Price of adding 1 or 2 220 circuits

[Brian Kent]

I am setting up shop and don't want to unplug the dryer to plug in my 220 tools.

I have a main breaker panel on the outside of the garage wall where I want two circuits to come in.

In your experience, what kind of price will I be expecting?

Too many unknowns & risks to actually do this myself so I do want professional help.

Thanks in advance.

Brian

[John Fabre]

Ten years ago, I bought a PM 66 5hp that needed a 220 plug, so I got a qoute of $300.00 for a sub panel and one outlet. I did it myself and wired my whole shop for four 220 outlets and ten 110 outlets for $75.00. Hooked it up to the main breaker panel and had it checked by the city for $45.00.

Buy yourself a book, it's easy. The panel ran $25.00, outlets/breakers/wire ran $45.00, book was $12.00 and my time - priceless.

[Jarrett Vibert]

Maybe ten yrs ago, but I highly doubt you'll pull of buying what you'd need for that job for $75 these days. $300 for sub panel install is a good price. Everyone seems to forget that time=$$$.

OP: Hard to give you a useful number without seeing the area where the work is being done, and where you want the outlets mounted. To pop in a couple of breakers (assuming you have room for them), and run/strap 30ft of wire to recepticles shouldn't take more than an hour. Materials/labour cost will be location dependant, so I can't offer anything else useful.

Don't be ashamed to hire a professional to do you install. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be sure it's done right. Just be sure to request a copy of the permit the company pulls.

[Bob Riefer]

About 2 months ago, I got a quote for the same thing from two larger electrical companies in my area (couldn't get the smaller pros to even call me back for such a small job... hmmm, economy must be REALLY bad for them to not need work eh? ha ha). I was running about 35 feet, surface mount between open ceiling joists and open wall studs (i.e. no fishing wire, no conduit). I have a sub panel in the barn so they just needed to tap into that. Quotes were both in the $600 range. I ended up getting the materials for under $100 and getting a lesson from books and an experienced friend. Hope this helps

[Kent A Bathurst]

Mr Kent:

Moved to Atlanta, put the shop in the basement. Basement had doodly-squat for electric - couple lights, couple 110 outlets, and one 220 for dryer. Fortunately, previous owner's renovation included 200a main service. They had not used the basement for anyting but laundry and storage.

I got an electrician to put a 100a breaker in the main panel, and run from there to a new sub-panel in the shop/basement. Maybe 25'. Been 7 years, but I think that was maybe $500 out-the-door ["in-town Atlanta" and "inexpensive tradesmen" are never used in the same sentence].

Anyhoo.......That gave me a single main breaker on the primary panel that would shut down the entire basement. I had always been chicken to go into a panel, but not anymore. Wiring a breaker is easier than wrestling 10ga into a junction box. I get to run what I need, where I need it, and make changes as things move around. It really is very simple to do - especially with no ceiling, access to the joists, and 8'6" clear height. In fact, I need to split off part of my main 220 circuit, install a 2d breaker, and run a 2d line - added a 220 old-gold PM drill press to the supply/demand curve, and the extension cord is getting boring [no pun intended].

"Cry once" on the initial purchase, and then just roll on along from there.

Kent

[Jeff Bartley]

Brian,
I'd first look at your main box. Look for unoccupied breaker spaces. A 220 breaker takes up two slots so for two 220 breakers you'll need four open slots in the panel. If you have room for two more breakers your task is pretty easy: running wires and installing a couple breakers. But whatever you do if you doubt your work have a pro check it out; it's not worth the risk of a fire!
Last year I watched a neighbors shop burn to the ground! Fire was so hot you couldn't get closer than about 25 feet before your skin was too hot to stand. Within an hour there was absolutely nothing left of his shop!
Not trying to scare anyone but it's best to be safe with the electrons!
Jeff

[John Fabre]

My house is 12 years old, well two months ago my LOML noticed a fire coming out of a outlet. I cut power to it, let cool down for a day and took it apart. Doing so I noticed a loose wire on one of the terminals that spark had a burn mark. My house's wire and outlets was ran by electricians and inspected by the city. Since then I have replaced all my outlets in my house myself, found loose wires on two more outlets.

