Question for those of you with other or "real full-time" jobs

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

Over the years I've seen numerous posts from people on this forum who have an engraving (or signage or whatever) business they are either just starting out in, or have had for X number of years. There are often comments relating to working full-time "real" jobs elsewhere so they can make ends meet, receive benefits, or supplement their income until their business becomes more profitable. Several questions come to my mind when reading these posts.

1) Does your "real job" know you have a business?
1a) If yes, are they okay with you having a business or do they see it as a conflict that you may not pay attention to your "real job" and instead attend to your business on their dime?

2) Do you conduct business (email/phone/other) while working at your "real job" and if so, does your manager know you are doing this?
2a) If yes, do you only conduct your business during breaks & lunch?
2b) If no, do you only conduct your business on weekends, nights or ??

3) Do you tell your customers you are working at a "real job" or do you give excuses as to why you cannot start a rush project until you finish your shift?

I know I'm not wording this well, but the main gist of this is ... How are you running your business at the same time you are working for someone else? and .... Are you turning customers away because you cannot respond to them or supply them with their needs as quickly as you could if you didn't have a "real job" dominating your time?

[Dan Hintz]

I work a full-time job (and will continue to do so until lasering can pull in a six-figure salary to replace what I get as an engineer), and every company that has employed me knew full well before hiring me I had an outside job (it's on my resume). You don't conduct outside work while at your job... it's not fair to them. You also don't lie to your customers about why a job is being held back... it will always come back to haunt you.

[Dee Gallo]

I worked a full time job for 4 years before I retired to play with my laser full time. Since I worked at a State Prison, there is no way I was going to do any personal work on State time. Nor discuss personal business with coworkers or inmates. I spent about 4-6 hours a day after work doing my laser thing, and managed jobs accordingly. My plan was to build up my customer base and design a product line which I could produce on my own time schedule. So by the time I retired, I had a solid business which will NEVER make me a 6 figure yearly salary... I don't want to work that hard! But I won't starve either.

cheers, dee

[Joe Kace]

Well Mike here are my answers to your questions.

1. Yes my real job knows I have a business.
They have absolutely no problem at all with what I do, I'll explain in moment.
2. Yes I conduct business while during normal working hours of my real job and yes they know and have no problem.
3. Yes I tell ALL my customers that I am working another job and also tell them my company is fine with this.

Now here's my story.
I am a salesman for a aerial lift company and I work with over 2500 contractors and I'm paid 100% commission. My office is my home and car. Now my current " real job " has a customer base that I have built over the last 11yrs. These customers that I have 11 yrs of relationships with use labels,electrical panel tags ( I work with over 200 electricians ), name plates,badges you name it.When I first started working the labeling part of my business I told my company what I was doing right away, so not to hide anything. My company sees it as a good thing, now I can get in front of these customers for more than 1 thing now especially since construction is down and equipment rentals are slow. This is not why I purchased my laser, but it has turned into something real good. All circumstances are different for everyone. I just happen to have a good situation and I'm grateful for it everyday.

[Anthony Welch]

Before I had my heart attach in March I was a nurse of 15 yrs. The last 4 of those years I had the engraver. Never had a problem with "doing business" at work. Everybody from the CEO to my supervisor new I did this as they were customers as well. What let me do this is, they new I'd never let it interfere (sp?) with my job or patient care. Sometimes it would take hours or days for me to get to folks who wanted something. I think that if you are very conscious of whose time your on and don't take advantage of it you can do it. But that would depend on your boss/es.

[Joe Pelonio]

I ran my business full time for 17 years until the economy eliminated much of my business and I decided to go back to what I did before. When I was hired, I had to sign an ethics policy, and had to find a new shop to do work for some of my customers who I was now going to be dealing with at the new job, to avoid conflict of interest. With that, my employer had no problem with my business. I do not take or make calls from work, I could on my breaks but prefer to keep that side of me at home in the shop.I really love my new job and am working 9 hours a day at the moment, so those customers I have left for the now side business have to wait for after a weekend for orders of any size.

[Russell Ludwick]

I am starting my engraving business strictly as side work and to help develop my own products. I, like Dan, have a full time engineering position and I will not move until engraving is making more money than engineering. I have to come to terms with the fact that it probably won't, because hopes and dreams don't make any money.

Many of the people at my company know that I have the side engraving business and nobody really cares as long as it is not distracting you from your actual job at the company. Sure, I will field a call or reply to an email at work, but you have to keep in mind that your company is paying your rent and putting food on the table. Your time there should be focused on their work, not yours. Another thing I have learned, is that most larger companies will not let you do any work for them, or their competitors because of conflicts of interest and finances. I could do a ton of promotional stuff for my company, but their strict ethic policies limit me from it. All in all, transparency is the key when company ethics are involved.

As far as customers go, I tell everyone up front that this is just a side gig, and everyone so far has been more than happy with it. It is better to be up front about these things, and if they need next day turn around, they are free to look elsewhere. Most people would rather wait and know their parts are in good hands.

[Connie Gill]

Mike,

I work full-time, my employer knows I have the laser, they actually use my services occasionally. I try and keep most of my laser business to my lunch hour or after. I work 2-6 hours in the evenings and longer on some weekends to build my laser business. I have a company provided cell phone but also have a personal one for the laser business. My customers know I have a 'real' job and have no issue with that. In fact my home business is quite off the beaten path and my employer is very patient with me when I have customers drop off and pick up jobs from me while I am on the clock. To be fair to an employer I think you have to be honest with them about what you are doing and respect the time you are being paid to work - hopefully your day job boss will be as enthusiastic as mine when it comes to helping you with your venture and allowing the minor interruptions from time to time.

