I own a Grizzly again

[J.R. Rutter]

It has been a couple of years since we've had a Grizzly machine in the shop. It was finally time to replace the SCMS crosscut station with something faster and safer. The G0502 jump saw got a facelift of new safety features, so it finally made sense to bring one in to try. I also have an old Whirlwind upcut that we use for rough cuts because it doesn't cut very cleanly. The new Grizzly does a nice job - very close to the Forrest blade on a Dewalt 12" SCMS.

I must say that the huge guard that comes on the saw is way overkill for doing cabinet door parts. It would be less safe constantly reaching under the guard to pull out parts than just removing it, so that was the first step in installing it! The new trigger mechanism for the blade actuation is a two hand anti-tie-down system where you have to press two buttons simultaneously for the saw to activate a cut cycle. The foot pedal now triggers the little air cylinder clamp to hold the board against the back fence. We will be reworking that function because as it is now, you lose a fair amount of crosscut capacity.

All in all, a good purchase. The industrial Grizzly lineup seems like a great value if it holds up long term.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_7ftZyQvHxr8/TSe29jWwizI/AAAAAAAAA4g/pwFrLq1kMEk/s512/IMG_0740.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_7ftZyQvHxr8/TSe2-Cm_Y7I/AAAAAAAAA4k/oDmZ1pi-OCQ/s640/IMG_0743.JPG

[Neil Brooks]

The mill nearest my house uses -- I'm pretty sure -- the same one.

When I asked about it, they said that -- though they keep beating the snot out of it -- it keeps coming back for more.

Congrats !

[Jay Brewer]

Congratulations JR, looks like a great setup with the Tiger Stop. Are you useing the factory blade?

[Stephen Cherry]

Nice! The Griz gives a lot of bang for the buck.

[Van Huskey]

Now you have your jumpy saw!!! With the Tiger Stop you are going to be a cutoff machine. How many cutoffs did you say you do a week?

[J.R. Rutter]

Are you useing the factory blade?

I do have the factory blade on it still. I also have a 132T Amana that I will try at some point. I was pleasantly surprised by the blade that came on my Extrema rip saw, and the one on the Grizzly is also good quality.


Now you have your jumpy saw!!! With the Tiger Stop you are going to be a cutoff machine. How many cutoffs did you say you do a week?

Yay! I've been waiting a while for this one. Today we built 70 doors drawer facess, so that is somewhere around 300 parts cut on this saw. With defecting and end trims, that is easily 400-500 individual cuts.

[Van Huskey]

I do have the factory blade on it still. I also have a 132T Amana that I will try at some point. I was pleasantly surprised by the blade that came on my Extrema rip saw, and the one on the Grizzly is also good quality.



Yay! I've been waiting a while for this one. Today we built 70 doors drawer facess, so that is somewhere around 300 parts cut on this saw. With defecting and end trims, that is easily 400-500 individual cuts.

I knew it was a stupid high number. You will get plenty of use out of that saw!

[J.R. Rutter]

Well, the saw lasted exactly 3 years before the motor fried today. New motor is unavailable until sometime in April for $808. Saw itself is discontinued, no stock left. So now I'm waiting to hear back from a couple of industrial suppliers about a fast local replacement. It is a shame too, because I liked the two hand activation. I will definitely think twice before going down this road again... :-(

[J.R. Rutter]

The industrial Grizzly lineup seems like a great value if it holds up long term.

Nevermind.

[Rod Sheridan]

We had a few Pistorius cutoff saws, ran for decades, made in New York State.

I believe the company closed during the last economic collapse........Rod.

[Peter Kelly]

http://www.omgainc.com/product_detail.php?cid=7&scid=9&sku=901421

Not much more expensive than the Grizzly was if you're looking for a replacement.

[J.R. Rutter]

Omga is on the short list. +$3,000 over the Grizzly, but should last 20 years. I am tuning up the old Whirlwind that we use for pre-mill chopping to see if I can get the precision crosscut station going again today. Oliver and CanTek can be had somewhat locally, but they are Chinese as well.

