Kreg pocket rocket

[Christian Aufreiter]

Hi folks,

I already performed a search but could hardly find any useful information about the Kreg pocket rocket.
Please tell me how you like, what you use it for and how it compares to the K2000.

Background of this question:
Pocket holes (as well as pocket hole jigs) seem to be very unpopular at my neck of the woods, a consequence of the fact that face frame cabinets are rather uncommon too. Actually, I know of only two pocket hole jigs that are available here:
1) The Trend (http://www.elektrowerkzeugversand.de/cgi-bin/ezshop/catalog.cgi?category1=Produkte/Bits%20und%20Snappy/Schraub-Fix) which is probably similar to the K2000 but maybe a little overpriced in my book.
2) This Wolfcraft jig (http://www.wolfcraft.de//en/produkte/products/productDetailcc71.html?countryID=EU&languageID=en&prdSN=7828) which appears to be basically constructed like the pocket rocket. IMO it’s reasonably priced.

Now I know that Wolfcraft stuff is usually not top-notch quality but a pro cabinetmaker and woodworking class teacher who has always provided good information so far claims that the Wolfcraft jig is really useful. An advantage of the Wolfcraft jig is that the included drill also works like a counter sink and as a result this cabinetmaker reports that he uses common Spax screws without any troubles.
I don’t know how much and how often I’d use pocket holes as I bought a biscuit joiner last year which I really like but I’d like to have the opportunity to use pocket holes because you never know what will happen and if it couldn’t be handy some day :D .
What’s your advice?
Should I get the Wolfcraft jig or wait a little longer and buy a Kreg when I really need it?

Thanks.

Christian

[Michael Ballent]

If you can wait why not wait until you actually need it? Unless you have money burning in your pocket and you are looking for an excuse to buy a new toy :D

[Mark Singer]

Christian,

As a woodworker you need to shift gears sometimes and fit the method to the type of cabinet or work. I have built cabinets that are all hand joined and also basic cabinet construction. For even European cabinets without the face frame, a Kreg jig is a great tool! It is fast strong and acurate. I even use it for drawers. It is not at the highest level of the cabinet makers craft, true. But neither are Siematic, Bulthap. or Boffi....they look great are designed well ...but are basic carcasses from man made materials.

[Scott Coffelt]

Christian,

Both are nice. I started with the Rocket and the upgraded to the whole Pro Kit. The Rocket came with it along with the Mini. I sold my Rocket. If you have the funds, I would opt for the Pro Kit and then you'll be covered.

[Christian Aufreiter]

Thanks for your responses. I'll probably save a little longer and get the Pro Pack, although the idea of using commonly available Spax screws along with the Wolfcraft is worth a thought.
I definitely agree on what Mark said. There are many different construction methods which all work pretty well. Sometimes it's a matter of personal preferences which joints we use.

Regards,

Christian

[Jim Becker]

I have one, but rarely use it. Where it comes in handy is for cutting a pocket in tight quarters on a project already partially assembled. It's also good for use when something is a bit big and unwieldy to use the regular jig.

[Dale Thompson]

Christian,
I've got the ProPack and love it. I use it every time that I can, even on edge-joining when it is appropriate. My DeWalt Biscuit Joiner, though a great machine, has taken a real back seat since I got the Kreig System.

Maybe the bigger "production" shops that have all of the glueing jigs would rather go in another direction. For my small shop, however, the ProPack is super! I've even gotten to like the "square-drive" screws that obviate extended clamping. :) :) No more black eyes or bruised shins from that old "forest" of pipe clamps. :o :( :eek: :)

Dale T.

[Christian Aufreiter]

Thanks again, guys.

Just in the case you don't already know, there's a variety of fasteners (http://www.knapp.verbinder.com/en.html) for biscuit slots which allow to work without clamps.

Regards,

Christian

[William Lai]

Christian: I've seen these metal/plastic biscuits in Lee Valley's catalog in North America, but have not heard of anyone using them. Have you any hands on experience with them? If I remember them correctly, each "biscuit" is actually two halves that slide together in parallel.

For Pocket Hole joinery, what do folks use for clamps when joining right angle pieces? I have the face clamp that Kreg includes in the Pro Kit, but that's only really useful for face frame like situations. I've tried using the Rockler assembly corner "L" with clamps, but it's so awkward and time consuming compared to the pocket holes themselves.

[JayStPeter]

Christian,

There is a version that is cheaper than the rocket. I think the mini. The mini with the drill bit and stop is around $20 here in the US. It's a good way to get familiar with pocket hole joinery for very little money.
I used one for a couple years before finally upgrading to the pro pack. Since the pro pack comes with another mini, I just gave the old one to a friend.

Jay

[Dale Thompson]

For Pocket Hole joinery, what do folks use for clamps when joining right angle pieces? I have the face clamp that Kreg includes in the Pro Kit, but that's only really useful for face frame like situations.

Hi William,
I'm not sure I understand your problem. I've used the Kreig clamp for both right angle butt joints and miters. If you have the smaller plate of the clamp on the same side of the joint as the screw holes, you should have plenty of room to drive the screws. :confused: :)

Dale T.

[Christian Aufreiter]

Christian: I've seen these metal/plastic biscuits in Lee Valley's catalog in North America, but have not heard of anyone using them. Have you any hands on experience with them? If I remember them correctly, each "biscuit" is actually two halves that slide together in parallel.