Do it yourself and you will know it's done right, use good parts too, not the cheaping ones.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Do it yourself and you will know it's done right, use good parts too, not the cheaping ones.

+1. This is a super easy job. 20 minutes perusing a DIY wiring book at your local library, and you'll easily be able to do this. Don't let the 220V aspect scare you - there is really nothing more difficult or dangerous about it.

[Darius Ferlas]

another +1 for DIY

[Rod Sheridan]

Brian, where I live I would expect to pay $75 per hour for an electrician, plus materials.

If I understand correctly, the runs would be short, and simple so I would suggest 4 hours work, $150 for materials plus permit.

Obtain a couple of quotes, it shouldn't be too bad..............Regards, Rod.

[David Castor]

I agree with Rod - get a quote or two then you can decide if you want to try to tackle it yourself. If the wiring must be run inside finished walls and the existing panel is congested, it is not always so simple to get a new cable pulled in. The concept is simple, but the electricians have a lot of tricks and special tools to make the job easier and safer. My GUESS would be about $500 by the time you're done, but you can probably get a free quote, then you'll know for sure. Just my $0.02.

[Bruce Wrenn]

If your 220 circuits are 20 amp, look at the possibility of doing "multiwire branch circuits." Using a double pole breaker, you can get two 110 circuits, and a 220 circuit.

[Jarrett Vibert]

+1. This is a super easy job. 20 minutes perusing a DIY wiring book at your local library, and you'll easily be able to do this. Don't let the 220V aspect scare you - there is really nothing more difficult or dangerous about it.

It's advice like this that makes my skin crawl. Current kills but voltage gives it an easier time.

Once more, don't let the this site's diy members convince you to do something you're uncomfortable with. There is a reason why a pro electrican requires a trade license and pro drywaller does not. There are real dangers to this type of work, and easily overlooked mistakes that can cause major issues.

I have obsolutely no doubt you can handle this task. Residential electrical work isn't brain surgery, but don't for a moment consider energizing the circuit until it's been inspected. Safety before diy pride...

[George Bregar]

It's advice like this that makes my skin crawl. Current kills but voltage gives it an easier time.

Once more, don't let the this site's diy members convince you to do something you're uncomfortable with. There is a reason why a pro electrican requires a trade license and pro drywaller does not. There are real dangers to this type of work, and easily overlooked mistakes that can cause major issues.

I have obsolutely no doubt you can handle this task. Residential electrical work isn't brain surgery, but don't for a moment consider energizing the circuit until it's been inspected. Safety before diy pride... The statement you bolded is fundamentally true so I'm not sure why your skin is crawling. Wiring 240V circuits isn't more difficult nor is it more dangerous. The only physical exposure is at the panel. That said I agree that if someone doesn't feel they can do something like electrical work then they should hire it out. I would disagree with your "must have inspected" warning. I wired my whole shop, including installing the meter socket for the utility, with no inspection (none was required). Wiring done by a competent diyer does not require any more attention...at least here in WI. In some jurisdictions inspection is required by both. But in no jurisdictions is an electrical license required for home wiring by the owner.

I 'm not sure about asking costs for "adding one or two 220 circuits"...too many unknowns to even start. This job could be a few hundred or a few thousand....

[Rod Sheridan]

If your 220 circuits are 20 amp, look at the possibility of doing "multiwire branch circuits." Using a double pole breaker, you can get two 110 circuits, and a 220 circuit.

Good point Bruce, that's what I did for my shop, one multiwire circuit for all the receptacles, and one dedicated circuit for the cyclone.......Extremely cost effective...Regards, Rod.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Current kills but voltage gives it an easier time.

True, but the reason we use two out-of-phase 120V lines to generate 240V is because it minimizes any additional danger that might be present when dealing with a higher voltage. You can touch either leg and only "see" 120V to ground. Thus, unless you happen to touch both hot legs at the same time (awfully unlikely, if you are being even remotely careful), the statement I made earlier ("there is nothing MORE difficult or dangerous about it") is true. I point this out because too many people seem to think that 120V wiring is something they would readily tackle, but 240V is "scary", when in fact, they are almost exactly the same.




but don't for a moment consider energizing the circuit until it's been inspected.
As George points out, many (most?) jurisdictions allow a homeowner to do electrical work within their own residence without permit or inspection. He's just adding a few outlets - what would there be to inspect? Make sure all the screws are tight, and you used the right gauge wire, and....? Anything else? I can't think of anything.