[Peter Kelly]

Not exactly the same type of saw but I've heard these are good: http://www.ckmachinery.com/index.php/17-article-slide-show/60-graule-zs170n-cross-cut-saw

[Richard Coers]

Sorry for the trouble J.R. Did you ask Grizzly if they would rewind the motor for you? A friend fried a motor on one of their metal milling machines. He waited months for a replacement motor on the slow boat over here. He made a comment to Customer Service after waiting the first month, telling them he had the motor rewound locally instead of loosing more money waiting for the new one. The tech then said, Oh, we could have done that here"." He swore off Grizzly after that. I've not found them to be the greatest supplier when a business depends on it.

[J.R. Rutter]

Good thought on having them rewind, or at least getting a price. The Whirlwind cuts pretty well with a new blade and new pneumatics. It should be all hooked up tomorrow morning, then will have time to see about the Griz.

[Phil Thien]

Is there anything particularly special about this motor, that a replacement couldn't be supplied by a motor shop? I kind of thought there would be an induction motor with standard frame and a pulley mounted deep inside the thing, I'm surprised it is proprietary.

Edit to add I just went and looked at the parts diagram and sure enough, the mounting brackets look proprietary. OTOH, it seems like it would be possible to weld some angle iron to another motor. I know some guy was selling brackets to weld to motors for mounting on a Unisaw, so it would seem someone might be able to do the same thing with some angle iron to a motor for this guy.

Hopefully the one you've got can be rewound by Grizzly, though, that seems like less of a PITA.

[Stephen Cherry]

Seems like the motor should have lasted longer, but before writing off the machine, I'd pull out the motor and see what it could be replaced with. With a little luck, and a grainger catalog, you may be able to come up with something pretty quickly. In industry, motors go bad all the time, and lots of places will buy backup motors as cheap insurance. Or, just have it rewound, plus new bearings, and it should be good to go.

[Jeff Duncan]

Yeah I'm with Stephen, I'm sure you have a local motor shop that you use so I'd check with them as a rewind may be cheaper, (and certainly quicker in this case), than buying new? I'm not a fan of that companies stuff for the type of use I put on my equipment, but if the rest of the machine has held up, (surprising), then swapping motors is certainly cheaper than many of your other options;)

OTOH…..if you do spend a little time and give the Whirlwind the attention it needs, it will likely outperform the bear in quality and longevity. Well…..I guess it already has on longevity:rolleyes:

good luck,
JeffD

[Keith Outten]

Jeff,

Don't be surprised concerning the longevity of Grizzly machines, they have a pretty good track record. I own two Grizzly machines that are over 25 years old that have an unbelievable number of hours on them. I have two that are 20 years old and another that is 15 years old. I have used these machines without failure for years doing commercial work, none of them owe me a penny if they failed tomorrow.

Its not just me, there is a very long list of people here who have had the same experience with Grizzly machines. Considering the cost of the machines I purchased and the hours of running time I doubt any company could offer a better value. Perfect no but certainly fine machines if you aren't hung up on beautiful paint.

Just My 2cents.
.

[Phil Thien]

I was curious how much having a 10-HP motor rewound may cost, so I did a little googling and found this site:

http://www.themotorspecialist.com/the-real-cost-of-upgrading

I don't know ANYTHING about them, but the price they quote is $625 to $1000 depending on the desired efficiency when they're done (seems like $625 would be close to OEM efficiency).

Not terrible.

Hopefully Grizzly can rewind it for less.

I once had a brochure or catalog from a place that (I think) billed itself as one of the largest rewinders in the world. Their prices for universal motors were pretty unbelievably low. But I can't remember who it was.

[J.R. Rutter]

I could not get an answer from tech support or customer service on what it would cost. The rewinds are done in Springfield, not Bellingham.

[Phil Thien]

Here, I found them, try contacting these guys for some information:

http://eurtonelectric.com/

They may be able to quote a rough estimate for rewinding. And I noticed quite a few motors on their site with similar mounting, buying a new motor and adapting it may be possible.

