Should I choose based on Dust Collector? Sawstop vs Grizzly Cabinet Saw

[Adrian Anguiano]

Ive been borrowing a nice Jet 1.5HP 52" Contractor Saw, and its about time I return it to my cousin.

My #1 Priority is Riving Knife.
My #2 is Dust Collection.

It seems like the sawstop does both of those great but I cant pull the trigger on that price tag. The Grizzy Polar bear G0691 at 3HP for $1399 looks perfect. Great riving knife and good price for what you get. http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-3HP-220V-Cabinet-Table-Saw-with-Long-Rails-Riving-Knife/G0691

I was about to buy it until i forgot about my number 2 priority dust collection. Last night I was making some cutting boards and trimming each edge to make sure they were perfectly square and my garage fills with dust and my shirt gets pummeled with maple, cherry, and walnut. Hate breathing that in. For the most part my 1.5HP Dust Collector gets most of the dust, but those trim cuts are brutal.

Do you think its worth an extra 1500 dollars for the fancy dust collector on the Saw Stop? (I know it comes with the sawstop feature, but thats not a priority for me). Also I use a CrossCut Sled alot and that dust collector im guessing wouldnt work when im using the sled. Whats your thoughts?

[Michael MacDonald]

you probably need an overhead (blade guard) dust collector to avoid spewing dust from trimming an edge... SS just introduced that, but there are add-on products for almost any type of saw. The under-table dust collection is nice for the ss, but not perfect... perhaps the cabinet models are perfect--I just have a contractor saw. the extra 1500 is worth it for the brake... but not the dust collection.

[Jeff Monson]

A cabinet saw will have much better dust collection than most contractor saws. I agree an overhead guard with dust collection is going to really help capture dust when edge trimming. Comparing the G0691 to a Sawstop is not really comparing apples to apples. Is the SS worth $1500 more??? thats up to you, the SS is more money and should be, you are getting way more than just a brake. Dust collection on either saw will be a major step up from where you are at now.

[Adrian Anguiano]

yes I know why its worth 1500, but my decision is if the dust collection is worth 1500.

Most of the dust i get is from above the table.. would the Sawstop DC, or an Overhead Blade Guard help? is one better than the other?

[Cary Falk]

The G1023RLW has an under the table blade shroud unlike the G0691. You will still need overhead dust collection to get close to everything.

[Rick Moyer]

I may be partial as I own the G0691, but I absolutely don't think you would gain anything as far as dust collection to justify that expediture. If you want great dust collection you probably will need an over arm guard to collect off the top of the blade. I also disagree with Jeff that "you are getting way more than just a brake", as the brake is the only substantial thing that seperates these two saws, in my opinion. Put some of that $1500 toward over-the-blade collection and you'll be better off.

[Keith Hankins]

First let me state that I've been a happy user of a 1023slx for over 6 years. Great saw and does everything I ever wanted. With that being said, they're is no comparrison to a sawstop at all (again remember I've had my Griz for a long time and have their 12" jointer, 17" bandsaw, and HZ boring machine). The technology of the sawstop is worth it's price enough said. I have a 2hp 220v DC that supports my shop and the DC on the griz will be fine. The DC on the SS will be better and the new model with built in guard and hood DC is awsome. Fit & finish on the SS is a bit better but to be honest, I care more on how something cuts. I use the microjig splitter in mine with an overarm guard so again its served me well. I am currently saving for a SS cabinet saw. I've been doing WW for 30 years and while I'm safe and never had a bad incident, the brake on that sucker if activated once will be worth what you pay 10 times over.

[Adrian Anguiano]

Hey Keith,

Im currently using the microjig as well. I like it, except when ripping hardwood the kerf on the wood tends to close up a little bit on the microjig enough where i cant finish the rip because its stuck.

This is another reason why im looking forward to a true riving knife like the one on the grizzly

[Ed Hazel]

I would not by the saw stop up just for dust collection. If you want to buy the safety feature, go ahead. Almost everyone of my machines I have had to work on the dust collection aspect they never seem to be nearly as good as they could be when it comes to dust collection.

