Favorite way to cut mortise and tenons

[Van Huskey]

What is you favorite way to produce M&T joints (not floating tenons)?


I tend to like a square chisel mortiser and tenons cut on the band saw but curious how others feel. I have never used a FMT, only seen it demoed and they obviously make it look quick and easy.

[Rick Fisher]

I like to cut a ring around the end of the board for the tennon with the table saw and a miter guage.. It makes a nice clean edge.. Then remove up to the saw kerf with the bandsaw. I use a chisel to make the final fit to the mortise. I have a full size hollow chisel mortiser with a built in X-Y vice which is a real bonus for the mortises..

[Terry Welty]

http://www.mcfeelys.com/img/tenon-cutting-cmt-TG5-8627.jpgI use this CMT Tennon cutting router bit to cut the tennon using a home made sled on my router table, then I cut the mortise using a dedicated mortiser with a cross-slide vise. Slick set up!

[Rod Sheridan]

I use a hollow chisel mortiser for the mortise, and a sliding table shaper for the tenon..........Regards, Rod.

P.S. I just realized that with all the new snazzy methods of doing the above, I'm back a hundred years.:D

[Frank Drew]

I'd rather not use any method that limits the length of the tenon, since length and strength often go together in joinery.

A horizontal slot mortiser is, by far, the fastest and most accurate method I've used to make mortises (I've never used either a Maka or a chain mortiser, though). Angled work is easy, as is mortising the ends of boards of whatever length (try that on a hollow chisel mortiser :eek:).

For the tenon: Dado blades on the table saw with the work run flat, using a sliding table or miter gauge; very accurate and quite fast -- one setup cuts both cheeks and shoulders (vs using a tenon jig).

In my experience, it's then easiest to round the tenon corners rather than chop the mortises square.

[Of course, if you're not working against the clock, then whatever method works is fine, including entirely by hand.]

[glenn bradley]

Tablesaw and tenon jig for tenons, router and chisel for motrise.

[Jim Galvin]

Hollow chisel mortiser for mortises and dado blade to rough out tenons to about 1/32" oversize then pare shoulders & cheeks to fit mortise

[Jamie Buxton]

For straightforward M&T (that is, parts meet at 90 degrees/90degrees)... plunge router for the mortise, and tablesaw for the tenon. I make the cheek cuts with the workpiece standing vertical against the fence. For longer tenons, the bandsaw.

For tricky M&T (odd angles and such, as in chairs)... loose tenons. Plunge router for the mortise, jigged up to provide correct angle.

[Philip Rodriquez]

I use a bunch of methods... I guess it all depends on my mood and how much stuff I have to move around. I have a General mortiser, a Leigh FMT, a nice tenoning jig, hand planes, and chisels. For ease, it is hard to beat the FMT... and I now completely love floating tenons... because the math is so easy!

[Max Coller]

I use an obsidian adze of the appropriate size from my hand-made collection to hollow out the mortise and a sharpened mammoth tusk from a Siberian mammoth I personally found stuck in a glacier to fashion the tenon.

Er, is this too soon in the thread to start that?

Fine. Spoilsports.

I use a tenoning jig on my table saw to cut the whatchamacallits and a hollow chisel mortiser for that other part.

[Leo Vogel]

If I can't use my Leigh FMT, I change projects. Just kidding some, but it is great to use.

[pat warner]

Router & my fixturing for tenons (http://patwarner.com/images/index_tenon.jpg) and morticing (http://patwarner.com/images/prc508.jpg).

[Neil Brooks]

Pretty, Pat.

Shame to have to hide them ... by assembling the joint :)

[Lee Schierer]

I cut my mortices frst using a square chisel morticer on my drill press. I cleanup the mortices with a hand chisel and then fit the tenons to them. I make eh shoulder cuts on the tenon first on my table saw and make eh cheek cuts using a tenonning jig on my TS. I get flat sides on the tenons and can tweak the fit to my mortices.

[Sean Hughto]

For the Mortise: pigsticker or hollow chisel mortiser

For the tenon: Handsaw, chisel, and router plane

[Van Huskey]

Actually, Terry's method of using the "new" CMT bits was the genesis of this question. I looked at them again for the first time since they appeared at IWF in '08 and it looks like a very slick way to make tenons up to 3/8" which would cover the vast majority of my needs.

[Richard McComas]

I like using the shaper. In the first picture you see two stacked 8'' rebate cutters with a spacer between them.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/rmccomas0043/8shapercutter.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/rmccomas0043/Cuttingtenons1.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/rmccomas0043/Cuttingtenons-1.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/rmccomas0043/Cuttingtenons2.jpg

[Stephen Cherry]

I like using the shaper. In the first picture you see two stacked 8'' rebate cutters with a spacer between them.




Nice! THis is the kind of setup I am working towards. Also, I may need to borrow those clamps (joke)!


I've tried a bunch of the others. Bandsaw, table saw using jig and dado, etc. They can all be made to work well. With the saws, I use a block of wood as a spacer matched to the mortise chisel to get the thickness right. I like the face down on the shaper tenoning idea because it can very precisely set the tenon position on the wood. This goes for the sliding tables on the mortiser as well.

[Van Huskey]

Richard, I think you should save your pennies and buy you a REAL shaper.... :)

[Van Huskey]

Now cutting tenons on a shaper has me intrigued. I know those big 8" rebate heads are HUGE money. Are their any cutters that are smaller and less expensive? Links?

