High Angle Jack

[Leigh Betsch]

A couple of pics of the mesquite high angle jack that I just finished. I stole the frog off a transitional, mounted it at 10 degrees to get to a 55 degrees. The sole is lignum. I'm not a turner so I reused the beech front knob, maybe I'll turn a mesquite one on my South Bend metal lathe someday but I really don't like wood turning. Finished with 2 coats of True Oil, wet sanded the first coat, then applied the second with green Scotch Bright. Leaves a satin finish, I might top with one more wipe on coat to get some gloss. Works great! I took some pics of the build if anyone is interested.

[Jim Koepke]

I always like seeing build pics.

jtk

[Joel Goodman]

Clever idea. +1 on the build info.

[Rick Boyett]

I love this idea. I fully plan to steal it :)

[Bill Houghton]

Oh, clever! I knew there was a reason I was holding on to the transitional frog I picked up as part of a box of parts at some garage sale or other.

[Leigh Betsch]

Ok a couple of build pics, but I warn you, not much neandering going on here.
I'm just going to add the pics with out commentary, you're big people, you can figure out the order, ask questions if you see something of interest. Some people would right a book, I'll just let you look at pics. Looks like SMC limits to 8 pics per post so I'll make another post and let you guess at the rest.

[Leigh Betsch]

Looks like the order definitely gets screwed up when you just add a bunch of pics but here's a tip: mill the stock, machine the stock, then finish, the rest just needs to be done before you get to to step #3.

[Leigh Betsch]

One last pic of the Mesquite herd, I mean collection, and one of "A Pair of Jacks":

[Gary Hodgin]

Excellent! Nice planes and photos. Thanks for sharing.

[Jeff Hamilton Jr.]

Really look nice.

[Brian J. Williams]

One question- have you tried the thin Stanley irons on something nasty, and if so, how well did it work with the 50 degrees?

Cool looking builds, by the way.

[Jon Toebbe]

Adjusting the bedding angle of a transitional frog is exceedingly clever, Leigh. I'm filing that one away for the next time I trip over a dog-meat transitional plane. Colorado's dry climate and decades of neglect seem to lead to every one I've found being checked beyond (easy) salvation. This doesn't stop the sellers from commanding top dollar for such a RARE and COLLECTIBLE artifact, mind you. :rolleyes:

[Johnny Kleso]

Leigh is that a Hell Hound? I heard of them but never seen one :)

Also are you milling on a Jigbore @ your house? If you you such as I only have a HF drill press and x-y table :)

I have a tub full of Transitional parts in the garage some place, makes we want to make one too :)

[Paul Incognito]

Nice planes Leigh!
Is that the Gage #4 in the pic?
Thanks for sharing the build.
Paul

[Rick Erickson]

Leigh, well done. Thanks for posting. I always like these kinds of posts. Work getting done :-)

[lowell holmes]

How do you acquire mesquite in South Dakota? :)

[George Summer]

So very nice plane you got there.

What angle is the low angle block plane, is it all wood ?

[Leigh Betsch]

A few answers to questions:
I'm a little worried about the original thin iron chattering at the high angle. It hasn't been a problem with cherry or maple yet but I hedged a bit by making an adjustable mouth. If I need to go to a thicker blade it should be fairly easy to slide the mouth open wider. A bigger problem is going to be getting a chipbreaker that will work with a thick modern iron and an old transitional frog. Worst case I'll have to make my own chipbreaker. I've got some 4140 prehard steel that I've used in the past for chipbreakers.

He's a hell hound alright. Especialy when he pukes on my shop floor. Actually he's a Duetch Drahthaar, one of the three that I own. He's the pup. Watches every move I make.

Yep a Moore #1 jig borer. Old man Moore would kill me if he seen me milling wood with it. I bought it a few years ago when I got fed up with the quality of the new Chineese made drill presses. For 800 bucks you can get one that does way more, and way better, than any drill press ever will.

I thought I'd slip the pic of the Gage plane in as indication of my next project. You can see the Partridge wood in the back ground that I had planned to re-wood it with. But that little Gage plane works so well I think maybe I'll just leave it alone and just make another one. I have already built a blade adjuster very simular to it for another plane I made. I've got to take a closer look at how the metal frame/sole is made but I think I'll try to reproduce much of it.

