My second airbrush experiment - lessons learned!

[John Keeton]

This is a simple clamshell turning, and done only for the purpose of having a palette to play with my airbrush. My first airbrush attempt did not turn out well. It was the thin, red Christas bowl I did with the simple ogee. Some of you may recall. I ended up sanding the piece back, and simply laying on red dye by hand to salvage the piece!:o I was happy with the outcome, but a bad airbrush attempt!

I think curly maple is an excellent dye candidate, and this piece is about 6" wide and 5" tall to the tip of the finial. I have done a few of these - most early on in my turning journey. They are quick, not difficult, and kind of fun. One is limited in form - it will not win any contests!!;) But, as Bernie noted in his recent thread, they do seem to interest folks. When someone looks inside, or feels inside, and everything is finished to a smooth gloss you get that questioning look.

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I ended up with the $20 Harbor Freight double action brush ($14 on sale!), and their little compressor that drives it. I am very pleased with the unit. The compressor is dead quiet.

Getting the hang of the brush itself wasn't too bad, but the actual effects of the application are tricky. I have been able to "fade" dye by hand with some success by using various dilutions, and immediately using an alcohol soaked towel to blend the transition. Getting the same effect with the airbrush takes some practice.

The color combination was inspired by this picture in the CSUSA catalogue of a tealight container. I thought the colors were neat, and the form used was a perfect situation for a clamshell turning.

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The one very important lesson learned here - with an airbrush, you are not applying much dye, and you are getting very little penetration. You CANNOT sand it back effectively as can be done with hand applied dye - only the very top surface has been dyed. Touch it with sandpaper, and the dye is gone! As a result, there is a much too visible demarcation line with the brown on the edges of the form. I should have left the brown sprayed area as it was.

And, and as you can see, the crisp edges of the collar detail are light. That is not the result of sanding. As noted, there is little penetration. I didn't think about this until I applied a sealing coat of lacquer while on the lathe. It pulled what little dye was on the edges. At that point, it was too late to correct the problem without an absolute total stripping of the lacquer and resanding. This piece was never intended to be a masterpiece, and there was NOT going to be a redo here!!:D It would be better to hand dye such detailing prior to the airbrushing.

I applied the brown first. In hindsight, I think it may have worked better to do the blue first. The brown dye seemed to "seal" the wood to a degree, and I had trouble getting the intensity of blue I was after. As a test, I even sprayed a heavy application of dye over the brown with no effect. The blue area of the finial is much closer to what I was after - same dye, same wood, different grain I suppose. Seems applying the blue first may have given a little more control over the end result.

I will do more with the airbrush, but it will take some practice to get the effects desired. I suspect airbrushing acrylic paints would be easier, and they may give a very good look in diluted form. Something else to try!!

I would like to hear any comments or suggestions on airbrushing. I don't mean to imply that you can't comment on the turning - it just is what it is, however. No plans, no sketch, just a quick turning to be used as a palette!

[Doug W Swanson]

John,

While I'm not to fond of the blue, I really like this piece. The detail and form are very well done.

I also find it amazing how you can do something like this when you have only done airbrushing a few times. You certainly have a knack for mastering different forms of art!

[Roger Chandler]

John,

I have no airbrush experience, so no help from me........but I wanted to thank you for posting about the exercise, technique and how you approached all the applications. I helps me and others to learn. I see what you mean about the blue on the finial, and on the form.........definitely a deeper, almost crystal blue on the finial, which if could have been on the whole of the form, would have changed it into a more striking turning, which by the way, even though it was meant as a palette, it is still very nice!

Pretty stuff, overall, and it would certainly look good on a shelf that had a mirror for a background........it would make a nice eye catcher of a center piece in that kind of setting. Hummmm, maybe somewhere in your next turnings the theme "Reflections" could be given form and finish........something to think about....hummmm......;):D .......incorporating a mirror/crystal[?] in the art/hollow form/finial .......... hummmm......

Is it possible for JK to be "challenged" .....hummmm...........;):D ............let's see, mirrored collar........finial embellished with a crystal........just planting seeds to see if they grow and bear fruit..........hummmm........;):D

[Michelle Rich]

Thanks for the info, but I expect by next week, you will win the airbrush championships of KY! :-) I have no desire to use one. A friend said it took her about 6 mos to really get proficient on all materials....We await your next delight.

[David E Keller]

I like the color combo, but I'll be of no use for pointers on airbrush techniques. As for the difference in the blue colors, is it the result of sanding to a different degree? I thought I noted at one point that you often sand your finials to 1500 or 2000 while the main forms aren't taken that far into the grits.

