I was browsing through suspended vessels images yesterday.... disturbing plageurism?

[Jim Underwood]

I was browsing through images of suspended vessels yesterday, and I ran into something rather disturbing. I'm not sure whether I first googled for Alan Carter's website, or ran into images of his stuff and looked up his website later... but I found another website that's an almost exact duplicate of his, but the same sculptures are claimed to be made by another person.

Here's a link to Alan Carter's website. (http://www.alancarterstudio.com/TURNED%20VESSELS%20AND%20SCULPTURES.htm)

And here's what I'm assuming to be the duplicate. (http://www.shawstud.com/TURNED.htm)

Does this look like plageurism to you?

[Scott Lux]

Boy that is cheesy. I don't know anything about either site, so I can't tell so is the original. But that is definitely plagiarism. You should report each site to the other.

[Jim Underwood]

I should point out that Alan Carter's work was featured in Dec 2010 issue of the AAW Journal.

[John Keeton]

Interestingly, the email link on the "other" site is listed as Dwight Davis, but a reverse phone lookup shows the number goes to Janey L Mcmichael 1371 Turner Rd Concord, GA 30206-2612 (770) 884-5706, age 65. I would say the thing to do is contact Alan through WoW or AAW, and let him know - quickly!

[Jack Mincey]

I just sent Alan an E-mail. I don't know either turner, but it would seem one of them is less than what I've grown to expect from the turner's I've met. It looks like the guy is even taken credit for his work.
Jack

[John Coloccia]

Just something to note:

I know what this looks like, but remember that none of us know any of the story behind this. It certainly looks like a scam, no doubt, but it could also be a guy who's just fooling around with his web site and is just "borrowing" some design elements with the intent to change it all around later into something that's unique to him. I've done that before where I've stolen design elements from a site just to play with them and see how they work, but then I don't actually use any of it...it's just a learning exercise. People don't realize that once a site is live, every can and will find it thanks to search engines. If you want to play, you need to do it locally on your own computer.

I'm not saying this is what's going on and it looks pretty awful on the surface, but be let's just be careful until we know the whole story. I'm half tempted to call him up and try to order a piece but why spoil Alan's fun? LOL.

[Dan Hintz]

I can think of another possibility, although the site is definitely a copy...

Fake Guy receives a request for pricing on object 'X'. Fake Guy contacts Alan and asks for a price. Alan offers price $Y to Fake Guy, so Fake Guy offers object 'X' to the potential client for $Y + 10%. Legality of such an arrangement is dubious, at best, but I can't think of a specific law that is actually being broken with such an arrangement (the sale, not the website). Fake Guy makes a clean 10% for no real work... ingenious, if you ask me.

[David DeCristoforo]

Hard to know what's going on there but the "duplicates" are not duplicates. The images and the accompanying copy are taken directly from Alan's site.

[charlie knighton]

i would think that the turnings are so one of a kind that whoever posted the images did them is more of a computer person than woodturner imho

[Jack Mincey]

Alan has returned my E-mail thanking me for bringing this to his attention. He was not aware of it and is trying to figure out what is going on. Hope it all works out.
Jack

[Steve Vaughan]

It appears the duplicate site might be shut down? It's no longer loading for me.

Nope...it finally loaded up...still there...was hoping he'd gotten it shut down.

[Sean Troy]

It just looks like a bad attempt at a mirror site to fool the search engines. Get caught doing that and you get both sites blacklisted.

[Michael Weber]

Turners Invy? Man, I wish I had a tenth of that creativity.

[David Weaver]

Funny that the second guy's disclaimer at the bottom toots hard about who owns the designs:



ALL DESIGNS COPYRGHT SHAW STUDIO AND MAY NOT BE REPRODUCED WITHOUT THE EXPRESS WRITTEN CONSENT OF THE ARTIST


Anyone who is the mildest cynic would wonder how you would have such accomplished work while you were still "progressing with your new adventure and seeing limitless possibilities", and how you would have such a large inventory of finished pieces.

Too bad the guy will probably not get the trouble he deserves for that.