[George Bregar]

As George points out, many (most?) jurisdictions allow a homeowner to do electrical work within their own residence without permit or inspection. He's just adding a few outlets - what would there be to inspect? Make sure all the screws are tight, and you used the right gauge wire, and....? Anything else? I can't think of anything. Well, you need to understand wiring to the panel. My son put a neutral to a post that had a ground when he added a circuit for a Insinkerator. That is why I said "competent DIYer". Before I wired anything in my shop I spent a fair amount of time reading up on the subject...as stated earlier there are numerous sources.

[Rod Sheridan]

As George points out, many (most?) jurisdictions allow a homeowner to do electrical work within their own residence without permit or inspection. He's just adding a few outlets - what would there be to inspect? Make sure all the screws are tight, and you used the right gauge wire, and....? Anything else? I can't think of anything.

Well, wire type, suitable for purpose and installed properly, mechanical protection for wire if required, rating of devices, correct type of box connectors, correct placement of staples if required, correct grounding and bonding, correct box type and volume..........and on it goes.

Where I live, inspection is required for all work, regardless of who does it. As an Electrical Technologist, believe me, I've seen stuff done by home owners and tradesmen that you wouldn't believe, and that wouldn't pass inspection.

Regards, Rod.

[Brian Kent]

In a previous residence we found a 50 amp plug on a 30 amp circuit and a green wire used as the hot wire. An electrician did a lot of corrections for us. I'm not going to read up and try it on my own.

[Ole Anderson]

Today I installed a 20 amp 220 volt outlet for my soon to be delivered 2 hp dust collector. Cost me $54.00 for 50 feet of 12-2 wg, a two pole breaker, a handy box, cover and a NEMA 6-20 outlet. And a couple of hours fishing wires through joists and rearranging some breakers in my 200 amp house panel. If you do your own work, it is a good idea to pick up a copy and get familiar with the current NEC Pocket Guide to Residential Electrical Installations.

[Kirk Miller]

I just had a new home built with a connected shop. It wasn't a whole bunch more so I had 3 installed. I have one on the back deck, and 2 in the shop. For some reason I want to say it ran about $225.00. Lets see here.....Lathe plugs into one, don't have a hotub yet.....Could probably plug in a bandsaw to the one on the back deck, and have room for one more tool in the shop........:)

[Don Bullock]

Brian, before moving to Fallbrook a couple years ago I had a 30 amp 220 volt circuit and two 20 amp 110 volt circuits added to my garage in Simi Valley (in Southern California for those who don't know). He used some open spaces in the house panel at one end of the garage and installed the 220 plug and two 110 plugs a the other end. The other 110 circuit was used for adding several ceiling plugs. He also made me a pigtail for the 5 hp SawStop that I was planning to order at the time (that's why I needed the new 220 circuit. I believe, due to the high price of copper at the time, that my cost was around $900. Your job should be substantially less. You don't seem to need a long run of wire like I did. Yes, I know that a lot of people out there do their own electrical work, but I wanted to make sure there were no problems when we sold the house. Even my new shop in Fallbrook was wired by a local electrical contractor. I was too busy installing flooring and doing other projects, besides he knew what he was doing.

[John Neel]

another +1 for DIY

Deciding to do it yourself is a much easier decision to make if you have a main breaker that will turn off the power while you add either a circuit to the main box for a sub-panel or just add the circuits directly to the main box. I opted for the sub-panel because that gives me the flexibility to add additional circuits should I want to. The main breaker makes it less threatening to work in the box.

AND... Always check that the power is actually off before doing anything. I have been amazed at how many miswired circuits, bad connections, and failed devices I have found in the 6 houses I have owned.

[Ole Anderson]

a main breaker that will turn off the power while you add either a circuit to the main box

Oh man, where is the excitement in that, working in a panel that is dead?

