record 043 paper weight

[Robert Culver]

well I got myself a nice hunk of junk by the looks of it . I have had this plane since november and it was missing some parts. a screw and a blade. a couple of fellow creekers offered to help me out with it and I was happy to have the help one was to make me a missing cuter the other to help me out with a missing odd ball screw. All was to be done around chrismas or shortly after. I sent my screw to the nice guy that offered to make a new one for me in good faith and here I sit now a month later with my piece of junk plane that is totaly out of working order. I have been really understanding up to tonight and now quite honestly I am pretty darm steamed:mad:. I am very greatful for there offers to help me out but its getting a little old being the only one starting comunications to find out what the hold up is and I reallize things come up and all that but this is getting a bit out of control and I feel as though Im being taken here.I feel as that I have been plenty understanding and all that but come on. Im ready to chuck this thing in the trash and take my loss.:mad: thanks for listening to my rant.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Well, since it is a clunker, why don't you re-tap the hole to a common size? 43's aren't really collector pieces, so just make it work!

[Jim Koepke]

Robert,

I'm sorry to hear of your frustration. Hang in there and don't chuck the 043.

I have been on the other side of this where I was going to look to see if I have a part and get back to someone. It slipped my mind, but when reminded, I did get back to the part seeker.

Hopefully they will get going and get back to you. Hopefully you will not have to drill and tap the tool to make it useable.

Maybe you will be able to find a source for Record parts somewhere.

jtk

[Robert Culver]

I really didnt want to retap it but at this point I may just do it. It would be nice to have the guythat has my screw atleast make it right .

[Robert Culver]

Jim I had pretty much exhasted myself looking for the screw the only I contacted nubers of people but nobody had one its a 10-28 i believe. I cant even find a retailer that has one. I think the only thing they use that tread design on now is gun scopes but I cant fine just one screw.

[Robert Culver]

its kinda putting a damper on ths plane for me I was pretty excited then went to bumed now im just plane erked.I know I probably sound like a whiner and maybe im just having a bad day and maybe I should just keep quiet but.....I needed to get it off my chest.

[Tony Zaffuto]

10-28 is a pretty common thread (maybe not for the modern borg, but both MSC or McMaster-Carr would have them). Which screw is it?

[Robert Culver]

its the screw that holds the fence rod to th body of the plane. i will check your out those two places seems like I may have looked already though?

[Robert Culver]

Nope ran into the same problemit skips from 10-24 to 10-32 thanks.

[Jonathan McCullough]

Would a thumb screw from a common Stanley 78 work? Stanley also used a unusual thread types, and a lot of Record's designs are, well, Stanley knockoffs. It would stand to reason that, like plane blades, chip breakers, and other things, Record would use thumb screws that would work with Stanley planes.

[Jonathan McCullough]

St. James Tool bay lists Stanley 78 depth stop thumb screws for $3.00 with a "10/28" designation. It may fit your application. They guy who runs things over there does a lot of business over the phone and seems to be pretty helpful. Maybe you could give him a call and find out if it would work.

[george wilson]

Get the guy to at least return your screw and I'll make one for you. It isn't a big deal. Trouble is,I'd either have to have the screw or the whole plane without the screw to determine the length,etc.

PM me if you can get the screw back.

[Jim Koepke]

10-28 is a pretty common thread

I wish people would look before leaping to such conclusions.

Yes, 28 threads per inch is listed in my machinist handbook.

No, there is not a common supply for these kinds of things.

If you know that McMaster, MSC or anyone for that matter has them, please supply a link to the page.

A fellow member has an unfortunate situation and he is not looking for false hopes.

St. James tools does have (#78 Depth stop screw (10/28) new style $3.00) listed under their replacement parts. tools>replacement parts about 1/2 way down the page or use your browser's find function on the page.

Give them a call or email and see what they can do might be the best thing.

jtk

[Tony Zaffuto]

10-28 is a common set screw, maybe even at the borg. Get an extra long one and simply tighten with a hex wrench, until George makes you a proper screw.

[Jim R Edwards]

Maybe this will help http://www.toolexchange.com.au/Imagesparts/record43thumb6498.jpg
http://www.record-planes.com/
http://www.recordhandplanes.com/parts-and-sizes.html

[Michael Gaynes]

If anyone can confirm that the screw is the same as on my 044C (I'll try to measure it when I go to the shop today), I can give it to George to copy. I live in Williamsburg.

[george wilson]

10/28 is not a common screw. The common sizes are 10/24 and 10/32. Those companies used uncommon screws so you'd have to buy their parts.

I'll make the screw if you can give me the proper specs. I need a threaded hole to make sure my screw will fit. I have some old Stanley planes. If they use a 10/28,I could use the Stanleys for a gauge.

What say you,Jim? Do Stanleys use that screw?

