Circular saws and track saws

[Karl Card]

I am looking for a solution to a problem... gee most of us are I suppose...
Anyway I need a good circular saw. I also am in need of a panel saw. I am at a point where I have not ever used a panel saw except for at Home Depot. Circular saw I have used but not ever with a track. It appears I can built a DIY panel saw for around 400 to 500 dollars. I am also looking at the DeWalt DWS520SK track saw setup that I can get new for 399. The few reviews that I have read for the DWS520SK are very, very positive. I am in a basement shop and have to be sort of consertive for room but at the same time I do have room for a panel saw as long as it is on wheels.

The main question I have to anyone that has used or owns the DWS520SK setup is this, is 12 amps enough power? I will mostly be cutting 3/4 inch wood and maybe even some a little thicker maybe up to 2 inches thick. I am wondering if I should get an after market track with a 15 amp saw of choice, the dewalt DWS520SK , or just build a panel saw. I dont work with wood for a living but I do plan on building things as a hobby and I am also redoing a house that was built in the early part of the century and am building alot of built in items. I also plan on after the house is done to still build large items for friends, family and whoever likes my woodwork. With this in mind I am open to opinions, suggestions and thoughts.

Thanks for reading.

[Michael Schneider]

I had the same problem you are trying to solve:

1) basement shop
2) need to cut plywood

The following worked for me:

1) Bought a hilti 267 saw . Great saw, but no longer available. If I was buying today, I would pick up a Makita 5008.

2) bought rail kit from eurekzone http://www.eurekazone.com/content/ez-track-system-118

I break down the plywood outside, and carry pieces down to shop. This has worked out quite well. They have a new product out to rip plywood that looks nice. I will likely pick one up this spring. You may be able to buy this instead of the rail.

http://www.eurekazone.com/content/ez-ripsizer-25

Dino is very helpful, just give him a ring and he will explain some options for the problem you are trying to solve.



This setup eliminated the need for a panel saw in my shop.

Of course, if you really want a panel saw, you can always get one :-)

Just another option for your consideration. There are many ways to accurately slice a sheet a plywood. I wish you luck in selecting the best one for your shop :-)

happy woodworking,
Mike

[William M Johnson]

+1 On the EZ Smart System. I have a PM66 with slider etc and no longer use it. I really prefer the EZ Smart (Eurekazone) system to the others for several reasons not the least of which is the "anti splinter" strips. These provide a much cleaner cut than either the table saw or the Dewalt system. Make sure that you build the table. It is a brilliant idea that I use all the time. I would get the hardware for it even if I decided on another system.

My $0.02

[Joe Angrisani]

I'm not sure what volume of cutting you're doing, but perhaps a good circular saw and a couple of homemade guides/jigs will do the trick. I have one that's 54" long and one that's 96" long. Simple construction with a 1/4" hardboard base with another narrower piece of 1/4" hardboard as the guide for the saw base. Glue it up, let it dry, and make a pass with the saw to make a "perfect" edge. Line up that edge on your cut marks, and bingo: wonderful, straight cuts. Make sure it's wide enough on the guide side for in-use clamps to clear your saw.

It's a lot more compact than a panel saw. But it depends on how much plywood you cut down on a regular basis.

[Andrew Joiner]

Karl, If you're in a walk out basement I'd go for the vertical panel saw. If I was carrying 4x8 sheets down stairs I'd get so tired I wouldn't have the energy to cut them up!
With only an occasional sheet to cut I'd go for a track saw or homemade straight edge and cut them before going downstairs.
The problem with track saws is getting repeatable cuts. With a stop or sliding against the bottom fence you get accurate repeatable cuts on a panel saw.

I had a Safety Speed Cut from 1970 to 2005. You get splinter free cuts with good blades. Now in my hobby wood shop, I use a vertical panel saw that I made. I get cutting accuracy of 1/64" straight and square just like my old Safety Speed Cut.

The vertical saws are the way to go for 1 person, if you store your sheets on edge. I can slide sheets thru without scratching veneer faces.

A vertical saw and storage take up less space. You can flip thru sheets on edge with less effort.

One key thing to cut quality on these verticals ,shopmade or mass produced, is to use a saw with no wobble in the bearings. Test for wobble by shaking the blade sideways and feel for play. On a good saw the blade will bend a little but no play.

[Chris Padilla]

Festool also has a good system for the guided saw tool. I especially like their dust control and it is the one reason I plunked down lottsa dollars to get into the Festool line. Eurekazone is cheaper I think but I believe Festool still leads the way in dust control (if that is important to you).

I use 2" thick sheets of foamboard (used for insulation) to lay my plywood down on for cutting and I just do it in the driveway or shop floor.

[Van Huskey]

These provide a much cleaner cut than either the table saw or the Dewalt system.