[George Bregar]

Oh man, where is the excitement in that, working in a panel that is dead? If it's a main panel the lugs will still be energized.

[Mike Cutler]

Brian

While it is true that it "can be easy" if you have experience, there are more variables involved, it's not always as simple as dropping a breaker into an open slot, and yanking wire. I think you're better hiring it out.

Someday you will sell your home, and an experienced inspector would be able to read your panel like a book. Any code violations in the panel will stick out like a sore thumb. Pay now, or potentially pay later.

[Jarrett Vibert]

True, but the reason we use two out-of-phase 120V lines to generate 240V is because it minimizes any additional danger that might be present when dealing with a higher voltage. You can touch either leg and only "see" 120V to ground. Thus, unless you happen to touch both hot legs at the same time (awfully unlikely, if you are being even remotely careful), the statement I made earlier ("there is nothing MORE difficult or dangerous about it") is true. I point this out because too many people seem to think that 120V wiring is something they would readily tackle, but 240V is "scary", when in fact, they are almost exactly the same.

That's the reason why systems utilize 240v...? really...? It has nothing to do with power consumption, or the addition load that type of system can handle...? The only time 240v is safer, is when it's within a floating system. It's extremely easy to touch both phases when working within a panel. They're also in very close proximity within the recepticle box or cord end, if you happen to be doing something bone headed.

Yes the installation methodology is the same, however it is more dangerous, that's why I replied, and why some advice by a diy'er to a diy'er in these circumstances torques my gears.

As far as the lack of inspection in some areas.... Well I wasn't aware that the local government was so ignorant in regards to public safety in some parts of the States. However can anyone tell me of the top of your head, if the inspection is required in the OP's area? Rules/regs are diff everwhere you go. Pros tend to suggest the best course of action, because it's the safest route. If it ends up being excessive and unwarranted, at the worst you end up ahead of the game.

At this point I'm trying to figure out why the pro diy crowd is pushing that option. The OP has clearly stated that he does not feel comfortable with that approach. Safety first, egos second...

[John J Wang]

Up until a year ago I didn't feel that comfortable working with anything higher than 12V dc, and I think I will never feel comfortable working with line voltage, but at least now I know a little to do simple diy projects.

I tackled my first diy project with the help of an electrician friend, reading up on wire/conduit sizing, and the electrical supplier. There are some monetary saving, but mostly it's in the knowledge gained.

I always use a volt meter to double check and make sure the breakers are off before starting work. I also check for continuity to make sure I didn't cross connect any wires before turning on the breaker.

Regardless of whether you diy or contract it out, you should still know enough to diy the project yourself if needed. Like others have pointed out, even inspected works done by licensed contractors does not mean they're done properly. I still need to fix a series of wall sockets that was not connected back to the main panel and florescent lights that linger after they've been switched off. This is in a building constructed less than 7 years ago.

[Ian Parish]

I kinda hate to get back to the original question, but..<Wink>. I had the electric work for my new shop quoated. Each 30 amp 220 line was about $250.00 and each 50 amp 220 line was about $300.00. Lot's of things factor into the price but this will give you a starting point for time and materials. I have since bought the wire and WOW copper is expensive. 150 bucks for 100' 6-2 and 100 bucks for 100' 8-2 adds up fast.

Get some bids and go from there.

Ian

[Dan Wiese]

Price must vary by location and local economy. In 2009 I had one 30 amp 220 circuit and two 20 amp 110 circuits run from open slots in a basement sub-panel to my garage by a local electric company. I also wanted a light and a switch in my attic so they pigtailed off electric lines for my garage door opener. It took 2 guys about 1 and a half hours and they charged a little less than $400. The wire run was probably no more than 20 feet. I put it off for a long time and was completely surprised about the cost. My best sources have been to ask friends who they use locally and I have had good luck following that practice.

[Kevin W Johnson]

I guess i'm lucky. I grew up around electricity and electronics, computers, machinery, etc. My dad was a maintenance mechanic by trade, so most anything of this nature is easy for me. I re-wired mom and dads house several years ago, going from the original 60 amp service to a 200 amp. I'll never forget the inspectors face when i took the cover off the panel. He was amazed, and aside from being 100% correct, he also said it was one of the neatest panels he'd ever seen.

