Laser Engraver Drink Glass Recomendations

[Aaron Samuelson]

I see a need in my area for selling engraved glasses to restaurants and bars but need some help getting started. I have about 10 years of "Wizard" engraving experience but none with laser engravers and glasses. Your answers are greatly appreciated.

What type of engraver would be good for this type of engraving?

What glass manufacturers have your had success with?

What would a person typically charge for this service?

Thanks Again!

[Ross Moshinsky]

I think you see a need that doesn't exist. Most glasses at bars and restaurants have the artwork transfered or silk screened on. You will almost never find one that is engraved. Fact is people like GlassAmerica make the idea of laser engraving glasses seem insane.

Now if you really want to do glassware, your first priority should be finding a local distributor. Freight will kill any chance of making a profit quickly. The next step should be to evaluate if a laser is really the best method or is it better to look into an applied artwork or silk screening. You could build a business based on doing low quantities but that also makes it increasingly hard to make a profit.

[Gary Hair]

To add on to what Ross said - you really don't want to laser glassware. Sandcarving is the only way to get a good frosted etch, not a laser. I have both and can honestly say that I have only lasered about 2 glass items in the last 4 years and it was only because of time - the customer wanted it while they waited and were willing to accept the poorer looking results.

The other thing about laser vs sandcarving is the time - even though it may take less time to do 1 or 2 items with a laser, it will take MUCH LESS time to sandcarve any kind of quantities, such as a bar or restaurant would need.

If you truly see a need then I would suggest sandcarving, screen printing or pad printing.

Gary

[David Fairfield]

Gary, how do you do big runs of sandcarving? Is there a way to automate it? And can you get the fine detail of laser? Thanks!
Dave

[Gary Hair]

Dave,
For big sandcarving runs that have lots of detail I'll use photo resist, it's too time consuming for a couple of pieces but for any kind of quantities it's very fast. You'd be amazed at the detail, I can get 1pt lines pretty easily - you have to use 150 or finer abrasive though. Unfortunately there is really no way that I have to automate it but I'm sure that capability exists. For very simple pieces I could also laser cut stencil material. When I say simple, I mean very simple - no text, just a few simple shapes. If there is any text then I'll always go back to photo resist. I also have thin laser tape that I can either raster or vector, then sandcarve. It works well for text or graphics but the text needs to pretty minimal and the graphics fairly simple.

Gary

[David Fairfield]

Gary thanks! I've heard of photo resist for silkscreen and brass, had no idea it was also used for glass engraving! Cool! Do you have a link to a tutorial or a materials supplier? I'd really like to get away from using my rotary tool but don't want to completely dump my glass engraving. I have a good repeat customer, would be great to supply him with an improved product this year!

Thanks again -- very interesting!!
Dave

[Gary Hair]

Dave,
Here is a link to the Ikonics website and the R3 photo resist page. I use R3 a lot but haven't tried the R5 yet - it's much thicker and can even be used on harder materials like granite and marble. They have user guides there as well but I'd be happy to tell you how I use it, it's a pretty simple process. Call me if you have any questions. 541 653 8619 - 10-4 pst, m-f.

Gary

http://www.ikonicsimaging.com/r3.php

[Aaron Samuelson]

Thanks guys! I really appreciate the information...

[David Fairfield]

Awesome, thanks Gary! New to me and looks like it might be fun to try!

Dave

[Jay Steel]

Hi, if you want to do any type work with glass or bottles - buy a sandblaster. Far superior results sand etching at far less cost than a laser.

[Braden Todd]

I have a question on the laser tape for sandblasting, epilog told me that it would be great for placing on a glass bottle then using the laser to cut the design into the laser tape and sandblast as normal. Would I be at a loss for detail using a laser and laser tape?

I am primarily a glass engraver(referred here from cuttingedge), but I want a way to increase productivity and the items that I can offer so I am thinking of buying an epilog mini 24. My thoughts are that if I can cut the mask on the item to be sandblasted (bottles using a rotary attachment) I will save exposure, washout, dry, and placement time. Any advice would be wonderful!

Thank you

[Ross Moshinsky]

Braden, I don't know if it makes money sense to spend $15,000 on a laser to cut masks. A laser is a great tool to have. It will allow you to expand your business, but if your main goal is just to use it to cut masks, I don't think it's worth the money. Now you can do things with acrylic, plastics, and coated metals that makes the laser valuable.

Personally, I think UV exposure seems to make the most sense. Considering you can do a DIY exposure box for around $100-200 and then you don't have to worry about washout and dry time, maybe that would be a better investment.

[Gary Hair]

Braden,
I have used both methods and there are positive and negative aspects to both. Photo resist is not very efficient for small quantities, laser tape is not very efficient for large quantities (or large images). If you are doing a glass or two then it works really well to use laser tape and then blast. If you calculate the time to laser the tape vs expose and washout the photo resist then you can determine the break-even point for either method. It takes the same time to prep the glass/bottle and about the same time to blast/cleanup, so the only real factor is lasering vs exposure/washout. I feel that I can get better detail with photo resist, so if I have one item that's very detailed then I'll still use photo resist. The customer is going to pay for my time either way and they have to rely on my expertise to provide them with the best results.

Gary

[Braden Todd]

Thanks for the speedy replies!