My $0.02

Really, I think you may be the first I have heard suggest that the EZ Smart provides a cleaner cut than system tracksaws like Dewalt and Festool which both have anti-splinter strips. It has been my experience that given a equal blade and equal condition of the anti-splitter strips the three are essentially equal.

[Jon McElwain]

I went the Festool Track Saw route. The saw produces great cuts with little or no tear out on plywood. It is a little more versatile that the typical panel saw in that it can cut perpendicular to an edge, or, it can cut angles. The Festool and Dewalt track saw systems are also plunge saws. This means that you can easily start or stop a cut in the middle of a board without having to back the saw out of the cut, or lifting the saw out of the cut. I used to use a skillsaw with a home made rail to break down plywood (this was before I had a 50" rail tablesaw or a tracksaw). I was able to get reasonable cuts, but the setup was time consuming (too much measuring) and the quality was marginal. The tracksaws have a splinter guard that corresponds to the edge of the cut you wish to make. So, you mark the endpoints of your cut, then clamp the track with the splinter guard directly on the marks. The cut is made along this line. I actually get better results with the track saw than I do with the table saw on plywood breakdown because I am only handling the tracksaw during the cut, not the entire piece of plywood. The Festool is plenty strong to cut the 3/4" plywood and I would suspect that the Dewalt is as well. I recently cut some 8/4 white oak with the tracksaw with great results and power to spare. In my opinion, unless you are cutting A LOT of plywood perpendicular to the sides, a panel saw is too big and too expensive. This is of course relative to every ones budget and space, but I can not see myself needing one with my current work.

[Steven DeMars]

I have the Dewalt Track Saw & I love it . . .

Table Saw quality cuts every time . . .

Steve

[Chris Padilla]

For those with the DeWalt track: does it always need to be clamped down? I'm pretty sure I've never clamped the Festool track; it grips nicely on its own.

[David Prince]

For those with the DeWalt track: does it always need to be clamped down? I'm pretty sure I've never clamped the Festool track; it grips nicely on its own.

You do not need to clamp the Dewalt down, but is does get a little slippery on melamine surfaces. On wood surfaces it holds tight. I usually clamp it if I am cutting 1/4 ply because the sheet gets a little floppy.

[Van Huskey]

For those with the DeWalt track: does it always need to be clamped down? I'm pretty sure I've never clamped the Festool track; it grips nicely on its own. I haven't tried mine on melamine but it is just as "sticky" on plywood as the Festool.

[Scott Vigder]

I use the EZ Smart [Eurekazone] system and have a dedicated circular saw for it. It takes me about 10 minutes to set up my EZ Table, make my cuts, then disassemble the table. All in all a clever system that yields excellent results.

[Craig Michael]

The festool and makita will work on each others tracks and most of the festool accessories work on the Makita track. Just for the interchangeable aspect, I'd stay with either the festool or makita. I have the TS 55 from festool and it works great.

[Karl Card]

lots of good info here. I have a feeling that it is going to come down to whatever I get the best deal on, then go and get the other one...lol isnt that how it works...

[Jerome Hanby]

I originally bought the PSI portable panel saw. I use it with my Hitachi Circular saw. It works well out of the box, but works even better after adding some hardboard to the rails. I eventually bought a Festool and it works even better! But the PSI rails are long enough to cut a full sheet of plywood diagonally and there is a carriage available to hold a router, so I still see using it in the future.

[John Morrison60]

Karl
You are on the right path.
I made a cutting table using some 2x4 and folding legs from H.D.
With this, and my rail guided Festool saw in my garage,
I never take a 4 x 8 sheet into my basement shop.
That provides flexibility in location of the T.S. and works great.

Good luck
John

[johnny means]

Karl, I think the panel saw would be a waste of space and resources. Vertical panel saws are only good at one thing, especially the type you're thinking of. I have in my shop a 10' SCMI slider, a Sawstop, and a Hammer B3 and in my tool box I have a Fetool track saw. I can honestly say that in a less hectic environment the Festool would easily do anything and everything those others do and eat up zero floor space and be portable. You can build a very mediocre panel saw for $400-$500 or you can buy an awesome track saw and spend the time building furniture. Unless you're one of those that like making your own machines.

[Van Huskey]

The festool and makita will work on each others tracks and most of the festool accessories work on the Makita track. Just for the interchangeable aspect, I'd stay with either the festool or makita. I have the TS 55 from festool and it works great.

The Dewalt works on the Festool track as well, just not the other way around.