It's all in what you've been exposed too. If you don't feel comfortable, and don't have a friend that can lend a hand of experience, leave it alone. It's not worth the potential savings if you electrocute yourself, or burn your house down. It's too easy for those of us who are used to doing our own electrical work to tell someone how easy it is. It is easy, for those of us with experience, but for those without, its not a good idea to do it alone.

[Mike Cutler]

.

As far as the lack of inspection in some areas.... Well I wasn't aware that the local government was so ignorant in regards to public safety in some parts of the States. However can anyone tell me of the top of your head, if the inspection is required in the OP's area? Rules/regs are diff everwhere you go. Pros tend to suggest the best course of action, because it's the safest route. If it ends up being excessive and unwarranted, at the worst you end up ahead of the game...

The NEC applies to all dwellings in the US. There are no states, cities,counties, or farms that are exempt. ( I have never figured out why some people on farms think they're exempt.)
Not "all" electrical work requires an inspection. In this case though, sizing and adding breakers, running wire, and installing the outlet probably would require either an inspection and or the permit pulled by the liscense on file.

[Joseph Tarantino]

I guess i'm lucky. I grew up around electricity and electronics, computers, machinery, etc. My dad was a maintenance mechanic by trade, so most anything of this nature is easy for me. I re-wired mom and dads house several years ago, going from the original 60 amp service to a 200 amp. I'll never forget the inspectors face when i took the cover off the panel. He was amazed, and aside from being 100% correct, he also said it was one of the neatest panels he'd ever seen.

It's all in what you've been exposed too. If you don't feel comfortable, and don't have a friend that can lend a hand of experience, leave it alone. It's not worth the potential savings if you electrocute yourself, or burn your house down. It's too easy for those of us who are used to doing our own electrical work to tell someone how easy it is. It is easy, for those of us with experience, but for those without, its not a good idea to do it alone.

much as i am a DIY advocate and do my own wiring (everything up to and including 3phase), i'd echo this comment. residential wiring is simple, once you understand the basics of it. if you don't, or don't want to be bothered with it, get several estimates, making sure the specs given to each electrician are the same (apples to apples, etc.). toss out the high and the low bid and select from the remaining group based on provided references.

[Marc Burt]

I had a 100 amp sub panel installed in my basement and one 30 amp circuit run last month and it cost me about $170 dollars. Considering the materials cost about $125 I think it was a more than fair price. Of course the price level between Alabama and California is too much to make any comparison by the OP worthwhile maybe it will help future users searches!

Now as an aside only since op is clearly not interested in doing it himself. I did run the remainder of the circuits myself. I'd done plenty of 'small' electrical work before ( changing light fixtures, adding outlets to existing circuits etc) had alway been afraid of the panel. Aftr reading several books and watching the sub being wired I can say that it as soooo much less intimidating than I had thought. I ran the remainder of mine in conduit fwiw so much easier IMO than dealing with romex.

As a second aside as a Canadian myself, I grew up in Barrie and got my degree from the University of Waterloo, I find the gentleman from Ontario's sanctimonious attitude more than a little embarassing.

[Tim Sproul]

I priced it out ~8 years ago in San Leandro California. $125/hour and minimum 4 hours. Add materials. Add permit. For a couple short runs - Figure $50-100 for wire (copper has become quite the hot commodity), $50-150 for conduit (if you want the wires run behind sheetrock, total labor will be more because it takes a lot longer to pull wire and typically the electrician would bring a helper although for such a small job they might just ask you to help pull wire and things like blocking between studs will make it even more expensive....adding another labor cost), $30-$60 for breakers, $30-60 for receptacles.

I figure labor rates for Escondido should be in the same ballpark as San Francisco area. If you are going to pay someone else to do it, my thinking would be to get a reputable, licensed electrician and be willing to pay their rate. This is also a one-time expense so although it may seem like a lot, amortize it over 5, 10, 20 years and it is pretty cheap.