[Mike Null]

When I retired 13 years ago I started my engraving business. Things were slow and I didn't know much. A competitor about two miles away had a help wanted sign on the door so I went in and talked to the owner. I told him my situation exactly and worked for him for a couple of years, all the while learning so much more than if I had been on my own. (this is a high volume engraving operation with about 10 employees)

I never took a call, took a customer, took any materials or artwork and to the contrary sometimes worked difficult jobs at home on my machine to see if I could find a better way. I also, using my long time wood working skills, built some things for them to facilitate better production.

If need be I believe I could still go back to work for them.

[Joe De Medeiros]

I work full time, and my employer knows I have a part time business. I don't usually conduct business at work unless it's my employer asking me to bid on something (AV panels). My wife is my full time employee. We are primarily a glass business (fusion, and jewelery), and use the laser as part of our production, we don't normally do work for others, we direct sell our products through Art Gallery's, and Art shows around the Provence. I use my vacation days for when I need time off work, or work from the hotel through a VPN. Like Dan, unless my part time business can replace my 6 figure salary as a Design Engineer, I don't think I will give up my day job.

[Darryl Jacobs]

I have a slightly different take on this Mike.

I was an employer for 10 years in an aerospace company that we built from the ground up. We employed a bunch of enterprising engineering types and techies (which is like herding cats!!), some who had visions of their own businesses on the side. I was always alright with that as long as it did not compete with our business in any way and it did not interfere with their work at our business. As well, I did not want anyone doing business with their business at our business!! I think that is fair. Some of my best employees were the ones that kept me up to date on their business status and a couple of them got busy enough to go full time. Since I saw it coming, it gave us the time to properly transition the person out and into their own company full time.

The thing that annoyed me the most with employees were the ones who spent work time on E-Bay, or Stocks, or talking to their customer on company time. Just because your boss says nothing when he sees you doing that, doesn't mean he doesn't know it is going on...

With respect to your question #3, I would be honest and just take the projects on that you can around your work schedules. I have found that most of the time, "Rush" projects are not worth the small premium that you might make.

I would recommend doing your business during Weekends and Nights. When you are seeing pressure from your business during your day job, it is not fair to your employer or yourself and it is time to make the decision to go full time Engraving....


Cheers!

Darryl

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

Thanks for all of your responses. This is quite interesting to read what people are doing and I'm pleased to learn that people are being honest with their employers and not abusing company time. I should clarify that I was not asking in regards to myself. It is just something I have noticed while reading the posts all these years and have wondered about how people deal with their work. I remember hearing 20-some years ago that if you wanted to succeed in business, you should never let people know you are a 1-2 person company or working part-time at it. I prefer the honest approach and it's good to see others are respecting their employers while building their business and remaining honest with their customers!

[Dan Hintz]

20 years ago that was probably true. In today's fast-paced manufacturing world, though, it's the 1-2 man outfits that often have the speed to kick a new project into gear. A company is not going to ask a 1-2 man outfit to supply 1 million units a month of anything... but if they're introducing a new product and want 50 units a month of some complicated object, a 1-2 man outfit can transition very quickly and make the appropriate jigs out of plywood and scrap metal.

There's no shame in being a small company, you just have to market yourself as being more agile. Offer more options than the big guys... sure, you pay more for materials ordering in pounds than the guy ordering in tons, but you charge more, as well, for the speed advantage. Offer quicker turnarounds... no need for the clients design to slowly shift through 8 departments before making it to manufacturing. When they call you, they're talking to purchasing, manufacturing, shipping/receiving, design, and R&D all at the same time.

[Dean Fowell]

Hello All

I to Have A Real Job, and yes they know but they even help me out with some people to help But I also have made stuff for them as well I did not charge them because they pay me well, But they do supply material and I do not take calls I have a answering machine, I will check at lunch time at home and if real Imporantant my buddy will help me out But I did hide this from my last empolyer , But I want to be up front with the new company But my real Job I will give 150 % all the way bcause I have Kids to feed,

[Joseph Tovar]

I also have a full time job and they are aware of it. As others above mentioned, my company asks me to do things for them also. I don't have set hours so if I need to dicuss a business opportunity, I do, but just make sure I get my hours and work in. For me I feel it's a win-win situation at work. They want me to make some gifts for the emplyees(5 year awards, etc) and I can always beat the competitors prices since I don't have all the overhead. My company saves money, while I make a little money. People always ask when I'll go "full time" with the side business and I tell them I probably wouldn't because then my hobby/side work would become my full time job and I don't think it would be a fun as it is now.

[Wil Lambert]

1. I have always worked full time. My day job is a 5 axis programmer and manager at a mold shop. Laser and CNC work are my side business. The company I work for know what I do and does not care. They contract work out to me when I have equipment they don't. The signs for their plant were designed and fabricated by my shop. In the same regard I also have access to their machines when I need them.

2. I run my business during the day when it is needed. Most of the time it is an email or text from a customer, occasionally it's a phone call. The owner doesn't care. It also works back the other way. My day ends at 2pm. The rest of the crew is there until 4, the owner until 6. During my after hours I do take calls and answer questions when needed.

3. All my customers know I work. My customer base is small on purpose. This allows me to hopefully not be overwhelmed by the work load. There are times I work every waking moment of my day to keep up. Luckily those times are not often.

[Wil Lambert]

A lot of my customers come to me because of the quick turn around. I offer overnight prototyping service for many of them. After prototyping I get to play middle man and out source the final manufacturing. It's is the best of both world for me. I get to have a higher profit fast turn around, then get to make money from being middle man.