[Charles Wiggins]

I went the Festool Track Saw route. The saw produces great cuts with little or no tear out on plywood. It is a little more versatile that the typical panel saw in that it can cut perpendicular to an edge, or, it can cut angles. The Festool and Dewalt track saw systems are also plunge saws. This means that you can easily start or stop a cut in the middle of a board without having to back the saw out of the cut, or lifting the saw out of the cut. I used to use a skillsaw with a home made rail to break down plywood (this was before I had a 50" rail tablesaw or a tracksaw). I was able to get reasonable cuts, but the setup was time consuming (too much measuring) and the quality was marginal. The tracksaws have a splinter guard that corresponds to the edge of the cut you wish to make. So, you mark the endpoints of your cut, then clamp the track with the splinter guard directly on the marks. The cut is made along this line. I actually get better results with the track saw than I do with the table saw on plywood breakdown because I am only handling the tracksaw during the cut, not the entire piece of plywood. The Festool is plenty strong to cut the 3/4" plywood and I would suspect that the Dewalt is as well. I recently cut some 8/4 white oak with the tracksaw with great results and power to spare. In my opinion, unless you are cutting A LOT of plywood perpendicular to the sides, a panel saw is too big and too expensive. This is of course relative to every ones budget and space, but I can not see myself needing one with my current work.

+1 to everything Jon said (except the 8/4 oak thing).

[David epstein]

I am looking for a solution to a problem... gee most of us are I suppose...
Anyway I need a good circular saw. I also am in need of a panel saw. I am at a point where I have not ever used a panel saw except for at Home Depot. Circular saw I have used but not ever with a track. It appears I can built a DIY panel saw for around 400 to 500 dollars. I am also looking at the DeWalt DWS520SK track saw setup that I can get new for 399. The few reviews that I have read for the DWS520SK are very, very positive. I am in a basement shop and have to be sort of consertive for room but at the same time I do have room for a panel saw as long as it is on wheels.

The main question I have to anyone that has used or owns the DWS520SK setup is this, is 12 amps enough power? I will mostly be cutting 3/4 inch wood and maybe even some a little thicker maybe up to 2 inches thick. I am wondering if I should get an after market track with a 15 amp saw of choice, the dewalt DWS520SK , or just build a panel saw. I dont work with wood for a living but I do plan on building things as a hobby and I am also redoing a house that was built in the early part of the century and am building alot of built in items. I also plan on after the house is done to still build large items for friends, family and whoever likes my woodwork. With this in mind I am open to opinions, suggestions and thoughts.

Thanks for reading.

Karl, The latest inventions by eureka is the solution to cut panels easy, safe and very accurate.
The Ripsizer is only 34" long system with unlimited length capacity.
works like an edge guide but much-much better.

After you rip the plywood you can take the strips to the ez powerbench and finish all your cuts.
I use the ez-one powerbench but you can build a DIY ez bench for $400-$500.
The Bridge is like a clamping and tracking device. Like an inverted industrial Beam saw.
Add the super smart router and you have a Pro-Grade shop for less than $1000.00

Eurekas antichip system is much better than other track systems and you can use any saw and router.
I use the Makita 5008 MGA. With power to spare the system works with panels and hardwoods.

You can find eurekazone's inventions at youtube.com/eurekazone
Search fro the ez-one powerbench, the ripsizer and the SSRK.

good luck

[Rick Markham]

Karl, I went through this process myself, with the exception of considering the panel saw (don't have the room) I ended up with the Festool TS55, I looked at the Dewalt, and (at the time) the TS55 was on sale, and with a second extra long track figured into each of their prices the Festool ended up being cheaper. I'm super happy with mine, I built an easy "cut table" that supports an entire sheet of plywood, comes apart easily and stores easily. I've never had a problem with tearout with the Festool, but I think if our work is improperly supported than your going to get tearout no matter what system you use. I recently cut 8/4 Mahogany and 8/4 curly Maple. It had plenty of power and made beautiful cuts. I'd argue the repeatability of cuts issue, last weekend I cut up a sheet of 3/4" BB plywood into 8' 3" strips, and they all came out the same with no problems what so ever (probably took all of 8 mins)

The Eureka system, has always intrigued me, and I personally have never heard someone say a bad thing about them, I just didn't go that particular route, and really have had zero regrets.

[Van Huskey]

Eurekas antichip system is much better than other track systems and you can use any saw and router.

good luck

Not being contentious, I truly am interested in what makes it better than the Festool and Dewalt anti-chip solution.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I have a feeling that it is going to come down to whatever I get the best deal on, then go and get the other one...lol isnt that how it works...

LOL! That is soooo true isn't it? :D
Add to that also, that the one you do get is going to pop up for sale and/or second hand & never used a week after your purchase!..;)

FWIW - I mulled it all over and went w/The Festool TS55EQ. That was prior to the DeWalt coming out. I believe I'd go w/the DeWalt if I had to do it over.
Only because the DeWalt has a built in - always there and on - anti kick back feature & from the reports, it's able to get closer to flush cuts than the Festool.



FWIW- while the Festool (and I'm sure the DeWalt and Makita) saws are great track saws - they make lousy circular saws.
W/out the track, the TS55EQ isn't really useable for much.