[Adam Alloway]

Depends on if you are going to do it yourself or have someone do it for you. The cost all depends on how they need to run it and size of ciruit you need. a new dedicated 110 is going to run you 125-175 so if you can get a 220 put it for 200-300 might be even more. Just call around and get quotes.

[Rob Mathis]

the 2 things I know about electricity.
1) if you dont know what you are doing get some books and read up on what you want to do.
2) If you dont feel like you can do this and be comfortable get a pro.

With that said I am no pro but I read up and ran the 230v for my tablesaw to run on. 2 hot and 1 natural. A double pull breaker some wire and conduit and an outlet. Life is good.

In California I would get a licensed electrician but that is me.

[Will Rowland]

The NEC applies to all dwellings in the US. There are no states, cities,counties, or farms that are exempt.

The NEC is published by the National Fire Protection Association, which is NOT a federally funded entity. It is up to a state or municipality to adopt the NEC, but they do not have an obligation to adopt it. Some municipalities, like Houston, adopt the NEC but then issue their own set of exceptions or modifications to the NEC.

Regardless, even if a municipality does not adopt the NEC, or require inspections in accordance with it, most civil courts recognize the NEC as the basis for establishing "safe" electrical practices in liability lawsuits.

What is unfortunate is that in some places - like Houston - the unions have forced the city into only allowing licensed electricians to pull electrical permits. So...people do their own electrical work anyway, but can't get inspected.

IMHO, with a bit of self-study, the average homeowner with basic DIY skills can do 80% of electrical work just as good as an electrician. I used to be scared to do my own electrical work, but am now quite proud of how well I can do it.

[Kevin W Johnson]

In California I would get a licensed electrician but that is me.

If i lived in California, i'd just move out, but that is me....lol

Im sure some people love it, but it's too nanny state for me, least thats the impression I and many others get.

[John Eaton]

It's my opinion that if you have experience wiring a regular 120 circuit that wiring a 240 is well within the range of a DIY project. Just make sure you read the various install tutorials and understand them. Much of the recent increase in costs associated with wiring have to do with the increase in costs of the copper wiring itself - 10 years ago I would spend $37 for a 250' spool of 12/2 (for a 20 A circuit) - that same spool is now selling for more than double at $77.60. Whenever I see partial rolls at yard sales I pick them up (people remember what they paid so I've managed to pick up 2 rolls of about 200' each at $5 each). It takes the same wire to run a 120 as it does a 220 of the same amperage rating - there's slightly more costs to the breaker and receptacle but otherwise there's not much additional actual work involved - factor that in if you shop around with an electrician. Just my opinion.

-- John

[Brian Kent]

One thing that should save some bucks is that the breaker box on the outside of the garage is within 5 feet of where I need the outlets inside the garage. I already have long cords on my 220 tools.

[John Fabre]

There's got to be a creeker close by that would help you who's a pro, make sure whoever does it pulls a permit. I think thats why I installed my own, all three electricians said I didn't need a permit. My main breaker box is located on the outside of the garage too, about 3 feet away. I can't believe the cost of copper now, I should have bought rolls and rolls of the stuff.

Brian, maybe you can drill the holes and run the wires yourself, this would save you a ton of money. This way you could put in more future outlets and place them where you want them. Then have a electrician do all the connections and get it all inspected.

[Jarrett Vibert]

As a second aside as a Canadian myself, I grew up in Barrie and got my degree from the University of Waterloo, I find the gentleman from Ontario's sanctimonious attitude more than a little embarassing.

If it's sanctimonious to be more concerned about one's safety rather than the pride gained by diying a project. I'll gladly accept that comment as a compliment. I still live in Barrie, so PM me if you're ever visiting. I'll buy you a beer, and explain why sometimes faceless generalized advice from online forums can cause more harm than good.

Now as an aside :p, the labour cost of your pony panel is simply jaw dropping. <$50 for that amount of work is unheard of in these parts. In fact, if I heard of someone quoting that little, I'd be concerned of the quality of work they may produce.

[Jarrett Vibert]

What is unfortunate is that in some places - like Houston - the unions have forced the city into only allowing licensed electricians to pull electrical permits. So...people do their own electrical work anyway, but can't get inspected.

