Ebay Planes!

[Nathan Dekens]

Well im starting on assembling my plane collection after finding that I couldnt find any decent planes that were made in the good old USA and in my price range. So I picked up two used stanley's a No. 4 and a 6C.

Im wondering if I made a good choice (knowing that I will have to clean them up) for a couple of planes that I plan on using. I paid about $65 for the 6c and $35 for the 4.

Hear is a link to the photos:

https://picasaweb.google.com/NateDekens/NewToys11111710AM?feat=directlink

[john brenton]

Depends on how they work I suppose. Looking at the 6 I'd say that it's not particularly desirable from a collectors standpoint, but the sole looks like it's in good condition. The mouth looks right. Probably a nice user on softer woods.

The 4 looks promising. Of all the metal planes the #4 is the coolest to admire. You just want to pick them up and hold them in your hand. The crack on the handle is workable, the mouth looks nice, but I'm interested to see what people have to say about the knob. I don't know that fours originally came with the squatty knob. It looks more like the kind of knob you find on the scraper planes. I know next to nothing about Stanley planes...so why am I commenting? I don't know. Bored I guess!

[Sam Takeuchi]

them up and hold them in your hand. The crack on the handle is workable, the mouth looks nice, but I'm interested to see what people have to say about the knob. I don't know that fours originally came with the squatty knob. It looks more like the kind of knob you find on the scraper planes.

That's a typical low knob. Stanley planes before type 12 came with a low knob like that. Some people prefer low knob over tall ones.

As for those planes, they are fine. Once you clean it and tune it, they should be as good as any. You might want to pay little attention to the handle on that #4 since it looks like repaired section broke off and was glued back again, but if it's holding well, it should be fine I think. Also V-logo blade on #4 looks pretty short now. Perhaps invest in a quality replacement blade would do you good.

[Matt Radtke]

I'd agree--the 6 might be of a "less desirable" vintage, but so what? So is my 8 and it's probably my favorite plane.

The knob on the 4 could certainly be right. The low knob is from the earlier types. Potential for a real jem there.

[Bill Houghton]

Those look pretty decent.

In metal planes, for the most part, there will be some overlap in potential function, depending on how you sharpen the iron and set the mouth (yes, you can adjust the frog to make a larger or smaller mouth, but it's not something to do regularly - can be a bit of a hassle).

I happen to like the No. 6. It is more work than a No. 5, which is lighter and narrower, but will accomplish a lot of the same functions.

One way to set these up for your use:

Sharpen the iron on the No. 6 with a bit of a camber (curve), and you can use it for roughing down the stock, getting it flat (surfaces) and straight (edges). You'll want a moderately open mouth, big enough for the shavings the cambered iron will generate.

The No. 4 should have a straight iron with the corners ever-so-slightly rounded, and a small mouth. You'll use this for smoothing the work once you've got it flat. The No. 4 looks like an early model. Mine of this general era has a naturally pretty small mouth (later planes tended to have more or less the same "default" mouth size regardless of length).

Most important is learning to sharpen. You'll read, and probably hear about here, all kinds of advice on tuning up a plane. I won't deny that it's useful advice, and someday maybe I'll even apply it; but the Number One tune up is a sharp iron. This skill takes some time to learn, but hang in there; you'll look back in a year at what you thought was sharp and wonder how you could have been so silly as to think that.

You will also read posts from folks who are re-japanning their planes and doing all sorts of other cosmetic things to them. If this floats your boat, great; but it's not woodworking. My No. 8 jointer (24" long, twice as heavy at the end of a planing session as at the beginning) has no visible japanning left at all. It still makes shavings just fine.

Read every book you can find in your local library on the subject. You'll find contradictory advice, which just demonstrates that there are multiple ways to pet a cat. Experiment, observe, learn, and you'll come up with the techniques that work for you; and, as you go, you'll learn new ones and set aside things that worked at first but aren't as good as what you learn later.

As you go, you'll find your initial toolkit has its limits. It sounds like you're operating on a budget, so don't be going out and buying things because you might need them; with two exceptions (later paragraph), wait until you're frustrated by the limits of your tools before buying more.

