I need Plane Advise

[Larry Feltner]

I am a hobbyist woodworker. Aside from the occasional chisel, I haven't really used much in the way of hand tools. I really want to start buying some quality planes and learn how to use them. I was kind of leaning toward starting with a good block plane and then a smoother of some kind. However, I read an article in Fine Woodworking where the author advocates a low angle jack plane with multiple blades honed at different angles. I'm confused as to what is the best route. I don't mind slowly buying multiple planes over time if in the end that would preferable to one multipurpose plane. What is the best way to start and which plane or planes should I buy first? One thing I'm very interested in is finishing boards after they come off the planer instead of sanding and sanding and sanding.

[Peter Pedisich]

Larry,

I'm at the same stage as you, and if you can fit it into your budget, try a hand tool course. I took a Windsor chair course in 2004, and the instructor took my Stanley low angle block plane from my hand and made 34 seconds worth of adjustments and I was making translucent ribbons of oak. I wish I remembered his instructions:eek:
I may try watching an online video tutorial each night...

Good Luck,

Pete

[Mark Baldwin III]

Finishing a board after planing? I would look for a decent jointer (#6-8) and a smoother (#3-4, or a 5). If I could have only one, it would be in the smoothing department. Wait, I only have smaller stuff right now :) I'm a hobbyist/beginner myself! The funds you have to spend is a factor as well. As a hobbyist, it might be worth it to fettle a lesser Stanley or Woodriver, (I have some stanleys) versus buying a Lie Nielsen. A block plane is not the right tool for finishing a board IMO. Also, check out the Hock kits. I think wooden planes are great tools.

[Larry Feltner]

Finishing a board after planing? I would look for a decent jointer (#6-8) and a smoother (#3-4, or a 5). If I could have only one, it would be in the smoothing department. Wait, I only have smaller stuff right now :) I'm a hobbyist/beginner myself! The funds you have to spend is a factor as well. As a hobbyist, it might be worth it to fettle a lesser Stanley or Woodriver, (I have some stanleys) versus buying a Lie Nielsen. A block plane is not the right tool for finishing a board IMO. Also, check out the Hock kits. I think wooden planes are great tools.

Maybe I wasn't clear in what I meant about finishing a board. What I am talking about is smoothing the board mostly with a plane to get the snipe and imperfections out that the planer leaves behind, instead of smoothing it entirely by sanding. Saw the article in Fine Woodworking where one guy worked with hand planes and the other guy used sanding. The hand plane guy finished first and apparently had a higher quality surface at the end. It started me thinking about hand planes.

I know the block plane is not for smoothing boards. It has other uses. So I was thinking of starting there. But maybe a low angle smoother or jack would be a better choice over a block and smoother and whatever else might be needed. I'm just not sure what works best. I'm also not sure what to buy first and what planes to buy for general work that someone would do just starting out with hand planes. Right now I use a jointer and planer to surface my stock. I then sand to remove imperfections. I never touch a hand plane. I would like to learn how to use them. I just don't know where to start really.

[Jim Koepke]

Larry,

Welcome to the Cave by the Creek. If you are near South West Washington, you are welcome to come by my shop and give some different planes a workout to see what fits your work and needs best.

I also like to read magazine articles and learn from them, but often they are about what works best for the author. Many times they are over excited by a new toy.

I like my low angle jack plane, but for my use it is not the end all of hand planes.

One place that may be a good start to help understand what you are getting into is:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?103805-Neanderthal-wisdom-FAQs

Section 3. Tool usage and Maintenance/tuning has a couple of articles on hand planes.
Section 4 Technique: Task has some information on edge jointing boards.
Section 5 Tool Talk has some information on what to look for when buying used planes and some information on special purpose planes.
Section 6 Making your own is kind of obvious as to what it will have.
Section 7 Rehabbing Old Tools has information on what you may have to do if you do pick up an old plane at a yard sale or flea market.

Everyone has different opinions about what might be the best plane to use. In a way, they are all right. One person who thinks a bevel up plane works best is giving you their opinion on what works best for them. For my needs, old rehabbed Stanley/Bailey planes work fine. So, my opinion is that the old Stanley planes are pretty good. I will agree, that there is a lot less work to get a new Lie-Nielsen or Veritas plane to work right out of the box. They also will take a bit more wallet power to get one up and running in your shop.

Another thing to consider is the size of boards with which you will be working and the size of you and your hands. There are three sizes of planes that are generally considered smoothers. The #3 is 1-3/4" wide at the blade, the #4 has a 2" blade and the #4-1/2 has a 2-3/8" blade. They are 8, 9 & 10" in length respectively. The wider the blade, the more effort needed to take a shaving.

Block planes are usually good for the small work of rounding edges and smoothing end grain. Especially for end grain a low angle block plane is helpful.