See now that's funny... Here (Ontario), even with my license, I can't pull a permit to perform work for another. In fact, I can't legally do work for someone if they pulled the permit themselves. There's a second "masters" license needed for electrical contractors in a given area, (which automatically are if you're accepting work as a proprietor). It's another advanced code exam, and building code testing, etc etc... However any home owner can pull a permit and do their own work. Of course if a permit is pulled an inspection will be done, so that isn't all bad.

If I understand it correctly. The policy was brought in to stop price cutting from large shops coming into small areas, and to help eliminate the "underground economy" tradespeople apparently enjoy.

[Dan Friedrichs]

That's the reason why systems utilize 240v...? really...? It has nothing to do with power consumption, or the addition load that type of system can handle...?

You misread my earlier comment. My argument is that two 120V lines, 180* out of phase, is inherently safer than a single 240V line referenced to ground.


While I agree with your general sentiment that safety is a priority, I genuinely believe many DIY'ers are intelligent enough to properly educate themselves and perform work that is on par with that done by professionals. Having borne witness to some work done by "professionals", I think given the choice between having a generic professional electrician install an outlet, and having a well-informed, intelligent, cognizant DIY'er (who is doing work on his own house, and thus, has a vested interest in doing the work properly), I'd prefer the DIY'er.

I also prefer the DIY'er because I think many pros have unrealistic expectations as to how well they should be compensated. If I were paying time and materials at $30/hr, I may be OK with hiring a (good) pro. But some of the quotes listed here would reflect labor rates approaching $100/hr.

[Kevin W Johnson]

To the OP, you could also try and find and electrician willing to compensate you with a discount for YOUR manual labor. I did this when our swimming pool was put in, i didnt think my work schedule was going to allow me to do the work, so we were having it done, then it turned out i had the time off. I chipped in and got a nice discount, plus he was here less time too, more money saved.

[Jarrett Vibert]

While I agree with your general sentiment that safety is a priority, I genuinely believe many DIY'ers are intelligent enough to properly educate themselves and perform work that is on par with that done by professionals. Having borne witness to some work done by "professionals", I think given the choice between having a generic professional electrician install an outlet, and having a well-informed, intelligent, cognizant DIY'er (who is doing work on his own house, and thus, has a vested interest in doing the work properly), I'd prefer the DIY'er.

I also prefer the DIY'er because I think many pros have unrealistic expectations as to how well they should be compensated. If I were paying time and materials at $30/hr, I may be OK with hiring a (good) pro. But some of the quotes listed here would reflect labor rates approaching $100/hr.

I completely agree with the above.... I think I've stated this already, but electrical, especially residential, isn't brain surgery and thinking back through my experience with other tradesman in the field, I'd almost say that your almost certainly better off doing it yourself. If you took your time and safely followed the relative code for your area of course.

Expected labour rates are relative at best though, and it shouldn't just be assumed that the pro is looking to retire on your particular job. My friend from Barrie's sub panel job is a perfect example of how cheap it can be, (but I'd still question that low rate).

[Chris True]

I also prefer the DIY'er because I think many pros have unrealistic expectations as to how well they should be compensated. If I were paying time and materials at $30/hr, I may be OK with hiring a (good) pro. But some of the quotes listed here would reflect labor rates approaching $100/hr.

These threads are hillarious. A GOOD pro for $30 / hour? Labor rates vary widely by area of course but the dollar amount per hour on the job required to actually run a business is a heck of a lot higher than what the worker actually makes. By the time you add in FICA and other taxes, workers comp, travel time to an from, time to stock the truck, fuel & maintenance & acquisition price & insurance for the work vehicle @ maybe 60 or 70 cents a mile etc. etc. not to mention a profit for the owner, some allocation for general office expenses to keep track of the money, you are at multiples of the workers pay.

[Dan Friedrichs]

A GOOD pro for $30 / hour?

I understand, Chris - I'm not saying that it's possible. I'm just saying that I feel a little aggrieved to be paying a higher hourly rate to a tradesman than I make doing my job. That's why I'd prefer to do it myself.

