Beginning thoughts on setting up new laser engraving business.

[Fred Hayen]

So question is where to start. I’ve read a lot here and think I understand the basics. Looking at a new Epilog Mini 18 at 40 watts for around $11,500.00 not including a good air filtration system which I’ll need. Would prefer to mount all in a concession trailer as we have plans to work at various shows and other sites. My fiancée is very familiar with vending at various outdoor functions and flea markets. I’m more familiar with business to business wholesale marketing and services which I’m hearing here is probably where the profits are really at. So we have developed a long list of things or services we can do with our laser and now need to shorten it to the 5-10 we truly wish to focus on first based on both interest and potential.

The trailer concept has pluses and minuses I’m thinking. We definitely want to be mobile. I’m thinking we will need a generator that is pretty quiet and some other items as well. I’m worried that the laser will have to be both well secured and mounted on air cushions to prevent vibration damage. Also in the best of all worlds we would have a heated shed/garage to keep trailer so our business would always be both operational even in our -40 weather in this area. I’m not excited about bring the laser in the house due to smell and fire hazard. This might be an insurance issue as well.

As I’m retiring in a year or two at most this will become sort of a full/part time job to hopefully supplement our social security as well as keep is away from the couch and TV. I’m not going to be giving anything away. I’ve been in the business world way too long to bust my behind for pennies. I do feel were both creative enough in different ways to find out nitch given some trial and error.

What I’m looking for here is realistic opinions from those of you who have been at the starting gate like us. What am I missing in my thinking? What other serviced beyond laser engraving might I might consider as a good business add-on? (Such as embroidery of patches hats, jackets, vests, etc.) as an example. In other words if you were me (be glad you aren’t LOL) what would you be doing with your first $25K of investment dollars to hopefully get a decent payback eventually? What am I missing here?

Thank you all in advance. I realize much of what I’m writing here has been covered here before but it’s scattered about in bits and pieces with a variety of sub issues that don’t quite fit my situation so at the risk of being redundant I’m taking this opportunity to file my first post, introduce myself, and put my thoughts at the mercy of the forum.

Fred & Karie

[Mike Null]

Fred

Welcome to SMC. I would suggest you do a search of the forum for previous posts on this subject, the subject of flea markets, fairs, craft fairs, etc.

My own opinion is that I would discourage such a venture unless this is going to be more of a hobby than a business. First, people have a relatively bad history of impulse buying related to lasered items. If you've shopped these markets and don't see any lasers there's a reason. The laser has been around a long time. It's still expensive and tedious to haul around, not to mention risky. If I were a banker I wouldn't loan a dime for such a venture.

I realize that's a harsh assessment but after 13 years in the business I believe it's reality.

[Fred Hayen]

Fred

Welcome to SMC. I would suggest you do a search of the forum for previous posts on this subject, the subject of flea markets, fairs, craft fairs, etc.

My own opinion is that I would discourage such a venture unless this is going to be more of a hobby than a business. First, people have a relatively bad history of impulse buying related to lasered items. If you've shopped these markets and don't see any lasers there's a reason. The laser has been around a long time. It's still expensive and tedious to haul around, not to mention risky. If I were a banker I wouldn't loan a dime for such a venture.

I realize that's a harsh assessment but after 13 years in the business I believe it's reality.


Mike:

I'm not disagreeing with you. Given my background I'd probably not go with that marketing concept either. That's why I'm thinking a mix of both craft shows and commercial work makes some sense. I do think tho that failure in direct sales by others does not mean one cannot succeed. If I were to venture a guess I'd say that many/most of us fail in business because we try to hard to convince the customers that they should liKe what we like. Instead we should be more attentive to what the customer is willing to pay for and then offer them what they want. Most of us that are interested in engraving are maybe way to creative and maybe not as attentive to who the buyer really is and what they really want. But I do really appreciate your opinions here and do in some ways share your views. Like I said if it was just me I'd focus first on commercial wholesale work at least at the beginning.