You may also be in an area where there will be a tool show where the opportunity to handle planes and other tools is one of the reasons purveyors of fine tools have the shows.

jtk

[Mark Baldwin III]

Maybe I wasn't clear in what I meant about finishing a board. What I am talking about is smoothing the board mostly with a plane to get the snipe and imperfections out that the planer leaves behind,

You were clear, I probably wasn't. But yeah...the best planes for taking of the planer marks would be a smoother.

[Rick Erickson]

Larry, I think Jim is spot on with his advice/comments. Also, you can't go wrong with a LA Jack - I prefer the Lie-Niselen brand but the Veritas is also a nice plane. If I knew I was going to stick with hand planes it wouldn't be my first choice but if you unsure it is a great place to enter. You didn't mention your sharpening experience. Don't overlook this detail/skill when thinking of entering the hand tool arena. This skill is a must if you are to be proficient with hand tools. It will also add frustration and a quick exit if you aren't. Try to get your hands on a few of the planes and take them for a test drive. There is no substitue for that. If you post your location, there may be a fellow Creeker who can help out.

[Matt Hankins]

I have to agree with Jim and Peter, in that I think you should find someone in your neck of the woods that can show you what you need to do in person. I have read many articles and watched videos, but there is no substitute for being in the same room with a knowledgeable person. Plane tuning and sharpening can be a very frustrating experience if it doesn't go right. Usually the problem is a simple adjustment to your technique. Something that the best post or video can't tweak. Even if you buy a new high end plane you will eventually need to sharpen and adjust it. There are certainly some Creekers or other local woodworkers that would be willing to spend a couple of evenings showing off their shops and planes to help you out. Or, as Peter said, find a class. Once you gain the knowledge a whole new world of woodworking will be opened for you.
Matt

[Prashun Patel]

Yr getting advice from guys in a far superior league to me. So take with grain of salt:

I vote for first buying a new block plane from either Veritas/LeeValley or Lie Nielsen. The three general styles are 60 1/2 with an adjustable mouth, a smaller 102-style which fits smaller hands better IMHO, and a rabbeting block plane which has the blade flush to the cheeks, to enable trimming shoulders.

I have found block planes the easiest to use. The LV/LN planes come sharp out of the box, and will provide you a good model for what to aim for when sharpening next time. You can certainly get a cheaper plane and tune it, but for starters, I think this is not a big investment in a tool that will last a lifetime or will resell for close to the purch price.

Next, I think yr smart to get a #4 smoother next. If yr hands are bigger, perhaps a 4 1/2. I have a Veritas #4 bevel up smoother. It's the little brother of the Jack FWW talks about in the latest issue. I have both, but got the #4 first. The nice thing is that the 2 blades interchange, so you can match the plane/blade to the task.

If yr feeling adventurous, #4's are pretty common, and getting a good Bailey on ebay, and then tuning or replacing the blade can yield a great tool for less $$.

[James Taglienti]

OH - that was an article? I thought it was just a multi page advertisement.

[jamie shard]

You can't go wrong with a LN 60 1/2 block plane. It is such a great plane, not too expensive, and you could resell for nearly full value if you don't like it. You'll use the plane all the time and it will give you an idea of what a high quality plane can do right out of the box (with very little honing of the blade).

Then you can decide if you want to learn all the techniques of tuning up a vintage stanley #3 or #4 smoother... or spend the money and buy a LV or LN smoother. (Time vs. money.)

If planes were illegal and I was dealing on the street... the LN 60 1/2 would be be the gateway drug! :D


(A note on LV vs LN blockplanes: I have medium sized hands. The LN is smaller and fits my hands perfectly. The LV is larger and more massive. I bought it first but I'm not getting rid of it, I really like using the LV block plane it as a small shooting plane for carcass parts.)

[David Weaver]

OH - that was an article? I thought it was just a multi page advertisement.

Isn't that the case for most magazine articles?

I wouldn't want to do all of my woodworking with a BU plane.

If someone's a tool minimalist, it's handy to have a BU smoother with a couple of irons at different angles, but to go from rough lumber through thicknessing would be a pain with BU planes only.

If someone wanted higher angles, you can do the same thing with any plane, including a bench plane.

[Larry Feltner]

Some very good advice. There are so many different planes its hard to know where to start. Plus the point about sharpening is a great one. I sharpen my chisels but I would not say that I am expert by any means. I'm thinking a lot of learning will be going on down the road, and perhaps a lot of frustration. I live in Shelby County Kentucky. Not too far from Louisville. I would love some guidance if anyone close has some they would like to share. There is also a woodcraft store in Louisville and Lexington. Perhaps they have an introductory class on using, setting up, and sharpening planes. I'll check and see.