[John Shuk]

Weird for sure.
If you click home on the Shaw studio site there is a legalese blurb about the designs belonging to Shaw Studios and that they are copyrighted.


Edit.... you are quick David.

[David Weaver]

The original owner of the content may have already gotten to the guy, but you could have a little fun by calling him and asking him the name and number of the actual artist so you could go and ask consent.

:)

[Alan L Carter]

First, I want to thank you for alerting me about this fake site and also to say I'm looking forward to participating in these forums and interacting with all of you.

I called the number on the site and spoke with a Justin Davis. He was aware of the site but said neither he nor his father, Dwight, whose email address is listed, had anything to do with it. Accordng to him, it apparently is a scam from Nigeria. They've had to deal with orders for pieces using stolen credit cards.

I don't know exactly how that would work, but right now I'm taking him at his word. I'm going to contact Google, Yahoo, Paypal, and whoever else I can think of to get this off the internet but I don't know how hard it will be.

I'll post when I find something out. If anybody has any suggestions, I'll gladly listen.

Thnks again so much for letting me know about this.

The REAL Alan Carter Studio

[Dan Hintz]

Alan,

Justin's comments about it being a Nigerian scam make zero sense. Unless there is an e-cart attached to his site, the purchaser must contact them via the phone number listed. It's not like it goes to a Nigerian phone line, it goes to Justin's. Sounds like they're just trying to weasel out of a tough spot.

Contact the hosting site and inform them the material on the page is copyrighted, link to your page, and inform them you will prosecute to the fullest extent of the law. The letter is their notice, and if they don't take action the hosting site can be held liable. Trust me, the hosters want NOTHING to do with a lawsuit about such matters. It will get the site ripped off of the web.

[Bill Edwards(2)]

The bogus site is on Yahoo, good luck getting them to give a care.

[Brian Tymchak]

Wow. Have to admit I've never seen such a blatant rip off of a web site.

Hats off to Jim and Jack to identify the issue and contact the original artist and protect his work.

Brian

[Rick Huelsbeck]

Alan Welcome to the Creek. Sorry that it is this sad subject that has brought you here, but I for one am really happy to have you aboard. I'm really looking forward to learning all I can from you in the Turners forum.

[Ron Conlon]

If there was a shred of doubt as to who had the original website, a quick scan of the HTML source for both sites includes "Alan" and "Carter" as keywords in the meta section.

[Rick Markham]

Alan, I'm glad your here too, first I would like to say that I find your work very inspiring, and hopefully one day I can be as creative as you. It's a shame you had to show up because someone is ripping off your work. I've followed this thread since it was created. I honestly find it disgusting. They are nothing more than forgers and art thieves. I agree with Dan, the Nigerian scam, sounds like bunk to me, as there is no paypal or online order ability. I think a lawyer's cease and desist letter are in order, promptly followed by a lawsuit. I'd inform the host site as well, including a cease and desist letter.

I would love to find out whose "flat work" is ripped off as well. I hope that person becomes aware that their craftsmanship is being exploited as well.

I look forward to learning anything you have to offer us Alan! I hope this is quickly and painlessly resolved for you, and I hope the gentleman, or gentlemen, (using that term VERY loosely) get what they deserve!
---Rick

[Jaze Derr]

Yeah, that's just...weird.

[Jon Lanier]

I know what this is all about. This was just about getting Alan Carter over here on the Sawmill. Clever, very clever. ;)

[Mike Cruz]

Rick, I was looking for you to "stir" things up with this... Instead, you gave a mature and meaningful response. Heeeeeyyyyy, is this really Rick, or did someone steal his name and post a fake response? :D

Okay, that was so wrong. Sorry, Rick.

And sorry to you, too, Alan, for having to deal with schmucks that have to steal. I agree...prosecute.

[Alan L Carter]

Thanks for all the positive comments. I agree that there's no way this could be a Nigerian scam. How could it work?
Here's what I've done so far:
filed complaint with FBI
informed Paypal of problem
contacted Yahoo about it
I don't expect to get much of a response from any of them, but who knows. I'll continue to pursue it, contact a lawyer if need be.
On the upside, I did get a big spike in the traffic to my site yesterday.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Alan,

I visited your site for the first time. You are very talented and with a greater imagination than I.