Exceptions to waiting: You should have a block plane; there are so many uses for these little wonders. A Stanley 60 or 60-1/2 (the difference is in finish, not function) is probably best, but others are OK too. Incidentally, people gravitate toward Stanley, but Millers Falls, Union, and Sargent made good tools too. All these companies also made marginal tools; do your research as to the qualities you should be seeking. Patrick Leach's Blood and Gore (http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0.htm) is one, opinionated but useful, source. Garrett Hack's "The Hand Plane Book" is a good resource; see if your library has it. Between this and "Planecraft," a reprint of a British book (about $15 at Woodcraft, that or less at the online booksellers), you can get a good education on plane setup and use.

And don't neglect chisels. Every year, I find myself respecting these simple little tools more. With practice, you can remove a shaving almost as thin as those you can get with a plane, but without the constraints of the plane's body. You'll most often use 1/4" and either 3/8" or 1/2" (I'd get the 1/2", but that may be because that's what I'm accustomed to). A wider chisel, 3/4" or 1", is also useful. Go for "bench chisels."

When it comes time to get additional tools for the kit, if you don't live in an area with tool-rich garage/estate sales or don't have the time to troll, then the classifieds here, or some of the respectable online sellers, can be good sources, without the high anxiety of eBay, and more certainty as to the quality of what you're getting. You might (might) pay a small premium over your best deals on eBay, but with more reliability. Some eBay sellers are quite knowledgeable and describe what they're offering well. Others seem to have picked up a tool as part of a box lot of what they really sell (beanie babies, pots and pans, who knows?), and know nothing about the tool; so you can wind up with a broken tool or a dog. Heck, even knowledgeable people can miss things. I was at one of the first estate sales of the new year Saturday, and was talking with a dealer (by which I mean buyer and reseller) I've gotten to know, and he showed me a jack plane he'd picked up, asking my advice on it. I spotted immediately that the frog was broken off up at the lateral adjuster, which convinced him to set it aside; he'd missed it totally. He'd probably have purchased it, to his regret, if we hadn't looked at it together. This is not to brag; I think it was the act of the two of us looking at it that caused the closer look.

[john brenton]

Someone mentioned cleaning up and I concur that you shouldn't go overboard. Paste wax and some kind of softer metal scraper, like a razor blade, or three corner file with the teeth ground off, then followed with a buff with some fine steel wool is all I would do to it. If you remove all the patina you expose fresh metal to be rusted. If you wanted to go balls out and expose the fresh metal and buff it to a shine you could, but I don't see any point to that.

Also, just a side note, I try to keep everything the same. For example, the brass nuts are easy to clean, but you don't want a beaming shiny brass nut on a mellow patina plane. I just do the wax treatment on everything and leave it alone. The wax with the steel wool usually brings the handles back to life too, without needing any additional treatment. Intuitively I would think that I wouldn't want a waxed handle, but once it dries and you buff it out thoroughly it's fine and I like the feel. It's like holding a giant lumber crayon.

[Chuck Nickerson]

Bill mentions putting a strong camber on the blade for the #6.

I've got a 16" radius on my #6 blade. That makes it a great tool for when my jack plane (8" radius) is too aggressive.

[Nathan Dekens]

Thanks for the response! I mainly wanted to find out if I wasted my money on junk unusable planes or not. I already got a garage full of power tools and mainly wanted to purchase these guys to level a small workbench im going to build out of some redwood 4x4 cutoffs.

Im sort of in a transition stage of converting my old toys and hobbies into wood working tools and also in the process of paying down debt due to California's gracious furlough friday policy that has hosed me for the last 2 years and more months to come; so needless to say I'm trying to stretch my dollar as far as I can.

[Johnny Kleso]

The No.4 has two problems one huge..
One broken handle but fixable
Two is the chipped in the body not a issue for use but huge for resale..

If they both where in one auction its a OK deal but if it was two auctions and you paid shipping and auction price for the No.4 its not a deal I would want to make again...