I still have to drag out my cheap Ryobi or Skill from time to time.
I will say though, that w/my HF Multifunction tooll, those times have become fewer and fewer.

[Cory Hoehn]

I think there's another question to ask yourself before buying the saw: How important is dust collection? If it's not very important then I would just get a decent 7 1/4" circ saw from the Borg and make my own guides from 1/2" MDF. They're super easy to make and will save you about $300. If dust collection is important or you see yourself drinking more green kool-aid, then I'd go the Festool route.

Just be forewarned: The kool-aid is tasty and becomes a very expensive habit.

[Andrew Joiner]

I'd argue the repeatability of cuts issue, last weekend I cut up a sheet of 3/4" BB plywood into 8' 3" strips, and they all came out the same with no problems what so ever (probably took all of 8 mins)

.

I don't want to argue Rick, but?

1- The fastest repeatable cut to me is to slide the stock against a locked fence at 3" from the blade like on a table saw or panel saw.

2- Don't you have to measure ,mark, and square up with each cut?

[Chris Padilla]

Andrew,

Nope. You can set up stops (a fence if you will) for the guided saws and make repeatable cuts just like on a TS. Perhaps the initial setup takes some time (but then again, so does setting up ANY ww'ing tool, right?) but after that, rip away! :)

[David Prince]

I have not used the Makita or Festool, but to me their track seems unbalanced because it is off to the side. The Dewalt feels comfortable because it is centered and allows for cutting off of either side. The Makita and Festool can only cut off of one side.

For those with Makita or Festool, does it feel balanced? And, if you set it up to cut a 45 degree bevel, does it feel like it wants to tip over into the cut?

I have all of the available tracks for the Dewalt (46, 59, 102). The 46 is nice for quick cut-offs. The clamps and t-square also work well if you need them for certain procedures.

I seriously considered the Festool.

[Jon McElwain]

I have not used the Makita or Festool, but to me their track seems unbalanced because it is off to the side. The Dewalt feels comfortable because it is centered and allows for cutting off of either side. The Makita and Festool can only cut off of one side.

For those with Makita or Festool, does it feel balanced? And, if you set it up to cut a 45 degree bevel, does it feel like it wants to tip over into the cut?

I have all of the available tracks for the Dewalt (46, 59, 102). The 46 is nice for quick cut-offs. The clamps and t-square also work well if you need them for certain procedures.

I seriously considered the Festool.

Not at all. I have the Festool TS75. If you tilt the saw to a full 45 degrees, it will tip over just sitting there. However, the saw is a plunge cut saw. The pressure required for the plunge action is more than enough to hold the saw into place. I have not had any problems at all with off balance. Also, the cut line on the Festool is the same whether the cut is perpendicular to the material or at an angle. Is this the same for the Dewalt and Makita?

The only problem that I have had with this saw is that the dust collection hose and power cords do not pull over the guide at the end of the rail (I think they call it a deflector) as I had hoped. I do have to wrestle with the hose and power cord on long cuts. The boom arm helps on shorter cuts, but a full 8' piece of plywood ripped the long way usually requires a little dance to get the hose and cord to play nice.

Also, are the Makita and Dewalt tracks compatible with their routers? How is dust collection for these saws?

[David Prince]

Not at all. I have the Festool TS75. If you tilt the saw to a full 45 degrees, it will tip over just sitting there. However, the saw is a plunge cut saw. The pressure required for the plunge action is more than enough to hold the saw into place. I have not had any problems at all with off balance. Also, the cut line on the Festool is the same whether the cut is perpendicular to the material or at an angle. Is this the same for the Dewalt and Makita?

The only problem that I have had with this saw is that the dust collection hose and power cords do not pull over the guide at the end of the rail (I think they call it a deflector) as I had hoped. I do have to wrestle with the hose and power cord on long cuts. The boom arm helps on shorter cuts, but a full 8' piece of plywood ripped the long way usually requires a little dance to get the hose and cord to play nice.

Also, are the Makita and Dewalt tracks compatible with their routers? How is dust collection for these saws?

Delta makes a router attachment for its track. I do not have this and have not tried it. Dust collection is good with the Dewalt. I haven't found a great way to keep the hose and cord from dragging across my boards unless I throw it over my shoulder.

[Rich Engelhardt]

1- The fastest repeatable cut to me is to slide the stock against a locked fence at 3" from the blade like on a table saw or panel saw.
Agreed - kinda - for anything 4 to 5 foot long.
Any longer than that & it becomes difficult on the table saw.


How do the Festool track sections join? Do any of you see the same problems?
Festool uses two connectors instead of one.
I haven't had any issues with mine getting the two sections straight or keeping them straight.
Then again, I always use the Festool clamps on the tracks.