[Jim Koepke]

What say you,Jim? Do Stanleys use that screw?

I am not sure. I know the screw that holds the plate for the blade locking bolt on a #45 or #55 may be the only candidate I can think of. It may be a #8 size. I will try and remember to give one a look later when I am out in the shop. The problem with that screw is it's less than 1/4" long. I'll also check my Record #778 again.

I know I do not have any spares. If it were 1/4-28, those I have.

I looked for set screws with that thread and could only find 1/4-28 listed.

I found adjustable dies for cutting 1/4-28 threads. I have had limited success cutting 12-20 threads using a 1/4-20 adjustable die tweaked down all the way. They work, but it is not the best way to go. A 1/4" die definitely won't adjust down enough to cut a 10-28 and the angles are likely to be too far off even if they could.

jtk

[Robert Culver]

It looks like the screws will be in the mail on monday. So all the new help may not be nessasary but thanks for the offers to all of you apperently the weather has kept him from getting it in the mail. Im sure happy to here that news. I hope it gets here on time for me as I am planing to vacation out of town in march and kinda need to get this thing togather before then. I would like to use it in the prosses of making a gift. I will keep my fingers crossed.

[Michael Gaynes]

I've measured the screws on my 044C. Those that hold the fence rods to the body of the plane are indeed 10-28 (0.182"), about 1/4" long, flat fillister. Again, I don't know if this is a match to the 043, though from photos online it looks like it. George, if you PM me your address, I can drop off the whole plane to give you something to work from.

[Robert Culver]

sounds like the screw that I mailed out Michael things like this make me want to stock pile spare parts.

[Jim Koepke]

sounds like the screw that I mailed out Michael things like this make me want to stock pile spare parts.

Stock piling spare parts is not a bad idea.

Glad to hear it was just a weather issue keeping you from getting the screws you need.

I did check a few things in my shop and found that the screw that holds the blade locking bolt on a Stanley #45 is a 10-28. Also the lever cap screw on my Stanley #100-1/2 is a 10-28 as is the thumb screw for the lever cap on another squirrel tail plane that I think is an AMT.

jtk

[george wilson]

Thanks,Michael. Let's see what happens with the screws. If I had the screw,I could measure the threads with a thread micrometer.

[John Coloccia]

Shoot, that thing would have been drilled and filled with a 10-24 helicoil in my shop (or 10-32 if you want finer pitch).

[george wilson]

That would make the usable thread dia. VERY small,wouldn't it ?

[John Coloccia]

That would make the usable thread dia. VERY small,wouldn't it ?

The helicoils really aren't that bad. #10 is about .18 or .19...somewhere around 3/16". The helicoil drill size for 10-24 is 13/64", or about .2. I guess you'd have to see it to be really sure it would work but it doesn't add a huge amount. It ends up somewhere around 1/4" total. I might also just go up another size and forget the insert altogether but I think the larger size thumb screw would look goofy and be a constant reminder that it's not original.

Those 10-28s are all but impossible to get, for sure. The only source I know of is gunsmith supplies, and they won't have thumbscrew style (which if I understand where this goes is the style that's wanted).

Of course, having a screw handmade by George is certainly a very fine option as well :D

[Robert Culver]

when I took this to my local machine shop they had a look at it and honestly he didnt want to tap it because of the treading issues that george is talking about.There is not a whole lot of metal around the screw bodys to work with thats why I desided not to do it unless it was a last resort because th tapping could have made the plane a true paper weight the man I spoke with there has been running a metal shop for over 30 years so I trust his judgment. He would have made screws for me if I had wanted a bulk of them but I didnt see the true need to have a 100 or so of them around. He was nice enough though to go through the whole thing with me and give me my best option. which was to have somebody make one or just keep digging til I found one. I appreciate everybody efforts to get this thing going for me and when I say everybody I mean everybody even though I maybe a bit rattled about it right now. Honestly I just wish this would have been a better experiance and im sure I have offended some people and for that Im sorry im just a guy going through life just like everybody else here and we all have a point where we lose it a little.

[george wilson]

I won't make it by hand. I'll use a lathe!!!!:) Actually,making a unique part is referred to as "hand machining",a term which doesn't make a lot of sense,does it?

[Jim Koepke]

I won't make it by hand. I'll use a lathe!!!!:) Actually,making a unique part is referred to as "hand machining",a term which doesn't make a lot of sense,does it?

Hand machining as opposed to set and forget makes sense to me, but then I can find a lot of sense in what some consider nonsense. On the other hand, a lot of what some people think makes sense I think is nonsense.

It just depends on what side of the looking glass one happens to be standing.

jtk

[george wilson]

I almost lose a sense of the nonsensical sense you sense,Jim!:)

[Rob Young]

re: blades for 043

IF (and I'm not sure here) the blades for a 043 are the same as the 044 and 044C then here is an option for you. You can get blades from Stanley that will fit. However I think you may be limited to imperial sizes. Maybe you care, maybe you don't.