I think with any tablesaw you will need and over the blade type dust pickup. I have a 1023 but I used to have a shark guard on the net did a pretty good job of collecting the dust.

I recently added a power feeder to it as at least 95% of everything I do on the tablesaw is ripping, with the power feeder I can't even see the blade let alone get my fingers close to it.

[David Woodruff]

See my post and others on 12-29-2010 on this subject. Buy a riving knife, great protection for few $$. I would suggest Dust Collection is #1 priority. I have used the past 12 years, 3hp external filtering in my shop with attendant duct filtering to the machinery, a large Jet ceiling mounted sub-micron filtering with activated charcoal for VOCs. I have not habitually used a good mask filter. I should have purchased a Sanding Downdraft Table, and also a Spray booth filter. Overkill I think not, I have had 5 long months trying to recover from as yet un-diagnosed lung and breathing problems so significant that I now can not breathe any airborne particulates without major coughing spasms. I have also recalled a lifetime of exposure. I am almost 71 now, start protecting your lungs while you are young.
I quote again something I read "an inconvenience a few hours a day is better than being dead 24 hours a day" nuff said

[Adrian Anguiano]

okay... keith has me wondering now how important that blade shroud is inside the cabinet it if 0691 doesnt include it.

[Richard Shaefer]

I'll chime in since dust collection is important to me and I have an SS contractor saw. I also (since I am hideously cheap) have a junky 12 gallon shop vac under the extension table rigged to a tool triggered switch. It works well. It's not perfect, but what is? I'd say about 92.625% of the dust gets collected when I use the standard blade guard or making through-cuts with the riving knife, and about 1/2 gets collected when using raking down the side of a board and using it as a cheater jointer. I don't know that a full-on cabinet saw will fix that, but I would guess not.

For the $1500 difference in price between the two saws, I elected to go with the Contractor saw and spend some of the difference on the bigger fence, a mobile base, cast iron wings, and big dust collector that hangs from the rafters. As a caveat to my choice, keep in mind that when I say it works "well" I mean that I don't have to sweep up after working the shop, it all gets caught. I still end up blowing red mahogony snot out of my nose after a long day making table tops, I won't deny that.

[Kent A Bathurst]

[QUOTE=Adrian Anguiano;1609923] Most of the dust i get is from above the table.......QUOTE]

Your clean-up end-trim cuts will send most of the dust above the table, not down into the cabinet - regardless of saw brand, DC HP, nothing. There is no wood boundary on the outboard side of the cut to contain the dust and let the blade's gullets drive it down thru the slot into the cabinet - where the DC takes over. You will have to go to an above-table collection - overhead / overarm collection / pickup.

If you see yourself doing a lot of this, it might be important. For me, its not very common, so I just grab the shop vac when I'm done. Its not like that cut is the only reason my shop could use a quick vacuum - it just moves the quick-clean higher on the priority list.:D

[Aaron Berk]

NO, don't chose based on dust collection.

No factory dust collection will give you $1,500 worth of performance.

I built a ShopNotes based over arm dust collector for my saw and it CHANGED MY WORLD.

I don't own any manufactured guards/dust suckers but I bet you could spend WAY LESS then $1.5k and get results 10x better than a factory dust set up.

[Paul Wunder]

Aaron,

Would you happen to recall which issue of ShopNotes had the plans for the overarm blade guard?

Thanks

[Aaron Berk]

Aaron,

Would you happen to recall which issue of ShopNotes had the plans for the overarm blade guard?