[Jeff Duncan]

Jeff,

Don't be surprised concerning the longevity of Grizzly machines, they have a pretty good track record. I own two Grizzly machines that are over 25 years old that have an unbelievable number of hours on them. I have two that are 20 years old and another that is 15 years old. I have used these machines without failure for years doing commercial work, none of them owe me a penny if they failed tomorrow.

Its not just me, there is a very long list of people here who have had the same experience with Grizzly machines. Considering the cost of the machines I purchased and the hours of running time I doubt any company could offer a better value. Perfect no but certainly fine machines if you aren't hung up on beautiful paint.

Just My 2cents.
.

Keith, I'm glad you had good experiences with your equipment. I didn't, (nor do I want to now), start a Grizzly bashing here. They have a much better reputation with hobby guys than they do in pro shops, and I know there are a lot of guys out there perfectly happy with them. My own experiences having bought a couple machines from them myself years ago are….well different than yours:( I'm not going to go into details as I don't want to hijack the thread into something else. Though I'd be more than happy to detail my experiences offline if you desire. I'll just say I get much better value in pursuing other directions for my equipment…..but to each their own;)

JeffD

[Larry Edgerton]

I have bought a couple of motors from FactoryMation with good results at a fair price.

Larry, with a zero Grizzly tolerance shop.

[Keith Outten]

We are talking about a 3 year old machine right?
.

[Ronald Blue]

Apparently some people think that if you by expensive equipment it will never fail. I can prove them terribly wrong. You can buy what is considered to be the best available and it still breaks and worse then that.....sometimes repair parts are weeks or months away. Not one of these has a single key component that was sourced from Taiwan or China. Some of these components come from ....gasp....Germany or Austria. The only way around this is to either stock components yourself to avoid being down or find another source of repair parts. Sometimes both are required. I am talking about machines that cost several million dollars. I feel as always some want to get the club out and bash the bear but they are living in fantasy world if they think that's the only place this can and does happen.

[Phil Thien]

The only way around this is to either stock components yourself to avoid being down or find another source of repair parts.

I agree w/ this. I know some shops I've been in have entire spare machines from which they swipe parts. Sometimes they buy two brand-new, sometimes they buy a new one and then look for a used one.

[Jeff Duncan]

Actually it's nothing to do with thinking expensive equipment cannot fail. It's that better quality will generally yield better results. If you buy a pair of no name boots from the clearance bin they are probably not going to last as long as say a pair of Red Wing boots. That doesn't mean you couldn't get a bad pair of Red Wings, just that the odds are significantly better that they'll give a good service life.

Same thing with machinery. If your buying from a company, (any company), that thrives off making equipment as cheaply as possible, vs a company that focuses on quality over price, your odds are significantly better with the quality machine.

It's for this reason that I feel comfortable buying a 40 year old German shaper, but would be much less optimistic about a 20 year old shaper whether grizzly, Jet, Reliant, you name it;)

just my opinion though,
JeffD

[Shiraz Balolia]

Apparently some people think that if you by expensive equipment it will never fail. I can prove them terribly wrong. You can buy what is considered to be the best available and it still breaks and worse then that.....sometimes repair parts are weeks or months away. Not one of these has a single key component that was sourced from Taiwan or China. Some of these components come from ....gasp....Germany or Austria. The only way around this is to either stock components yourself to avoid being down or find another source of repair parts. Sometimes both are required. I am talking about machines that cost several million dollars. I feel as always some want to get the club out and bash the bear but they are living in fantasy world if they think that's the only place this can and does happen.

Thank you!

It is important to remember that we carried this machine for over 10 years and one of the reasons we discontinued it was because users tended to modify it, making it dangerous to the user. In fact the photos shown by the OP shows that our standard guard, oversized for a reason, was discarded and a much smaller guard installed in its place. We do not know what other modifications were made to the machine.

Another thing that comes into the equation is that in 3 years there were probably tens of thousands of cuts made, and if we had motor problems with these machines, we would have a ready supply of replacement motors on hand. Also, if the OP is searching for the best price on re-winding a motor and the shop is at a standstill then why is the seller of a discontinued machine, that was modified by the user, being held responsible for it well outside the warranty. To the OP - try Mac & Mac on Iowa Street for re-winding in town. Our re-winding shop is in PA and there is no guarantee that it will be cheap.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Here's a reality.

