. It can be done, but you definitely need a strategy, and it helps tremendously if you are "organized". Here is pic of my prototype:

179377

[Bill Dufour]

I have to ask why does everyone say build new cabinet cases these days? I understand the time appeal of rip out the old and drop the new boxes in place. But in say 1960 or earlier the cabinets would have been built in a shop and assembled on site and half the structure would be the existing walls. All they really are is a face frame and some dividing plywood front to back. Is there something wrong with that method of construction? Seems like separate cases require about 50% more plywood. Or is it just because a house walls are so out of square.
Of course I do think it looks cheap when the back of a cabinet is just a painted plaster wall instead of wood.

[Mel Fulks]

Bill, my thinking is that the old cabinets that you described will be back when TV screens return to oval shape. I also think metal cabinets will soon be hot again.

[Bill Dufour]

Bill, my thinking is that the old cabinets that you described will be back when TV screens return to oval shape. I also think metal cabinets will soon be hot again.

Hey I lived in a duplex with sheet metal cabinets. They were in pretty good shape for being 50 years old. But the sheet metal slides wore out on the most used drawers and no easy way to replace.
Bill D

[Brian Holcombe]

Work everything out style wise with everyone whose input matters long before you get started. Design on the fly is super difficult and adds a lot of stress to a project. So plan every inch before you take anything apart or buy materials.

[Brad Shipton]

2011 thread.

[Peter Kelly]

Hit and run one-time spam poster.