That is Texas mesquite that a friend of mine sent to me. I have one chunk left ~ 3" x 1 1/2" x 30" that I hoped to make a jointer out of but I'm having second thoughts.

The mesquite block plane is bedded at 12 degrees, bevel up. I found that at 12 degrees the sole gets thin enough that you can distort it when you torque the iron down. So I built the knob to bottom out when the iron is fully torqued, so I always get the same amount of deflection, then just lapped the sole flat when it is fully torqued down. It workls great, I'd recommend anyone to build one. I took the basic design from an old book published on line, I've seen it referenced here but I don't recall the name right now. Then I embelished it with a few of my ideas. Mostly wood but has a metal chipbreaker and a brass adjustable mouth.

[Leigh Betsch]

Second thought I think the block is bedded at 20 degrees, I'd have to check to make sure. I made a little metal plane at 12 degrees.

[Peter Pedisich]

Looks like the order definitely gets screwed up when you just add a bunch of pics but here's a tip: mill the stock, machine the stock, then finish, the rest just needs to be done before you get to to step #3.

OMG, Leigh, that looks exactly like a dog I had in the late 70's! Her name was Ginger and we think she was part springer spaniel, and part wire haired terrier. Wow, thats scary! I can't look!

[Leigh Betsch]

That's Roy. He's a Duetch Drahthaar, registered, trained, and tested according to the German hunting dog association (JGHV) but that's another story and another hobby. As some else said, he a Hell hound!

[David Keller NC]

Very nice, Leigh. Kind of puts the lie to the idea that a transitional plane won't work well (they just have to be extensively "tuned" as you've done!).

Couple of comments - the grain of the lignum on the sole of the plane appears to be "going the wrong way". I should clarify - there's nothing about the performance of a plane with the grain sloped back to front that's "wrong", just that when making a plane, it's easier to cut the mouth if the grain's pointing the other way. Larry Williams has said as much - orienting the grain so that there's long grain at the back of the mouth is just an aid to the planemaker.

Second - You mention that you didn't like turning (wood turning, that is :D). I personally didn't like it either until I watched one video. And only one - the rest of my "learning tools", including Richard Raffin's books, did not help at all. The video I'm referring to is Alan Lacer's "The Skew Chisel: The Dark Side and The Sweet Side". While this video is theoretically about the tool in the title, there's a couple of revelations in it that solved my issue. That issue was getting through 90% of a turning and have it ruined by a catch. What Alan describes is a way of mounting the work that means that it's impossible to get a catch that ruins the workpiece - 100% impossible. The nutshell is getting a dead center to use as the drive instead of a spur center. That allows the workpiece to spin on the drive point if you catch a tool on the work, and you control the balance between low power/ineffective cutting and high power/risk of a workpiece ruining catch by the amount of pressure applied to the tail stock.

I now do this with anything I'm turning, whether using a skew or otherwise. No more nasty catches.:)

[Jim Koepke]

The video I'm referring to is Alan Lacer's "The Skew Chisel: The Dark Side and The Sweet Side". While this video is theoretically about the tool in the title, there's a couple of revelations in it that solved my issue.

Just now looking for this online seems to indicate it is out of stock in most places.

Alan Lacer's site seems to be under construction.

Maybe my wife will let me buy a copy, but $35 +S&H may be a tough sell on my part.

Too late to get all the kids to chip in for father's day.

jtk

[Pam Niedermayer]

Just now looking for this online seems to indicate it is out of stock in most places.

Alan Lacer's site seems to be under construction.

Maybe my wife will let me buy a copy, but $35 +S&H may be a tough sell on my part....

I didn't find it for sale anywhere. Where did you find the $35 copy?

Pam

[Jim Koepke]

I didn't find it for sale anywhere. Where did you find the $35 copy?

Pam

I searched on the name > Alan Lacer < which provided a link to his skew chisel at woodturnerscatalog.com. On the side there was a link to the video.

If that doesn't get you there, send me a PM and I will provide the whole link.

jtk

[Kees Heiden]

I've got a question Leigh. Maybe you didn't test it extensively yet, but do you find a high angle jack helps against tear out? I was thinking that the deeper cuts and wider mouth of a jack will work against the higher angle and cause just as much tear out.