Companies discontinue products all the time. If a product isn't profitable or selling a large enough quantity, products get discontinued. Period.

Even with large scale, very expensive medical devices, previous regulations only required a manufacturer to maintain parts available for 7 years after the last production date. So if you bought a 2.2 million dollar (that's $2,200,000) machine, an MR scanner for example, and yours is the last one produced, the regulations only required the major parts to repair this machine be available for 7 more years. You still might have to wait for the part to be manufactured as it may not be in stock or accept a substitute that might require some additional onsite engineering. I don't know what current regulations require.

As a young family man, enlisted man, I re-enlisted in the US Navy in November 1970. I was going to a Navy school in Brunswick, GA at the time. A local Chevy dealer had a used Pontiac Lemans on their lot I wanted to buy but the dealer would not budge one penny on it's price.

Weeks later, I re-enlisted and got a nice lump cash sum for re-enlisting for 6 years. (I was in a critical rating which they were trying to retain.) I walked into the local Pontiac dealership and bought a brand new Pontiac T-37 they had on the lot. 6 cylinder, rubber floor mats, automatic transmission. Keep in mind this was the 1st year they put smog devices (in this case a "sump pump") on cars. Months later I found out this car would not run 75 MPH with 2 adults and 2 kids in the car. A year later just outside the 12 month, 12,000 mile warrantee expired when the alternator failed. Guess what? I had been sent to NAS Meridian, MS and the Pontiac dealer couldn't get a replacement alternator. I traded this in on a 1972 Chevelle, with everything you could get including 8-track player and vinyl top.

What is a T-37? "Are you still wondering what a T-37 is? According to the Pontiac Historical Society, the T-37 was a bare bones Lemans available only for the 1971 model year. The T-37 came standard with GM’s 250ci straight six cylinder engine and a column shifted three speed manual transmission, but it could also have been ordered with any of five V8 powerplants, including the legendary Pontiac 455. When the right option boxes were checked, the T-37 became a GT-37."

It's the only year that car was manufactured, it was discontinued and I could not get an alternator 12 months after I bought it. The dealership couldn't even recommend an alternative.


It is not a crime for a company to discontinue an unprofitable product line and not have current stock in parts. It's done all the time.

[Keith Outten]

Gentlemen,

A situation like this one deserves more serious thought than just picking at the facts. Whether machines are for hobby use or industrial applications doesn't change the fact that they are machines and they are going to fail.

Mission critical equipment needs to be purchased somewhat differently than a hobby machine in that a backup plan needs to be considered to protect a companies production capacity, not if a machine fails but when it fails. I grew up in the Nuclear Power industry, we engineered multiple systems for the most critical activities so we had a backup or multiple backup systems, in the event of a failure. When you need this kind of protection you provide for it, if you don't you suffer the consequences.

Consider that in the last few years the United States suffered a substantial blow to our economy which forced major changes in how all businesses react to supply and demand, in short it became extremely difficult to maintain inventory of new machines much less a mountain of spare parts. Even on a smaller scale today it is difficult to acquire simple plastic sheets from suppliers for laser engraving because they just don't stock inventory today as they did in the past.

Machines are built from parts supplied by multiple companies. The bearings come from company "X", the castings from company "Y" and the motors, electrical components, etc from a variety of other sources. When one component fails and the machine stops who is to blame? Now consider that the failed component was manufactured by a company that is no longer in business because they did not survive the economic dive to the bottom five years ago.

I can beat on you all day long because your companies name is on the equipment but it doesn't change the fact that due to conditions beyond your control you cannot provide the repair parts. Without a suitable substitute your only option is to cease offering that particular machine to your customers.

Imagine how we felt when a reactor coolant system pump failed at XYZ Power Station and the primary manufacturer didn't have a new pump sitting in their warehouse and we were told that it would take a year to get a new pump at a loss of 1.2 million dollars per day.....but thats another very long story.

The bottom line is you plan for failure when things are important to you or suffer the consequences whether your machines are brand new or old iron.