Byrd vs. standard helical

[Todd Leback]

Hi all,
I'm looking to upgrade my current planer to a 20" with some sort of spiral cutter. I'm looking at Jet, Grizzly (I own some Grizzly tools and have been pleased with them), and Powermatic. While pricey, the Powermatic does come with the Byrd head. Is it really that much better than the standard helical cutters that comes with the other two? I work with a lot of figured wood. With the Byrd, would I still be using my drum sander? How about with the standard helical head.

Thanks,

Todd

[Lance Norris]

Todd, Welcome. I have the Grizzly head in my G1021x and a Byrd in my Jet Jointer. I see no difference, and reading past posts here at the Creek, most feel the same way I do, there is really no difference in quality, cut quality and longevity.

[Kerry Kling]

There is an excellent in depth article in the new Feb Popular Woodworking magazine which covers the pros and cons. What I got from it... it's a wash between the Grizzly and the other helical's design's.

Here is a link (http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/editorsblog/The+Changing+Of+The+Cutterhead.aspx) to the mag and a video on how to change out your cutterhead.

I recently bought a Grizzly jointer with a spiral head and it is a big improvement. Cleaner cut, quieter, easier push through.

[Todd Leback]

So I guess that raises the question of Jet v. Grizzly. I see that Grizzly has two 20" models with the spiral head (the G0454Z for 2395 and the G1033X for the same price as the Jet). Does anyone have any experience with any of these three models. The amazon reviews of the Grizzly planers haven't been that great, but by the same token I just purchased a Rigid palm router on the basis of their amazon reviews and have been pretty underwhelmed.

Todd

[Brian Kincaid]

Todd, Welcome. I have the Grizzly head in my G1021x and a Byrd in my Jet Jointer. I see no difference, and reading past posts here at the Creek, most feel the same way I do, there is really no difference in quality, cut quality and longevity.

I have a Grizz planer with Grizz spiral, and Grizz jointer with Byrd. The difference in quality, performance, and price is a wash, except that Byrd is made in USA (and no cosmolene!).
-Brian

[Josh Rudolph]

So I guess that raises the question of Jet v. Grizzly. I see that Grizzly has two 20" models with the spiral head (the G0454Z for 2395 and the G1033X for the same price as the Jet). Does anyone have any experience with any of these three models. The amazon reviews of the Grizzly planers haven't been that great, but by the same token I just purchased a Rigid palm router on the basis of their amazon reviews and have been pretty underwhelmed.

Todd

Todd,

I have the G0454 and just did the spiral upgrade myself. I would highly recommend the G0454Z. I have not had any problems with the G0454 and have been using it consistently since April of 07. I looked at the Jet model when I was considering purchasing the planer, I could not find any real reason to buy the Jet over the Grizzly.

My philosophy on larger tools now-a-days is that most all of them are made over seas and some of them in the same factories. You really can't choose them based on their name any more. You really need to weigh all of the options and decide which is best for you. Both Jet and Grizzly have proclaimed customer service, so it really boils down to who works best for you.

Josh

[C Scott McDonald]

Thanks for the Link to the video. I really like Glen Hueys videos. Clear and concise.

[Stephen Cherry]

Is the byrd head steel instead of aluminum?

[Van Huskey]

The difference in quality, performance, and price is a wash, except that Byrd is made in USA (and no cosmolene!).
-Brian

One thing to note as Brian pointed out is that if you buy a jointer or planer with a Byrd head a significant amount of the purchase price is for an American made product. That means more to some than others.

[John Morrison60]

The Byrd head is steel.

[mreza Salav]

don't own any of the two but ....
The "spiral" versions and the Byrd are different in that in the spiral ones all those little carbide knives are hitting the wood perpendicular to the feed direction, so basically they are like many little small carbide knives in the same setting as the traditional one whereas in the Byrd head they hit the wood in a skew angle (their shapes are also slightly different; they are not exactly square). So "in theory", they should do a better job in figured wood. But as stated above, many people don't notice any different in quality.

[Chip Lindley]

It all depends upon your work methods...




If you have a stationary drum sander or wide belt sander, the planer width and HH becomes less important.



...My approach for my new shop is probably odd, 12" jointer and 15" planer. The one "loss" I have is the ability to plane wide glueups, but I have a 38" sander for those. If I was willing to pay the price of a 20" planer with a helical head AND segmented infeed rollers then I would probably have one, but we are talking a LOT more money than the planers we are talking about.
The bottom line is there will be no clear opinion on this because all of us work differently and view the economic costs differently.

These guys say it all. I am not Anti-Shelix by any means. Helical carbide cutterheads do have their positive attributes. A wide planer with helical head would probably take most of the heartbreak out of surfacing wide glueups, but never 100%. Perhaps much less sanding would be needed, but still needed to prepare panels for finishing.

Concerning knives, I learned early-on that 12"-wide glueups for butcher block cutting boards were a crap shoot to come out of my Rockwell planer in decent shape. Isn't it odd that the most interesting grain is also the first to tear out! Making sure grain runs in only one direction gets visually boring and labor intensive. Therefore, a drum sander was my Godsend! My glueups are final-thicknessed on the Woodmaster 38" DDS. Even the lesser Grizzly G1066 DDS served me better than nothing at all. If one of the current open-end sanders can do the job, you are all the better for it.

I am not yet blessed with any helical heads in my shop. So, my philosophy of using the jointer and planer is to straighten and thickness stock for glueup. I do not glue up boards anywhere close to the wide as my 8" jointer anyhow. Thicknessing rough stock jointed on one side makes a 15" planer plenty.