Hi William,

correct, those "biscuits" consist of two parts. There are differences between the various types, for example, some of them are reversible, some are permanent, some must be knocked in, others glued, etc.
Unfortunately, I have no first hand experiences. I've emailed Knapp and got a few samples but I haven't tried them yet. A pro cabinetmaker who provided excellent information when I tried to decided between the different biscuit joiners definitely recommends them. I think they might be quite useful when working on large cabinets if you run out of clamps.

Regards,

Christian

[Wendell Wilkerson]

Hi William,
I'm not sure I understand your problem. I've used the Kreig clamp for both right angle butt joints and miters. If you have the smaller plate of the clamp on the same side of the joint as the screw holes, you should have plenty of room to drive the screws. :confused: :)

Dale T.

I think he means situations where you are joining across the width like attaching the top/bottom to the sides of a basic cabinet carcass. In these situation, you can't use the supplied clamps.

Wendell

[Christian Aufreiter]

Hi guys,

thanks again for your comments.
Just to make clear why I placed my question, I don’t think that I immediately need a pocket hole jig (no matter which type).
Anyway, if I got a jig there are ONLY THESE TWO options for me:
- Kreg Pro Pack: Most versatile but I’d have to import it from the USA which is not as simple as it sounds, due to shipping and customs. Another disadvantage is that I can’t use standard Spax screws and those special pocket hole screws are not commonly available.
- Wolfcraft jig: Not as versatile but cheaper, can be used with common Spax screws and it is available here.

So as you see, both options have advantages and disadvantage, I’m just thinking which one offers the best compromise.

William, if I understood correctly, you were talking about cabinets. How about using an angle clamp?

Regards,

Christian

[William Lai]

Right Wendell, I'm talking about cabinets side and top, as an example. Does anyone have a recommendation for an angle clamp that they like with pocket hole assembly? I've seen the Jet ones but they don't seem to be very tight in its hold. Kreg sells one that inserts into the drilled pocket hole, any experience with them?

[Keith Christopher]

I have one, but rarely use it. Where it comes in handy is for cutting a pocket in tight quarters on a project already partially assembled. It's also good for use when something is a bit big and unwieldy to use the regular jig.

I have the rocket because I'm usually building frames that are "a bit big and unwieldy to use the regular jig" and it works perfectly. I have no complaints. I don't do a ton of pocket joints so I don't pull it out often but when I do, flawless, well it not me I'm totally flawed.


Keith

[JayStPeter]

Right Wendell, I'm talking about cabinets side and top, as an example. Does anyone have a recommendation for an angle clamp that they like with pocket hole assembly? I've seen the Jet ones but they don't seem to be very tight in its hold. Kreg sells one that inserts into the drilled pocket hole, any experience with them?

I got one when I bought the propack at the show. So far, every time I've really wanted to quickly clamp an edge, the pocket holes have been on the inside making it useless.
One thing I have noticed is that the kreg clamps for face frames (ya know, the ones with two flat plates) are pretty weak. They only really work with no glue in the joint. Otherwise, they slip.
The one that slips into the pocket hole is a good bit beefier, but I'm still not optomistic that it'll hold a glue joint in place.

Jay

[Scott Loven]

Here is a review (http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/reviews/kregk2000.htm#RAC) of the kreg right angle clamps

[Dan Gill]

Remember that the Pro Pack comes with the Rocket and the mini as well as the larger jig. I couldn't pass it up, and it made building my kitchen cabinet much easier.

[Wendell Wilkerson]

Right Wendell, I'm talking about cabinets side and top, as an example. Does anyone have a recommendation for an angle clamp that they like with pocket hole assembly? I've seen the Jet ones but they don't seem to be very tight in its hold. Kreg sells one that inserts into the drilled pocket hole, any experience with them?

I just bought some of these : 3-D Precision Squares (http://www.mcfeelys.com/product.asp?ProductID=jss-0005)

What I plan to do is use the squares to help me clamp up a basic carcass like I would for a glue up. Then insert the desired mechanical fastener. I plan to use an air stapler but I don't see why it wouldn't work for pocket screws. If you do not want to clamp the whole thing up, you might try the squares and F-clamps. I don't think spring clamps would hold it tight enough to drive the pocket screws.

Wendell

[Frank Pellow]

...
I've even gotten to like the "square-drive" screws
...
Dale T.
What to get to like? I would have expected that you, like most other folks I know, would instantly prefer square drive (that is Robertson) screws. In Canada, I would guess that about 90% of the screws stocked in stores are Robertson.

[Jim W. White]

I have one of the right angle clamps and it works very well!! As mentioned in the review linked above, you do have to use it with caution on soft woods as it's quite a bit of clamp, and will easily wow-out a pocket hole (drilled in soft wood) if not used carefully. Usually when I'm framing something out in pine or poplar, however, I don't really care what the finished pocket hole looks like as I'm not using it in an exposed location.

...Jim in Idaho

[Dale Thompson]

What to get to like? I would have expected that you, like most other folks I know, would instantly prefer square drive (that is Robertson) screws. In Canada, I would guess that about 90% of the screws stocked in stores are Robertson.

Frank,
I'm ALWAYS a bit behind. It was only six months ago that I learned that most nails are no longer made one-at-a-time by blacksmiths. :o Gee, and I wanted to be a blacksmith in my next reincarnation. :( :)

Dale T.