Take you time and wait for deals on eBay
Save pictures to your desktop and using the picture viewer in windows use the zoom tool to get a better look..
You can also use the zoom tool in Internet Explorer in the lower right corner of the browser window..
Also always ask seller to check for cracks most often in corner of the mouth and on the sides of the humps

I have several planes to resale I have bought and need handles and find its a big issue to resale them now...
People dont seem to care about the hours of work that has gone into refinishing them only that they have broken or missing handles..

[Nathan Dekens]

The No.4 has two problems one huge..
One broken handle but fixable
Two is the chipped in the body not a issue for use but huge for resale..

If they both where in one auction its a OK deal but if it was two auctions and you paid shipping and auction price for the No.4 its not a deal I would want to make again...

Take you time and wait for deals on eBay
Save pictures to your desktop and using the picture viewer in windows use the zoom tool to get a better look..
You can also use the zoom tool in Internet Explorer in the lower right corner of the browser window..
Also always ask seller to check for cracks most often in corner of the mouth and on the sides of the humps

I have several planes to resale I have bought and need handles and find its a big issue to resale them now...
People dont seem to care about the hours of work that has gone into refinishing them only that they have broken or missing handles..

Well im not looking for a tool to resale just want a decent plane to use for years to come. The broken handle I can fix and the chip dosnt really bother me. Just didnt want to pay too much for something. Thanks!

[Paul Incognito]

Your planes look like they'll be good users once you tune them up.
There's some good advice in everyone's posts. The only thing I'll add is that I find there's better quality tools and better pricing for the most part on the SMC classifieds and some of the tool sellers that have been mentioned in lots of previous posts.
My 2 cents.
PI

[Jim Koepke]

Nathen,

My opinion is the best advise above involved reading. My suggestion is to start right here on SMC:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?103805-Neanderthal-wisdom-FAQs

Your profile does not indicate your location. If you are anywhere near the Portland, Oregon area, you would be welcome in my shop to try other planes to see what you might like. You could also bring your planes to get some tune up tips.

If you are not in this area, there may be others who would be willing to help you get started in the area of hand planes and tools.

There is not enough detail in your pictures to verify my opinion on your #4, but it looks like it could be a type 5 due to the knob. If that is the case, the blade is not the original. Which leads me to believe that plane may have seen a lot of use. A plane that gets a lot of use is usually because it worked well and the owner took care of it.

With the blade off, where the lateral adjuster meets the blade, is there just a flat spot from the lever being turned up or is there a disk? Also look inside the brass depth adjuster. Dirt may be covering up the patent dates inside. My most used planes are from this time period.

I have a pair of #6s. One is often used on my shooting board if something wider than my main shooting plane is needed. The other is often used as a short jointer. None of my planes have been set up with blade camber since most of my lumber is already dimensioned. If you use a lot of rough lumber, then a plane set up as a scrub plane could be something you may want to consider.

You will find with patience and diligence you will be able to find some planes at very good prices.

As to refinishing, most of the time I do not take the time to refinish my planes. Also, the patina on planes does offer some protection from rust. A plane that has been cleaned and sanded on the sides may look good for awhile, but the metal will start to rust very quickly if it is not protected.

I do like the feel of a fresh coat of enamel on the surface against my hands as compared to crackled paint and rust.

My worries are seldom about the collector value of my planes. Most of the time, if my plane had high collector value it would be sold to buy a similar plane without the collector value. My planes have user value and that is good enough for me.

jtk

[Johnny Kleso]

I wish the condition of your planes where the worst I ever bought but they are not..
My advice is dont buy broken or damaged planes unless they are way to good to pass up and try not to no matter what..
It often turns out to cost more than than you though..
Often the blade needs a lot of work and you will need a bench grinder and an hour of more of timme to get them in user condition..

I just want to say if your buying a tool make it a tool that you will be happy with for a long long time...
I must have bought 200-300 planes in the last 15 years and his is just my opinion..

[John Powers]

I'd buy from sellers on this forum and woodnet.net. If a guys got 500 posts he's not going to misrepresent. I use a no 7 I got from member here and it was fairly priced. I got a nice no 5 from eBay but the Crack in the tote was not mentioned. Do not hurry. There are a load of nice planes around. 3,4,5 I think $40.00 is the going rate.