Ross- I do want it to help with the mask creation/placing time but also to allow me to open up to more markets. As it is right now I am out of physical labor time and hope to automate something to generate more money while working on other items.

Gary- I think what I am hoping for is to be able to laser a mask and while blasting that bottle have another in the machine being cut and repeat all day long. I estimate that 5dzn bottles takes me around 5hrs to expose, washout, align to bottle and burnish (now I just need the laser time to compute). I have one customer eating a lot of my time and resist so I am trying to find a solution to speed me up and expand the business. On the price difference of laser tape to resist I have calculated that I'd save $1,000 a year on the one customer alone, if I can run the laser tape like I mentioned I can save nearly 3 weeks a year in exposure, washout, and placement time. However, that's if it would all work as I hope and as the sales rep says it can (I'd rather trust those that use the machine tho).

How detailed is to detailed for the laser tape?

Really appreciate all the info! If anyone ever needs glass advice I'd love to help you out.

[Gary Hair]

Braden,
Send me the image you are using for your customer and I'll gladly run it on my laser, I'll be able to tell you how long it would take my 30 watt machine which should give you a pretty good idea how long the 40/50 watt machine you are looking at will take. I can also tell you if the detail is going to work. My guess is that you won't see any time savings doing 5 dozen bottles, in fact, I'm betting it will take much longer with the laser. Even though you can *technically* blast one while another lasers, I don't think you'll be very efficient that way. If you stagge the process for the photo resist I think you could be way more efficient than you ever could with the laser. I would expose and washout the resist for 1 dozen bottles and let it dry. While it is drying I would expose and washout the next dozen. By then you should be ready to apply the first dozen to the bottles. After you are done applying you could expose and washout the next dozen, etc., etc., etc. Depending on the time to apply vs the dry time you might be able to blast a couple while the previous batch of resist is drying. This way vs exposing/drying/applying all at once should be a bit more efficient, especially if you can blast a few while waiting for them to dry.

Anyway, send me the artwork if you like and I'll run a quick test for you. garyhair at comcast dot net

Gary

[Gary and Jessica Houghton]

I see a need in my area for selling engraved glasses to restaurants and bars but need some help getting started.

Most Bars and restaurants will not want to spend the money on any engraving, whether it is blasted or lasered. They get most of their glasses from the alcohol suppliers or from the food suppliers. Why pay for something when you can get it free. Also, bars are go through too many glasses with drops and fights and what nots. Replacements will get too expensive.

Just my two cents...

[Dan Hintz]

I estimate that 5dzn bottles takes me around 5hrs to expose, washout, align to bottle and burnish (now I just need the laser time to compute).
That works out to 5 minutes/bottle... guess what? You're not going to really speed that time up any when you add in taking the bottle in/out of the rotary, opening/closing the door, locking things down, etc. You may see an extra bottle or two per hour, but is that worth the price of the laser? Unless it's an ultra-simple design you can vector, your processing time per bottle is going to easily be 3-6 minutes/bottle.

[Mike Null]

Somebody mentioned Glass America earlier. I use them often and find that I can sell their glass, printed or engraved, for less than I can engrave the customer's glasses. I can also make a decent margin and do no work other than ordering. Think marked beer glasses in the area of $3.00 and you still make your mark up.

Obviously, higher quantites are required but not so high as to be unreasonable.

[Martin Boekers]

I have lasered quite a few glasses in the last couple years, the biggest problem is
getting the price in an area people will pay.

If it's a special glass or bottle I recommend a local blaster as it does produce a nicer
etch, but the cost comes with it typically $25-$30 per item.

The ones I've done, 10-300 at a time ($2.50- $8.00) depending upon laser time
(usually 2-5min I have the cases set on a table next to the laser, with a brush to
clean the glasses so it's pretty much non stop) I have the client provide glasses with
extras just in case;-). I recommend Dollar stores, Old Tyme Pottery, Garden Ridge
etc. They usually are cheaper than a hotel supplier. I recommend style of glasses that
are easier to work with on the rotary.

The larger quantities are for events, weddings, conferences etc. I can usually get the
engraving down to about 2 min a glasses (all time included) so that brings laser
billing time to $75per hour+

I can't buy them out and mark them up enough to justify it. (shipping is a killer!)I do
them on a weekend so I don't have the normal interuptions. Boring, yes, but it does
bring in work that I wouldn't have. In a run of 300 glasses it takes about 10-12hrs
work, billing about $800.


The key is finding a way to make it work, by the time the customer buys the glasses
themselves (less than a dollar each) total cost is under $4.00 a glass. If I can fit their
budget I Make money and they are happy.

Then..... when I get them interested, I end up selling them a handful of candles (water-slide decals) customized poker chips as give-aways, an engraved copy of their
invitation, gifts for the bridal party and awards for the event etc.

As for bars and restraunts, unless they are selling the glasses, it's tough to get them
to buy enough to make it worth while. Each broken glass means the have to sell
a couple extra beers to pay for it. I have seen some that have personalized mugs
on a rack that are reserved for regulars though.

It can work, but takes planning and creativity.

[Mike Null]

A few months back I did 120 glasses for the local establishment of a national bar chain. I engraved name date and event on their logo beer glasses for a bar mitzvah they hosted in one of their party rooms. I charged $4.25 each including pick up and delivery.