THANK YOU;

[Scott Shepherd]

If I were dead set on lugging something around, I'd skip the $25,000 and go with about $3,000 and do a really nice dye sublimation set up. You can dye sub personalized things in minutes, especially if you have your products set up. However, engraving a photo at a craft show could take 30-45 minutes. It wouldn't take many of them to make it unfeasible for you to deliver items "while you wait". If you're doing a dog tag, that's a different story. If you are doing dog tags, you can rock out some dog tags with dye sub and not have that $11,500 laser sitting there.

If you put me in a trailer next to you, and we did all the same events, I'd bet my paycheck that I'd outsell you day after day and my profit margins would be better as well.

Just my opinion!

[Larry Bratton]

I agree with Mike. I'm real sure about one thing, I certainly would not want to haul my machine around on a trailer. They are very easy to get the alignment off and just that is in itself is enough to discourage it. (Until you do alignment on one you don't have a grasp of that). I purchased my laser as a compliment to a CNC router and an established sign business. I sold the CNC, quit the sign business, moved to another state. I kept the laser with the thought in mind of doing what your talking about, supplementing social security etc. I have yet, after a year of trying, to find a niche in this market, and in this economy that will support that concept. I am fortunate that I paid cash for my machine and actually paid for it in the couple of years prior to leaving the other business, so I am not against the wall to make the payments. I can say, that I doubt that I would invest in just a stand alone laser without some kind of established customer base. If I wanted something to play around with and maybe try the fairs and such, I might consider one of the Chinese made machines at a price point that I could live with if it didn't work. $12,000 bucks is a lot of cash to lay out there for a speculative venture, you might want to consider investing in gold or the stock market instead! Good luck! and welcome to the forum!

[AL Ursich]

A CarveWright Friend on the West Coast has a Trailer and has done the Hand Router Sign Fair Circuit for YEARS.... He got a CW and mounted it in his trailer and had a lot of machine problems due to vibration.... Some here know the History of the CW and the vibration issues due to the bit holders and even my machines had problems in my shop.

He said that the Road Bumps really beat the machine up..... He solved it by removing the machine from the trailer and placing it in a foam padded box in the truck for on the road time....

So Trailer and Laser.... Like said above.... Asking for trouble....

Then there is POWER... Clean Power.... My buddy wrote horror stories about power problems from just poor power to being required to share 30 amp outlets, being promised the world when paying to FEES and finding POOR power and a "I don't really care" attitude once they have your money...

Then there is a Gas, Diesel or LP Gas Generator.... Sucking up the proffit...

For the money.... A Web Page would be more productive then on the ROAD....

My buddy did the Wood Sign and a Soda Cart this year and between the two, it was a poor year....

I give a Vote for Sublimation too.....

And not wanting to work for pennies..... There is not big money in tourist and Fair stuff....


AL

[Joe Pelonio]

Unless your area is far different from ours, the craft shows, farmer's markets and flea markets are
not going to result in enough sales to pay for the gas to tow the trailer there. I have never tried it myself but have sent laser items with other people that were vending, they asked for them mostly to draw interest to their stuff. It turns out that people like to spend $5 or less for such things, and even then they sell slowly. Lots of looking but that's about it. My wife and I go to such events all the time for fun, and I always watch when i see laser items, and rarely see sales happening. Maybe if you come up with something unique they can't resist. After doing laser work for 6 years now, I find the money to be in wholesale production work.

We may sound discouraging but are only trying to be helpful, laser sales people will tell you that what you are hoping to do will make you rich but it just isn't true very often.

[Martin Boekers]

what would you be doing with your first $25K of investment dollars to hopefully get a decent payback eventually? Fred & Karie

Well you probably stand a better shot at payback by going to Vegas and put it on Red!:D.

Seriously the best recommendation I can give you is to actually head to Las Vegas,
but to the ARA show. The best show going, you will probably see more than you could
ever imagine there. I believe it's in February.

For someone in your position I definitley would go.