EDIT : just looked here (http://www.stanleytoolparts.com/ploughcutters.html) and they do have metric sizes!

The blades are around $6 each but the shipping makes them $12 one at a time.

Will require flattening and honing to be sure.

I picked up a #48 (T&G plane) which had long since parted ways with its blades. Other than the blades having a useless notch for the #48 they worked perfectly. And they fit both my 044C record and my #45 Monkey-Ward clone. So plenty of extras in the 5/16" size now.

Your mileage may vary.

You know what? I just went to get the URL for you and found this, a 30 piece set that looks like it might be worthwhile if somebody can confirm that blades from a #45 would fit a Record 043 too.

http://www.stanleytoolparts.com/cusetwiwa1.html

Good luck.

[Robert Culver]

the blade for the 043 is just a stright piece of steel preety much with 25.5 deg bevel on it im missing my 1/4 inch blade if I dont get one soon Ray Ilses makes a set for just a smal amount of money and i will probably just pick up his set thanks for the linktough it my me usful as Im looking at picking up a 044 this year if I ever get this one going.

[Brad Patch]

well I got myself a nice hunk of junk by the looks of it . I have had this plane since november and it was missing some parts. a screw and a blade. a couple of fellow creekers offered to help me out with it and I was happy to have the help one was to make me a missing cuter the other to help me out with a missing odd ball screw. All was to be done around chrismas or shortly after. I sent my screw to the nice guy that offered to make a new one for me in good faith and here I sit now a month later with my piece of junk plane that is totaly out of working order. I have been really understanding up to tonight and now quite honestly I am pretty darm steamed:mad:. I am very greatful for there offers to help me out but its getting a little old being the only one starting comunications to find out what the hold up is and I reallize things come up and all that but this is getting a bit out of control and I feel as though Im being taken here.I feel as that I have been plenty understanding and all that but come on. Im ready to chuck this thing in the trash and take my loss.:mad: thanks for listening to my rant.

This strikes me as another premature rant written for all to see. Someone offers to make a new screw and because its several weeks late the poster is steamed and starts ranting. The people who comprise this community are terrific people, they have offered me very helpful information on several occasions. The offer of making a unique screw is typical of the sharing I see everyday.

It is far to easy to start a post before trying to sort things out with individuals or retailers. This is a typical example of not communicating when upset. Now if I can only take my own advise.

[Robert Culver]

I didnt mention names for that purpose I also stated I was greatful for there help . I have not heard from one of the fellas in a coulpe of weeks and have sent atleast 3 p/ms to that individual. Its not just a rant but another way to get sombodys attention. Its also unfotianated that I had to even take it this far. I do my best to keep comunication lines open and wouldnt expect anything less if i had made a arangment with sombody and that person was counting on me.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Was this guy charging you money for the service or was it a favor?

[Robert Culver]

one was charging me the other was a favor there would have been payment to both as a showing of apprectation. thats the way i work. I had made it easy on each and had no expectations other than comunication when I lost comunication for over a week it began to bother me a bit mostly that it had gone past deadlines set by the individulals doing the work not by myself after a couple attemts to conatct each of them with no responce it began to wear on me a bit more. right now im out money, postage, and a part to make the plane work I would say just comuication was not asking much at all. I think what erks me the most is the fact that I was just egnored they had been on line but egnored my p/m a 2 second message isnt much to ask for. Anyway I think I have explained myself enough in this post. im sure the folks I have delt here the most on this forum know Im a honest a pataint person.

[george wilson]

My offer is for just postage.

[george wilson]

Warning: I am having both of my eyes done for lens replacement at the end of this month. Of course,I am not certain of the outcome. I hope it comes out alright,without recovery time or complications. I've had cataracts for years,and have been putting this off. Now I'd better get it before it is taken away from Medicare.

[Rob Young]

Warning: I am having both of my eyes done for lens replacement at the end of this month. Of course,I am not certain of the outcome. I hope it comes out alright,without recovery time or complications. I've had cataracts for years,and have been putting this off. Noe I'd better get it before it is taken away from Medicare.

Good luck George! Best wishes for a full and speedy recovery.

[Jerome Hanby]

Warning: I am having both of my eyes done for lens replacement at the end of this month. Of course,I am not certain of the outcome. I hope it comes out alright,without recovery time or complications. I've had cataracts for years,and have been putting this off. Now I'd better get it before it is taken away from Medicare.
Good luck with the procedure. I've had several family members and friends go through it and all of them came out of it not needing glasses at all or switching from bifocals to single lens!

[george wilson]

I mentioned the surgery in case there is a delay in ME making the screw!!