[Tom Hammond]

Though having never been licensed, I prefer to do all electrical myself as well. I've done wiring since I was a kid, so wiring up 240, putting in 3-ways, running circuits, installing new service panels and meter bases, verifying all grounds are correct, GFCI, troubleshooting shorts... it's all second nature now. HOWEVER... there's two things amateurs should NEVER do if they have any trepidation or are totally inexperienced at them: electrical and roof. Why put yourself in a position of real danger when a few hundred dollars give you permanent piece of mind? What I would suggest is striking a deal with the installer to allow you to participate in the work while he's there. There's no reason you can't string the wire and make the connections in switches and recepticles, leaving the load connections to him. You could even leave your connections exposed for his inspection.

Plus... you have to be aware of code requirements in your area. For example, in at least one county here in Ohio it is a code violation to even simply add a circuit to existing service, even in your own house, if you don't pull a permit first. And, to complicate things, you cannot pull a permit in that county unless you are either a licensed electrician or pass the county test of the national code requirements. The fines START at $250. When I bought an investment property and rewired the entire house I took the test and passed but there's no way most could, especially since passing grade is 18/21... and those 21 questions are all pretty hard.

My feeling is that if you:

1... look at a GFCI recepticle and don't know IMMEDIATELY how to wire it or what the parameters are for its proper use, or
2... cannot explain why 240 can work when you put load on it connecting only the hots to the load, or how to identify a 240 requirement and circuit, or
2A. cannot explain why 240 can KILL you even if you touch only the hots and not the neutral, or
3... are not sure how to properly ground your breaker box or 'jump' your water heater, or
4... don't know the relationship formula for amps, volts and watts, or
5... cannot match by memory wire size to loads such as a stove, dryer, microwave, furnace, water heater, A/C, etc. or
6... cannot identify an installed 20A recepticle on sight, or
7... cannot explain a 3-way or 4-way circuit, or
8... have no idea what "knob and tube" or "De-Ox" are, or
9... don't know why aluminum wire is commonly used when wiring stoves, but you don't see it anyplace else any more, or
10. any number of other things that can lead to a PRACTICAL problem for the DIY installer, then

you should be looking for help. By the way... on 2A, that actually happened to a friend of my father's a number of years ago. So much for "but I'm not grounded."

Most times, you'd be and do just fine. But it only takes about a tenth of a second for something irreversibly bad to happen. This is one area where macho bravery can be a very... bad... thing. And, as my grandfather always said... work BACK TO the box, ALWAYS.

[Garth Keel]

You may want to consider that your insurance may not pay if the work is done w/out permits and inspections. While you may DIY it and do a good job, your insurance company makes a profit when it can "reasonably" disallow a claim.

[Steven Hardy]

I agree with your choosing not to do it yourself. Its true that its not a difficult task to accomplish. What is difficult,in the event that there is a fire,is getting your insurance company
to step forth and cover the damage IF a licenced electrician did not at least sign off on it.

[Jarrett Vibert]

I understand, Chris - I'm not saying that it's possible. I'm just saying that I feel a little aggrieved to be paying a higher hourly rate to a tradesman than I make doing my job. That's why I'd prefer to do it myself.

Not that I want to argue or come off as "sanctimonious" a second time, but it did take me five years of hell to just qualify to write my CofQ exam... That's even more time than it takes to get a degree from the University of Waterloo ;). I think my $30/hr in pocket is well justified. The wage has nothing to do with the amount of "work" I do, but the knowledge/experience I possess. Back in my sub-contractor days, my employers billed me at $55hr plus...

[Bruce Seidner]

My experience with these sorts of either/or discussions is that there are substantive benefits and dangers to attempting a project like this.

Like some of the others I have had good experience working with a professional electrician and I saved a bundle by drawing it out and planning it the way I needed it and being informed from the DIY books on the subject.

The operation went well because I did most of the installation of wire, panels and outlets but left it to the real surgeon to make the actual connections. It was win/win. I did most all of the labor and dirty work, he made sure it was to code and then hooked it up. I don't think I would have made any lethal errors or created the predicate to violate my home insurance, but it made it a zero anxiety project where I learned a lot and saved a lot of money.