As others said dye sub would probably be the way to start out, about $3500 to get
started with a nice press, (mug and flat) printer and some product. if you go with Dye
Sub make the printer is a Ricoh you won't be sorry there. Stay away from Epson at all
costs!

There are quite a few things to do with dye sub. Brush up on your Photoshop and set up
a small portrait area, may work if pricing is right.

As you said some fail & others succeed. It does take more than a vision but much hard
work just to survive.

Welcome aboard to SMC it is a great forum. Start at the very first post and read them all
well worth the time invested.

One more important thing, pay no attention when a sales person tells, lasers, printers etc
is just like printing money, it ain't. They can reel you in before you know what hits you.;)


Good luck with your adventure!

Marty

[Scott Shepherd]

Just to add to what Marty said, do NOT believe any sales rep that shows you photos in marble and granite tells you how much money you can make.

There's been 100's of people on this forum try it (self included) and I can only recall 1 or 2 people that made money at it and it was because of their unique setup that allowed them to succeed.

Making money with anything photograph or image related is VERY difficult. Pets, brides, grooms, weddings, babies, they are all things that hook us emotionally, but I'd bet you can count the number of people making good money on any of them on one hand (on this forum).

They are great things to do from time to time, but it's really really tough to make money off them on a full time basis when every photo is different.

Just my opinion.

[David Fairfield]

Who goes to Flea markets? Treasure hunters looking for collectibles, cheapskates who want made in China socks, hagglers who like old junk, gawkers with nothing to do on a Sunday morning. Few of these people are going to line up to buy a customized laser trinket.

If you want to make money as a travelling flea market manufacturer, look into selling coffee or doughnuts. There are some neat machines that make it for you and the food people always seem to have customers.

Dave

[Martin Boekers]

Who goes to Flea markets? Treasure hunters looking for collectibles, cheapskates who want made in China socks, hagglers who like old junk, gawkers with nothing to do on a Sunday morning. Dave


Hey! That sounds like ME!:D

[Richard Rumancik]

Fred, sorry that a lot of responses seem to be negative as far as the flee market idea is concerned, but most people here who have tried it don't make a lot doing it. Any they are not attempting to take the laser with them. Lasers really are not very portable; personally, I could not envision driving around with a laser system.

Lasers can make higher-end products but the customers at flea markets are not usually planning to spend a lot of money.

The sublimation idea seems like a good alternative if you want to go flea markets and craft shows. You can actually make a product on a while-you-wait basis if you wanted. Photos are a lot quicker to sublimate and less trouble than lasering photos. You need a printer and heat press and workbench, a few tools, and some inventory. The equipment can also go into your home so you are not working in a trailer which is sitting in a heated garage in wintger. I still don't know if the flea-market budget will work with sublimation; you will have to figure that out. Many crafters do seem willing to work for pennies; you are not. Your fiancée wants to do the craft and flea market thing and you want to do industrial. You need to work this out. I agree there is probably more money in industrial but it may be challenging to get customers if you don't have a single location and are often on the road.

[Niklas Bjornestal]

I also have had little luck at selling stuff at flea markets, but they are a cheap way to advertice. I can get a table at a flea market for about $20 and many people look at the stuff and take business cards, which often gives sales later, the only thing i actually try to sell is small stuff like keyrings and butter knifes.

[Jim Beachler]

Fred, I do a little over 20 Art And Craft shows a year and make my living from them as well as from my wholesale business selling the same products to stores. I use a laser in addition to my other wood working equipment. If you want to make money at Art and Craft shows, you need to be the higher end shows and have unique products to be able to get in.

There are some shows in your area that on the higher end list. Such as the Edina Art show, Little Falls Craft show, Stone Bridge Art and Crafts festival are a few.

[Fred Hayen]

Thank you all I/we appreciate your wisdom and your comments. were re-evaluating and will keep you all posted at we move forward. You have been a lot of help and confirmed some of my suspisions as well. thanks again really appreciated.

Fred