Concerning tabletops, most are wider than 20" anyhow, making a helical planer is a moot point. Glueups wider than 20" must be made in pieces and joined and drum/belt-sanded, or otherwise finished by hand with a ROS, hand plane or scraper.

I would not trust even a helical planer to final-thickness a very nice glueup of beautiful wood. Nor, would I trust a helical to final-thickness raised panels. Some go so far as to say a helical planer can make the need for a drum sander irelevant. I say, "No! Don't count on it!" I am not on a production schedule where time is money! An extra step or three doesn't bother me, as long as the final outcome is pleasing.

[Stephen Cherry]

The Byrd head is steel.

I vote for the Byrd. It seems like steel would be less likely to be damaged.

[Mikail Khan]

My Grizzly head is steel. I has a few rust spots.

My byrd head is black in colour. It appears to have some type of protective coating in the metal.

MK.

[Peter Quinn]

Hi all, With the Byrd, would I still be using my drum sander?
Todd

That all depends on you , but for me, most definitely. Byrd heads leave little scallop marks about as deep as straight knives would leave but a bit more staggered, like thousands of minute scrub plane marks almost. Its not a surface ready for finish, but neither IMO is that which comes off a wide belt, and certainly a drum sander is not the last step in a sanding schedule for any fine work. My drum sander will do nearly 44" with a little witness line in the center that must be messaged out, I simply cannot fit a 44" planer in my basement, so for me I still use my drum sander. And for thin stock or veneer the spiral head isn't any better than straight knives, so the sander still has its place there too.

As to a thickness sander making a spiral a mute point, I don't think so at all. I have seen straight knives take out more than .100" chunks from figured maple or squirrly bubinga, and I sure don't want to make a habit of sanding out that kind of tearout. Oh, and if you aver plan to work with teak, rosewood, ebony or similar abrasive species at all the carbide will be an asset there too. Plus, I don't really enjoy knife changes personally, and sharpening them is sure not cheap. Lots of good reasons to have spiral carbide.

I haven't used the Grizzly heads, but I have used another type of flex knife spiral in a big industrial planer, and I find the Byrd head out performs that when the stock is at its most difficult, like BE maple with heavy figure. I can plane B.E. on slow speed without ANY eyes being torn with the Byrd head, the spiral at work will leave some minor tear out around more fragile eyes that must then be sanded out. Not major, but the shear attack of the shelix seems to offer a benefit in the most extreme cases. Does that make the PM worth the additional cost versus the Grizzly? Too many variable to offer an intelligent answer to that question.

[Philip Rodriquez]

Todd,
I have a Gris 10" sc jointer and a byrd 15" sc planer. They will greatly reduce your tear out... But they do not always eliminate it. However, it will save you a bunch of time at your thickness sander! I usually only have problems with quilted maple... But it is still 75% better than it was before.

[Rick Fisher]

I have the General " Magnum" head.. which I believe is the same as the Laguna Shear tec head.. or very similar.. Interestingly, the insert cutters are typically made by Tigra for both Byrd, Grizz and my head.. There are other brands, but Tigra certainly seems to be dominant.

Having said all that .. I will probably buy the Byrd when I upgrade the Jointer .. It has a Tersa now.. I like that its domestic made..

[Jim Andrew]

When I was looking at Griz 20" planers last year, seems that the extreme series had the Byrd head included.

[Neil Bosdet]

I just replaced my General 20" head with the Byrd. I have a Grizzly jointer with their spiral head. Too soon to make a clear judgement as I need to pass more wood through the planer and maybe make a few adjustments. So far it's good but not a better finish than the Grizzly. I can't believe how quite it is! Hardly makes any noise with a big pass. Unbelievable.

[Jonathan Spool]

The biggest difference between the various brands, and even different models of the same brand in Grizzly's case, is the cost of replacement cutters. I believe a full set of the cutters for the GO454Z will run you over $600, while other Griz heads and the Byrd will cost around half of that. Check before you buy. What may seem a bargain up front may bite you later.

[Todd Leback]

Just ordered the GO454Z last night. With any luck it will be here next week. Now all I have to do is find a buyer for my old planer. Anybody have any ideas of what I should ask for an early 80s model 13" Rockwell (by Invicta)?

Todd

[Don Burch]

Just ordered the GO454Z last night. With any luck it will be here next week. Now all I have to do is find a buyer for my old planer. Anybody have any ideas of what I should ask for an early 80s model 13" Rockwell (by Invicta)?

Todd

Todd,
I am looking at the GO454Z myself right now. How has you experience been?

Don

[Michael Yadfar]

The biggest difference between the various brands, and even different models of the same brand in Grizzly's case, is the cost of replacement cutters. I believe a full set of the cutters for the GO454Z will run you over $600, while other Griz heads and the Byrd will cost around half of that. Check before you buy. What may seem a bargain up front may bite you later.

I own a Grizzly GO453Z 15" Spiral head planer, and I noticed this issue. Byrd replacement cutters are $3.50 each, and Grizzly replacement cutters are a little under $7 each. My 15" planer has 72 cutters, so it would cost about $500 to replace them all, and the 20" obviously has more. Something I couldn't find though is how many cutters the Byrd heads have, because if say the 15" Byrd head has 100 cutters, you aren't saving much then. Something I found though is you can buy cutters from other companies of the same size for less than $2 each. Whether there's a major quality difference or whether it's compatible with the Grizzly head is something to look into though...

This is where I found the aftermarket knives: http://globaltooling.bizhosting.com/products/carbide-insert-knives.html