You might talk to the local states attorney about something like this. They might give you some direction. I fail to see how this is a Nigerian scan. I suspect these persons have been or have been trying to take advantage of people using a copy of your website. Good luck. Welcome to the Creek!

[Rick Markham]

Hey I resemble that remark! :D

This is one pot that doesn't need any stirring, it "stinks" and I don't want any of that on me ;)

[Rick Markham]

Alan, hopefully the FBI will promptly respond to you, I would assume that if they are taking peoples money that it would constitute some sort of interstate wire fraud, if it is an international scam (doesn't seem likely) the FBI and the department of Treasury (secret service) will be investigating. Keep us informed, I hope it gets resolved quickly and justly!

[Jim Becker]

About the only thing I can add to this (in addition to my own warm welcome to Alan) is that I really cannot imagine how someone would think that someone wouldn't notice that they completely copped a well-know artist's material for this kind of thing. Sheesh. Major brass ones, that's for sure!

[David Cramer]

Wow!!! Time for me to dig a hole and jump in. Too bloody talented there Alan. I turned a pen last month and now I feel unworthy!!!!

GREAT Designs and GREAT work. That is some impressive work for sure. Continued success and good luck going after the thief.

David "going back under his rock" Cramer

[Scott Shepherd]

Here's what I have found-

Take this information (you already knew it)

Domain Name: SHAWSTUD.COM
Registrar: MELBOURNE IT, LTD. D/B/A INTERNET NAMES WORLDWIDE
Whois Server: whois.melbourneit.com
Referral URL: http://www.melbourneit.com
Name Server: YNS1.YAHOO.COM
Name Server: YNS2.YAHOO.COM
Status: clientTransferProhibited
Updated Date: 01-jul-2010
Creation Date: 01-jul-2010
Expiration Date: 01-jul-2011

Go here :

http://labnol.blogspot.com/2007/09/dmca-notice-of-copyright-infringement.html

Fill out a DMCA Notice of Copyright Infringement (and read how to do it)

Then....

Contact Yahoo at this location :

http://info.yahoo.com/copyright/us/details.html?pir=O3S8egVibUn66RPN7O_FZG5VccOwXOAU1 ik7KJ7wVJwV9ul8agyDHcquvs9esR8FDou8Yn9.SDEwAsghZF8-

Do that and his site will disappear quite quickly. They take that stuff quite serious.

Hope that helps!

[Brian Tymchak]

Here's what I have found-

Take this information (you already knew it)
.
.



Great stuff Scott. Thanks for posting the info.

Brian

[Duff Bement]

Allen, I just visited your site and I am truly impressed. Your vision and design is truly AMAZING.
As for this web page stuff, it makes me sad to see crap like this happen and even more sad to think that this person never receive a fitting punishment.
Also welcome to Creek.

[Alan L Carter]

The offending site is off the internet! I emailed the copyright dept. at Yahoo with all the info and they took it down.

My hearfelt thanks to Jim and Jack for telling me about it in the first place and to everyone else who offered their suggestions and support.

I'm proud to be part of such a great group of people.

[Scott Shepherd]

Glad you got it resolved Alan. That's fantastic and should be a great example of how you don't have to sit back and let this happen to you just because it's "on the internet".

I'd constantly search the internet for this coming back (using quotes around a key sentence from your site in google) to make sure that someone doesn't just go over to another web host and put it back up. If it were making them any money, you better believe this morning they are looking for a new place to host it other than yahoo.

[Jim Underwood]

Good. Glad to hear it Alan. I hate to see this happen to anyone.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Alan - these are sad circumstances under which to 'Welcome you to the Creek' but I am happy just the same to have you here! Hope it is smooth sailing from this point forward!

[Belinda Barfield]

It is such a shame that there are such dishonest folks in this world. Welcome Alan, and WOW - love your work!