Should be fun to watch you fiddle with that color gun... I hope you'll keep posting them as they come to fruition.

[Greg Ketell]

Two things come to mind for me. 1) You could approach it like painting a model: first seal the wood with a gloss finish (think of this as your primer); airbrush the tint on until it looks the way you want it; apply your final coats of finish to seal the "paint job". This will prevent the dye from soaking in giving more depth to the color and more stability. 2) For fades one easy way to accomplish them is to hold the airbrush over where you want the stain to be heaviest and then rotate it towards the faded area without moving it. Since the spray ends up having to travel farther it gets wider and lighter producing a nice fade. This is how automotive paint is usually faded.

As it is, it is a beautiful piece!! I can't wait to see the ones that come out the way you want them to!!

[John Keeton]

Greg, you bring up an interesting concept. What I am using is Transtint dyes in DNA. I wonder what would happen if they were sprayed over a shellac (alcohol soluble) seal coat? Wonder if they would simply run off, or burn into the shellac?? One effect you would not get is the grain pop of using a darker underlying color in the curly maple, but one might be able to lay down a base color, and then seal and lay on the next.

And, I wonder what effects could be obtained with diluted acrylics over a sealed surface??

Sounds like some experimentation is in order!

[Greg Ketell]

Sadly, I don't know enough about finishing to answer any of your questions.



Sounds like some experimentation is in order!

I look forward to seeing the results!!

[Steve LaFara]

John...I have a fair amount of air brush experience and my first inclination is that your sanding process has a lot to do with the penetration issues. One big issue with trying to dye wood with an air brush is that if you sand the surface much more than 150 grit, the pours of the wood fill up and won't allow the fine mist from the brush to penetrate. You might try spraying before final sanding and see what you get. You may even want to wipe on, then sand to final grit and then spray a fine amount for highlights.

Also the amount of air used greatly affects the drying time, and if too much is used, the paint or dye can actually be almost dry before it hits the surface. This is especially true with acrylics. Most people tend to compensate by increasing the amount of paint applied, but then you just get a thick layer on top of the surface that can run. Acrylics should be sprayed around 25-40 psi depending on how thin it is and solvent based aroun 20-25 psi. Much more and all you get is a fogging effect. Much less and the material does not want to atomize properly. Acrylics should be thinned to the consistency of milk. You can use the thinner that is sold with the paints, but Windex or Future Floor Polish actually work as well or better. A few drops of either help a lot. I know it sounds strange but each color in the acrylic lines of paint (Createx) react to thinning differently. Also make sure that the brush is VERY clean after use. The needles & tips tend to clog easily making future use even more erratic. I completly dissasemble the brush after each use.

My first tip would be to practice on plain white paper with different air pressures and paint feed settings. You will quickly get a feel for what each will do to the end results. The HF air two stage air brush will make it a little harder to get what I think you want but can with enough practice and the right mixture of dye or paint. Practice just making lines of the same thickness. It's a lot harder than you think but this will give you much better control of the brush when it matters. Here's a video with a few tips: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhWw4Kdn9BI

Good luck with the new toy and make sure to post your results. I love the shape of the piece by the way. Not so much on the colors though. :)

[David DeCristoforo]

This has all the hallmarks of Keeton piece. Meticulous workmanship, precise detailing, fine finish and, of course, a beautiful piece of wood to begin with. I'm glad you made it clear that the coloring was experimental because, for me, the combination of brown and blue just does not work well. Also, the fades from one color to the other are somewhat abrupt. I'm still enough of a novice with my airbrush to refrain from offering any advice other than to drop the HF brush in the trash and get a really good one. A friend let me play with his dual action Paashe brush and it is so much easier to control. The one thing I have learned so far is that brushing dyes is not like brushing paints or heavy stains. My best results to date have come from laying on very little color with the brush and slowly building the fades.

This piece looks like it was left in the freezer! Maybe you can come up with a name for it that has something to do with ice:D

[Rick Markham]

John is your airbrush double action?

I have been thinking a little about this recently, I haven't ever used transtint dyes, but Steven may have nailed one of the problems directly. I would think that atomizing the DNA would probably cause the majority of the solvent to evaporate before hitting the workpiece, not leaving enough to allow the dye to soak in very far. You might consider trying various solutions of isopropyl (90% or 70%) which would leave a higher percentage of water to help it soak farther in. You might have to exercise more control to prevent runs. I am looking forward to seeing what your experiences are with this, as your saving me some time on this learning curve too!