Thanks


a youtube vid I did of the guard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz-Kc-9k5uQ

It's an old video from my old tablesaw, but the issue and volume number are on the title

[Jim O'Dell]

I agree with those that said an overhead guard would a much bigger difference dust collection wise than either of the saws mentioned would. Yes any cabinet saw will be better than a contractor saw, unless you have done some modifications to it for dust collection. What I did for my Ridgid contractor saw made it very close to a cabinet saw for dust collection.
Both the Griz 1023R series and the Saw Stop have the blade shroud, as do the PM2000, and maybe some others as well. The 691 does not, but I haven't had any problems with dust collection from the cabinet. It doesn't spew out of the cabinet. Again I have an overhead guard for safety, that incorporates a 4" line for dust collection. I also enlarged the cabinet collection port to 6" and have a cyclone that generates enough CFM to handle all of this.
I'd say get the Griz saw you like best, use some of the money to buy or build an overhead dust collector/guard, and maybe some to get a little better dust collector if what you have can't handle both hook ups well enough. Jim.

[Keith Hankins]

A true riving knife would be nice. I look at the sawstop everytime i'm in woodcraft. They really designed this thing well. The insert pops right out and the nice lever quickly releases the riving knife. Integrated dc in the riving knife and safety. It's got it all.

[Jim O'Dell]

Well, as it turns out, Adrian lives about 10 minutes or so from me! He PM'd and emailed me and we got together here at the shop. Not sure I can say which way he will go, but he got to see a Grizzly first hand, which is hard to do for most of us.
And no, I have no proof. LOML was taking a nap, and with the Chemo she's been going through, just wasn't up for company. Next time we'll get a picture, I promise. Jim.

[ken carroll]

The technology of the sawstop is worth it's price enough said..

I don't think it's enough said at all. I also don't think that the Chinese made Sawstop is worth anything like what is charged for it. I recently played with one in person, it's a decent shiny Chinese made table saw. It doesn't rip or crosscut a board any better than a Grizzly, and if safety is such a huge concern maybe a persepective SS owner should consider sticking to scroll saw work rather than the "danger" of furniture making ;-)

[Paul Ryan]

I will add my .02 A blade shroud makes a big difference in dust collection from my experience. I went from a steel city cabinet saw with the sloped floor like the G0690, to a sawstop PCS with out dust collecting guard. With a small dust collector, (at the time I was using a 1hp delta) almost all the dust from under the blade was collected very little accumulated in the cabinet. Compared to the steel city that needed to be vacuumed out every so often because it would start to built up in the corners and eventually filled up an dust collection wasn't as effective. I have never needed to vacuum out my PCS cabinet it never has more than a small amount of dust in it. The top of the table on the SS did stay cleaner due to suction closer to the table as well. The new blade guard arrived in the mail about 1 year later. Using the blade guard for most cuts that the blade is totally inclosed results in very very little dust comming from the saw. If you are doing trim cuts, where the blade is exposed some dust is spewed out from under the guard. I also was giving the opportunity to test a "shark guard" against the sawstop blade guard (below is a link to my review and comparison of each).

From my experiences if the brake on the SS, and premium fit and finish means nothing to you, stick with a grizzly saw, there are very well regarded and add on a "shark guard" this will get you much better dust collection that you are experiencing with a conrtactor saw. But for $1500 extra you can buy a premium saw with better dust collection (IMHO) than you will achieve with add ons to a grizzly, and a 2nd to none saftey option. It is a one time purchase with either saw you shouldn't need to replace them in your lifetime, with proper care and maintenance. Until that next NEW gotta have feature is designed, patented, and marketed.




http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?126839-Shark-Guard-vs-Sawstop-PCS-guard&highlight=

[Adrian Anguiano]

Thanks everyone for the help, and especially Jim for giving me a first hand look at his Grizz!

Looks like I'll be ordering my own bear this week! Yahooo

[Laguna Tools]

You should check out some of our saws! www.lagunatools.com


Ive been borrowing a nice Jet 1.5HP 52" Contractor Saw, and its about time I return it to my cousin.

My #1 Priority is Riving Knife.
My #2 is Dust Collection.

It seems like the sawstop does both of those great but I cant pull the trigger on that price tag. The Grizzy Polar bear G0691 at 3HP for $1399 looks perfect. Great riving knife and good price for what you get. http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-3HP-220V-Cabinet-Table-Saw-with-Long-Rails-Riving-Knife/G0691

I was about to buy it until i forgot about my number 2 priority dust collection. Last night I was making some cutting boards and trimming each edge to make sure they were perfectly square and my garage fills with dust and my shirt gets pummeled with maple, cherry, and walnut. Hate breathing that in. For the most part my 1.5HP Dust Collector gets most of the dust, but those trim cuts are brutal.