It sounds like there is not really agreement on where to start. I was thinking the block plane, but after reading some of this I'm leaning toward a smoother because I think I might use it more. I'm really thinking the logical place to start is with what you will use the most. I have started building furniture as a hobby. So maybe smoothing stock after it comes off the planer is where I would currently use a plane the most until I get more experience and understand what can be accomplished with the various planes out there. Does that make any sense?

[Rick Erickson]

Sure does Larry. A block plane and smoother are two very different planes with very different skills. THe local Woodcraft is a great place to start for learning and planes. Their (latest) WoodRiver planes are actually pretty decent users out of the box. Make sure you get their latest version though. Woodcraft can tell you which version they have. I was in a recent class (at Woodcraft) where the instructor pulled a WoodRiver No. 6 out of the box and sharpened it. It took beautiful shavings and left a very smooth surface within a few minutes. The sole was flat and the machining was very well done. I normally don't push people to buy import tools (gotta support the locals - Lie-Nielsen and Lee Valley to a degree) but for someone just getting into this they are a good place to start without a huge layout of $s or time. Good luck and hopefully someone in the Louisville area will read this thread and offer a site visit.

[Prashun Patel]

The nice thing about the LV 'trio' of planes is that they use the same width blade so the blades are interchangeable between the planes. I know it's not for everyone. I just happen to like this feature. I didn't mean to advocate using them exclusively.

[David Weaver]

A smoother is a very good way to start. You can use it for some trimming jobs, and it'll give you a good lesson on tearout, sharpness and things of that sort, without having to learn those lessons on a deep cut in rough stock.

It's also something you'll use a lot when you figure out how to remove plane tracks quickly with it - much faster than sanding, maybe with the exception of a commercial widebelt sander.

[Kevin Lucas]

Larry,

How often are you in Louisville? Woodcraft does do sharpening and plane classes. If you don't mind a messy garage I have 2 smoothers a 4 and a 4 1/2, wooden jointer and a #6 you can come fiddle with and see how you like hand planes.

[Terry Beadle]

For boards fresh from the thickness planer, a #5, #5 1/2, or a #6 would be the plane to start with. These are called jack planes. The bevel down LN jack will do the job if you are wanting a easy plane to learn on. It's a very versatile plane with an adjustable mouth. It's about 14 inches long and has a thick blade with no chip breaker to deal with. It can be used as a smoother but the length of sole limits it's ability to follow the surface dips where as a #4 or #3 with their shorter soles will follow the surface more easily.

A jack plane is the most used plane in normal stock preparation. The smoother on the other hand is used for a short time at the end of stock prep.

The usual pattern of plane learning and purchasing is a block plane to learn how to adjust and sharpen blades.
A jack plane to do the bulk of stock prep. Usually set to take a 4 ~ 6 thou shaving...which is easy enough to push but get the board ready effectively.
A jointer to actually flatten the surface and is set to take a 3 ~ 4 thou shaving or thicker if need be.
A smoother, set to take 1 ~ 3 thou shavings, to finally get the surface ready for any minimal sanding prior to finish application.

All that being said, you can use any one of the planes mentioned above ( including a block plane ) to prepare a piece of stock. It just takes longer or more skill not to use the proper wood plane for the stage of stock prep you are at. For example, a block plane could be used to flatten, square and prepare for finish a 4 inch small square box. On the other hand, a very famous English woodworker used a #7 for over 90 percent of his work.

Steve Knight has the best deal ( IMO ) on woodies and his prices make the kits a real bargain. I wouldn't recommend one as the very first plane but his small plane kits are excellent and will teach you a whole lot about wood planes both wood and steel and what to do to get them working right.

All the advice above by members is good. Maybe I should say excellent ! Something about a slippery slope comes to mind.

Enjoy the shavings !

[Jim Koepke]

Some very good advice. There are so many different planes its hard to know where to start. Plus the point about sharpening is a great one. I sharpen my chisels but I would not say that I am expert by any means. I'm thinking a lot of learning will be going on down the road, and perhaps a lot of frustration. I live in Shelby County Kentucky. Not too far from Louisville. I would love some guidance if anyone close has some they would like to share. There is also a woodcraft store in Louisville and Lexington. Perhaps they have an introductory class on using, setting up, and sharpening planes. I'll check and see.

It sounds like there is not really agreement on where to start. I was thinking the block plane, but after reading some of this I'm leaning toward a smoother because I think I might use it more. I'm really thinking the logical place to start is with what you will use the most. I have started building furniture as a hobby. So maybe smoothing stock after it comes off the planer is where I would currently use a plane the most until I get more experience and understand what can be accomplished with the various planes out there. Does that make any sense?

My thoughts are that since the boards will already have passed through a planer, the work of the jointer and jack have already been done.

If you need to edge joint boards, then the jointer will be essential if you do not have a power jointer or a table saw that cuts smooth enough.

It is good that you live close to a store where you may be able to take a couple of classes.

You may also want to consider Kevin's offer for some hands on and a little knowledge by osmosis.

jtk