I'm asking because I'm toying with the idea to make a high angle jack too, but wonder if it is usefull or will just increase the planing resistance.

[Pam Niedermayer]

...If that doesn't get you there, send me a PM and I will provide the whole link.

Thanks, Jim, think I had too long a search term. All ordered, look forward to watching this. They also had a dvd by Lacer on threading. And, btw, they're having a special this week on his dvd about the skew chisel for $14.

Pam

[Bob Glenn]

Nice work. You've inspired me to go out to the shop and start fiddling with some of those old plane parts I've picked up over the past few years. Thanks for sharing!

[Zahid Naqvi]

Hmm! not sure why I didn't see this before. But Leigh thanks for posting your build pictures, this opens up a lot of possibilities for me.

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks, Jim, think I had too long a search term. All ordered, look forward to watching this. They also had a dvd by Lacer on threading. And, btw, they're having a special this week on his dvd about the skew chisel for $14.

Pam

I just called to get that deal, and it turns out that is a video by Allan Batty.

Oh well, wait for the next pay check.

jtk

[Pam Niedermayer]

I just called to get that deal, and it turns out that is a video by Allan Batty.

Oops, sorry about that; although it did sound very similar and is $20 cheaper.

Pam

[David Keller NC]

I just called to get that deal, and it turns out that is a video by Allan Batty.

Oh well, wait for the next pay check.

jtk

I think this video's been out quite a while - you might be able to view it for free through your local Library's inter library loan program

[Leigh Betsch]

Couple of comments - the grain of the lignum on the sole of the plane appears to be "going the wrong way".


You might have something here. Although I didn't have any problem cutting the mouth, because I built it Kenov style, (cut out and glued together), the mouth insert did chip probably because I have the grain running wrong in it. A bigger problem I came across last night while looking it over closely for the grain direction that you noted is, " The glue has failed and the sides are separating!! This is a major disappointment, as this plane truly does work very well and I would hate to have it go to heck. I've built a few more Krenov style planes and have never seen the sides separate before. I know that I used epoxy to glue the lignum sole to the mesquite body, but I can't remember if I used epoxy or Titebond II on the sides. I'm afraid there maybe some screws in this planes future. Maybe I'll add a fence and incorporate some rods to hold it together along with it.
I just finished up some floats to help make a traditional solid body plane, what timing!

Kees: I mostly use this as a short jointer and as a plane to knock down a rough surface before I finish the surface with a smoother or scraper. I like the 55 degree angle because it gives me a level of confidence that I wont create a bunch of tearout that I can't get rid of with my finishers. So I pretty much only take fine cuts with this plane ~ .002 - .004. I don't really know if there would be an advantage to a high angle if you were taking thick cuts. I'm sure some of the true plane wizards around here would know more than I:).

[glenn bradley]

Great stuff. Thanks for posting all the 'in progress' pics. I really like that little scraper plan. Nice lookin'

[Kees Heiden]

Thanks for the answer Leigh. I guess there is no way around to get me of my butt and try to make my own high angled jack and then test it for myself. 55 degrees seems a little steep though.

Sorry about the splitting sides of your plane. You did the lignum bottom very nice with these dovetails. That won't come apart too quickly! I have an old Ulmia plane with lignum bottom, and that plane is soooo sweet to use.

[David Keller NC]

Leigh - I've "rescued" more than few failed glue joints like the one that you've pictured by injecting cyanoacrylate glue using a hypodermic syringe. What you want is the "thin as water" cyanoacrylate (it comes in a bewildering variety of viscosities, the thinnest is the best for this application). Next time you go to your doctor, ask him/her if you can have 2 or 3 hypodermic syringes with about an 18 gage needle on it. It doesn't have to be exactly 18 gage, it can 16, 20, 22, etc... The higher the gage number, the smaller the needle, and the harder it is to push the glue through it.

Explain what you want it for - syringes with hypodermic needles on them are, at least in my state, prescription-only items, but every doctor's office has lots, and so long as you know your doctor and he/she knows you're not a junkie, they'll give you a couple.