[Bob Bergstrom]

John Greg is on the right track. An air brush will not apply enough finish to pop the grain or penetrate very deep into any wood (dries too fast). To bring out the grain I usually apply a colord lacquer or colored shellac with a brush or if it is not going to be cut back a detail gun (gives ability to lay down a wetter even coat of finish). Once I am happy with the base coat. I seal it all with a couple coats of lacquer. Now the surface of the bowl becomes akin to something in photo shop. By applying layers you can build different blends and effects (sealing each layer with coats of lacquer). If the effect is not right 0000 steel wool will act as an eraser. The steel wool also can be used as a tool to blend colors or expose areas of interest. Blond shellac will not influence subsequent layers, but amber will change blue to green etc. Spraying Transtint over shellac should not be a problem especially if mixed with alcohol. The alcohol will melt right into the shellac. Fading on an edge is simple. Fading on a flat surface takes practice. If you decide to move up in air brushes, the 40% off coupon comes in real handy on purchasing a quality airbrush from you local Hobby lobby.

[Steve Schlumpf]

John - like many others - I look forward to seeing where this leads you! That little section of bright blue in the finial was the color I was hoping to get in my recent hollow form! Would be nice to have more control over the color process instead of being at the mercy of the wood!

[John Keeton]

I knew I could depend on creekers for some excellent input!! Thanks!
I'm still enough of a novice with my airbrush to refrain from offering any advice other than to drop the HF brush in the trash and get a really good one. ...This piece looks like it was left in the freezer! Maybe you can come up with a name for it that has something to do with ice:DDavid, this piece doesn't deserve a title!!:eek:

I did do some research into the HF dual action brush on several modeling sites. Believe it or not, it actually gets fantastic reviews, and most say it functions as well as the higher end brushes. It and the compressor were about $65 as I recall. There are so many things I want to try, I can't imagine getting too deep into this. So, at this point, I think it is enough for me.
John...I have a fair amount of air brush experience and my first inclination is that your sanding process has a lot to do with the penetration issues. Steve, this thought crossed my mind. I had sanded to 400, and then 0000, so it was a very smooth surface with a slight sheen. You have given some very good advice in your other comments, too, and I really appreciate you taking the time to post!! I am using a little more pressure than may be needed, as well. The compressor is factory set at about 45-50 I think (need to look) so I may need to dial that down some.


John is your airbrush double action?Yes, Rick, it is. And, I think mixing some distilled water in with the DNA may help, as well.


John Greg is on the right track. An air brush will not apply enough finish to pop the grain or penetrate very deep into any wood (dries too fast). To bring out the grain I usually apply a colord lacquer or colored shellac with a brush or if it is not going to be cut back a detail gun (gives ability to lay down a wetter even coat of finish). Once I am happy with the base coat. I seal it all with a couple coats of lacquer. Now the surface of the bowl becomes akin to something in photo shop. By applying layers you can build different blends and effects (sealing each layer with coats of lacquer).Bob, you do some great airbrush work, and I was hoping you would post! Thanks for the info - lots to consider here! Sounds like I need to just do some practice on paper as Steve says, and combine some of the great advice given here for another session!

[Bill Hensley]

Beautiful results from your experiment. The exceptional finish makes it look like glazed pottery.

[David DeCristoforo]

"...the HF dual action brush ...actually gets fantastic reviews..."

Well, I have the $9.95 one. You got the high end fourteen dollar model. Mine is going in the garbage as soon as my new Paasch arrives!

"...this piece doesn't deserve a title..."

As to a name, I was thinking that if you called it something like "The Ice Man Cometh" or "The Revenge of Mr. Freeze", it would probably end up in the Renwick!

[Chuck Stone]

. I would think that atomizing the DNA would probably cause the majority of the solvent to evaporate before hitting the workpiece, not leaving enough to allow the dye to soak in very far. You might consider trying various solutions of isopropyl (90% or 70%) which would leave a higher percentage of water to help it soak farther in.

You could also try adding butyl alcohol to the shellac. It acts as a retardant, so it might help the color soak in without
worrying about the water messing up the finish. I use it for brushing shellac because it helps to level it and my brush
work leaves much to be desired. (actually, I'd be better off fingerpainting..) But the fumes are pretty bad, so some
sort of ventilation is a must.