Do you think its worth an extra 1500 dollars for the fancy dust collector on the Saw Stop? (I know it comes with the sawstop feature, but thats not a priority for me). Also I use a CrossCut Sled alot and that dust collector im guessing wouldnt work when im using the sled. Whats your thoughts?

[Rick Moyer]

You should check out some of our saws!
Wow, that MTSO200-180 has a case of the "zackly's", as in, it looks "zackly" like my G0691 Grizzly!

[Chris Padilla]

Has anyone witnessed the PM2000's dust collection? It also has a shroud if memory serves.

[Jim O'Dell]

You should check out some of our saws! www.lagunatools.com (http://www.lagunatools.com)

Laguna, I, for one, did look at your offering of this same saw online. In fact it was what made many of us question Grizzly about what type of motor the 690/691 came with and found out it was the Leeson also. There are a couple differences between the 2 offerings. Though minor, one specifically addresses Adrian's original priorities. The Laguna comes with an extruded piece of aluminum to make the miter gauge easier to work with longer pieces of wood. In fact, I've been looking for a piece that I could add to my Grizzly miter gauge to do the same thing. The other difference is that the Laguna doesn't, or at least didn't (please let us know if this has changed) come with the short riving knife, only the splitter/guard that only works on through cuts. Of these two differences, the short riving knife was very important to me. I use a sled for most all of my precision angle cuts on the TS, so while nice, the aluminum extrusion for the miter gauge was not critical. The short knife was mandatory. Jim.

[Jeff Monson]

Has anyone witnessed the PM2000's dust collection? It also has a shroud if memory serves.

It does have a blade shroud, I used to own a PM200 and I'd say the dust collection was quite good, especailly compared to a contractor saw. There was always alot of dust buildup in the bottom of the cabinet though. I'd vacuum it out
every month or two, but there were times where I had 2" or better piled up. I did read from other owners that had the same experience with the buildup.

[Joe Leigh]

I own a PM2000 and the dust collection is excellent. Like Jeff said there will be some dust left in the cabinet, that cannot be avoided as the shroud cannot totally capture all the dust. No shroud can. It's really not that big of an issue, just open the hinged door once a week or month and vacuum out the cabinet.

[Adrian Anguiano]

I went with the Grizzly 1023 because of the blade shroud, and yes the short riving knife was my first priority.

Get this. I placed the order Tuesday Afternoon and UPS just called and said they are bringing it tomorrow (Thursday). That's less than 48 Hour Service!! Gotta love that.

[Van Huskey]

Has anyone witnessed the PM2000's dust collection? It also has a shroud if memory serves.

Mine seems about even with the new PCS. That said an overarm guard with dust collection gets most of the last little bit that is often the most frustrating because it is being thrown at you.

[Aaron Berk]

SWEET!!!! that's wicked fast service.

Make sure you post pics. :D

[Jim O'Dell]

Adrian, get things cleaned up, unpacked and make sure you have all the parts and we'll get together Saturday to tune it up. Jim.

[Adrian Anguiano]

Sounds good Jim.

Apparently Kansas is awful right now and they are going to bring it Friday now.... Hopefully.

Darn Mother Nature. :)

[Adrian Anguiano]

The Grizzly 1023RLX arrived. Special thanks to Jim for helping me assemble and precisely tune it to perfection.

Ill do a full review after i get some good use. Here are a few pics during assembly. And a close up of the blade shroud which was the reason i picked this saw as opposed to other riving knife saws.

Oh yea.... i have two nickle photos. The first photo one nickel failed. But then I realized the saw is so powerful the wind blast from the blade knocked it down. So i moved the nickle to the side of the blade and it passed the nickle test. No vibration during start and while running. Must be the serpentine belt.

Thanks for all the help everyone.



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