[Michael James]

Nice job there John. As a guy that has looked at thousands of sunburst guitars, my opinion is that the best ones look "worn", no matter what the contrasting colors are. My favorite, I suppose, is the tobacco sunburst which is black on the edge and moves to a tan, or tobacco color in both front or back indicating wear by the player. I think this piece, at least in the pics are starting to achieve that effect.
Keep posting these, please as some of us will be journeying down that road eventually!

mj

[Dick Mahany]

John,

Looks like another exciting journey into the unknown with airbrushing. I'm looking forward to as many new ideas as you did with your turnings ! Keep the pics coming....

Regards,

[Scott Hackler]

John this is a very interesting piece. I am not sold on the color combo, but that might just be my personal taste. One of the side views gives the illusion of a rich copper color. This I like a lot. I don't think I would have two toned the finial. It seems a little to blended and doesn't stand out enough for me (color wise).

Now with a pyro set and airbrush..... I see a high speed drill in your future!

[Curt Fuller]

I have to be honest John, this one just doesn't do much for me. I'm looking forward to seeing your future experiments though. I know your mind is probably going a hundred miles an hour with ideas for this air brush thing.

[Baxter Smith]

I remember that tea light holder and being impressed by its color. Still have the catalog. I am sure there is a learning curve to airbrush technique. If the HF air brush doesn't work out on your turnings, you could still use it on your old tractor. AC or MF? Can't remember which. Regardless, you could have the flashiest mowing machine in Kentucky!

[Jim Leslie]

re: I suspect airbrushing acrylic paints would be easier, and they may give a very good look in diluted form.
First, nice job! I have airbrushed a few pieces using Golden airbrush acrylics and that is outstanding paint. I have also used their fluid acrylics which, while when thinned with Golden medium and their extender to a milk like consistency will airbrush very well. The fluids are normally applied with a brush. There are more colors available in the fluid line as well as speciality paints like iridescent, etc. These types of paints are not generally available in a ready to use airbrush formula.
Have a look at http://www.goldenpaints.com

[Jeff Nicol]

John, I like it but may add some things that I would try to bring it all together. It seems that there is not the contrast or break-up points to draw the eye to and too also add some "POP" to the blue. This is my solution for added beauty! The collar needs to be highlighted more maybe with some gold leaf and maybe the top tear drop on the finial do the same, I have some gold leaf paint that I use for these types of jobs that are much easier to apply than the real deal.

Just my 2 cents,

Nice finish all around,

Jeff

[John Keeton]

I have to be honest John, this one just doesn't do much for me. I'm looking forward to seeing your future experiments though. I know your mind is probably going a hundred miles an hour with ideas for this air brush thing.Curt, it doesn't do much for me either!!;) The airbrush thing is just an interesting diversion in the road - certainly not a subvortex by any means. Had the entry cost been beyond the $65, I probably would not have considered it. I think there is a lot of potential here - just not sure my interest level will take me very far. I have too many other things I want to try.

However, the information provided by several in this thread certainly does give some possibilities and I think acrylics may be the answer. Steve mentioned this while I was working on this piece. The dyes are problematic for many reasons, and for the effects I want to accomplish, airbrushing dyes may not be the answer. Time will tell!!


I remember that tea light holder and being impressed by its color. Still have the catalog. I am sure there is a learning curve to airbrush technique. If the HF air brush doesn't work out on your turnings, you could still use it on your old tractor. AC or MF? Can't remember which. Regardless, you could have the flashiest mowing machine in Kentucky!Baxter, don't even talk that way!!!:eek: My MF tractor is sacred ground.....hmmmmmm.....however, some neat airbrushed flames on the rear wheel guards might look neat.....:cool:


re: I suspect airbrushing acrylic paints would be easier, and they may give a very good look in diluted form.
First, nice job! I have airbrushed a few pieces using Golden airbrush acrylics and that is outstanding paint. I have also used their fluid acrylics which, while when thinned with Golden medium and their extender to a milk like consistency will airbrush very well. The fluids are normally applied with a brush. There are more colors available in the fluid line as well as speciality paints like iridescent, etc. These types of paints are not generally available in a ready to use airbrush formula.
Have a look at http://www.goldenpaints.com Jim, thanks!! I will add this to the rest of the excellent information provided in this thread for my future experiments. In looking at the website, Michaels carries Golden paints and they are fairly close for me.

Jeff, some good comments for improving this particular piece. However, the turning itself was never intended to be a gallery piece - just a palette for the airbrush. This piece does not have the proper form, and I knew early on that I was not going to be happy with the end result of the airbrushing.

If I end up with some level of proficiency at spraying, then I might consider doing a "keeper" with some added embellishment. I do think the gold leaf, with a "good" airbrushed look, would be a great combination - particularly to add some "pop" as you indicate and bring out the blue.