[George Neill]

I prefer using a mortice chisel for the mortices, but I'd like a morticer again purely to save my joints. I've never had a table saw, but I use the bandsaw or handsaws for cutting the tennons.

[Steve Griffin]

Tetons: Can't think of the last time I didn't use a dado blade and table saw. I hate teton jigs though. The shoulder cut is the only thing that shows, and tenon jigs are the worst at making a clean cut on the shoulder.

Mortiser: Makes a sloppy hole, but that's why I always have shoulders on the tenons.

-Steve

[Van Huskey]

Tetons:

Given your avatar and location would these been Grand Tetons? :)

[Rod Sheridan]

At the most basic level a pair of 10 inch rip blades with a spacer will cut both cheeks at once, with a precise tenon thickness, then you can cut the shoulders on the saw.

You can also use a single rebate head, or a single tenon cutter and flip the piece over to cut the other side.

A shaper makes great tenons.

Regards, Rod.

[Rod Sheridan]

Now cutting tenons on a shaper has me intrigued. I know those big 8" rebate heads are HUGE money. Are their any cutters that are smaller and less expensive? Links?

I believe the Christmas Felder catalogue has a rebate head for $223 http://mirrorfelder.cnh.at/Teaser-pdf/shop/WA2010/Felder_Christmas_Promotion_2010_USA_02_enc.pdf

You have to flip the board over to do both sides.

Or you could buy 2 and do both sides.

I've also used 2 X 10 inch rip blades with a spacer to make 2 cheek cuts at once, then cut the shoulders on the table saw when I needed tenons longer than my cutter could produce........Rod.

P.S. That's a 150mm head I was mentioning with a max tenon length of 39mm.

[Steve Griffin]

Given your avatar and location would these been Grand Tetons? :)


HAH!--as a matter a fact I can see them from my shop. :D



-Steve

[Peter Quinn]

I've tried a few methods to make the mortises, I like the slot mortiser. Most other methods are painful to me by comparison. And once I get going, I often just make two slots and...ooops, loose tenons were excluded. Why exactly? You can glue the rail side in and let it set up if that makes it feel more traditional! For small tenons I like the TS with a dado or a tenon jig. For larger tenons the BS is quick, the dado works but gets a bit messy. I'm pretty close to having the sliding table on my shaper working, I have a 7" head from a single end tenoner that will do up to 2 3/8" depth and I'm anxious to try that. It will take two passes with a flip. The coolest shaper tenon setup for a small shop I have seen is a Leitz cutter that can be an adjustable groover, or the plates can be inverted and used for tenons with a spacer in between. Not sure the cost new as the set I saw was used. That is the direction I am heading. Stock flat on the table, stock controlled with clamps for safety, and the precision typical of a shaper. Something about pulling the handle on a chisel mortiser that makes me feel like a caveman.

[Stephen Cherry]

The coolest shaper tenon setup for a small shop I have seen is a Leitz cutter that can be an adjustable groover, or the plates can be inverted and used for tenons with a spacer in between. Not sure the cost new as the set I saw was used. That is the direction I am heading. Stock flat on the table, stock controlled with clamps for safety, and the precision typical of a shaper. Something about pulling the handle on a chisel mortiser that makes me feel like a caveman.

Laguna has these also:
http://www.lagunatools.com/accessories/shaper-cutter/Laguna-Adjustable-Grooving-Cutter

I don't know if the page is not working, but they all look like they are 495 spacebucks, even the big ones.

[Doug Mason]

Hey Peter & Stephan,

I have a pair of Felder cutters (exactly what Peter is talking about above) that is comprised of two plates inbetween which you place a spacer to cut tenons and brridle /slip joints. They are almost 9 1/2 inches wide. I'll post a pic this weekend.

[Stephen Cherry]

Hey Peter & Stephan,

I have a pair of Felder cutters (exactly what Peter is talking about above) that is comprised of two plates inbetween which you place a spacer to cut tenons and brridle /slip joints. They are almost 9 1/2 inches wide. I'll post a pic this weekend.

Hi Doug

I've seen a bunch of these cutters at the Felder open house this past summer. They look very well put together, plus they may still be on sale. The only problem is that I think that they are 30 mm, which is not as common as 1.25 inch.

[Richard McComas]

Hi Doug

I've seen a bunch of these cutters at the Felder open house this past summer. They look very well put together, plus they may still be on sale. The only problem is that I think that they are 30 mm, which is not as common as 1.25 inch.

As I undersand it Leitz makes a lot of Felder's tooling. Yes it 30 mm bore.

[Richard McComas]

one of our members emailed me asking about a source for the air clamps in my photos. I tried to email you back but you have set in your profile not to receive emails.

[Stephen Cherry]

As I undersand it Leitz makes a lot of Felder's tooling. Yes it 30 mm bore.

I think that it is made by Leitz- at least some of it. Also, I like that Felder actually tells you the prices on some of their products, right now I think that they still have their sale flier up. I've had a little interaction with their office in Delaware- great people to deal with.

As for the 30mm- First of all, you could get a Felder shaper. If that's not in the budget, you could space up from an inch, get a 30 mm spindle specific to your machine, or maybe have a 1.25 inch spindle turned down, or 30 mm opened up. 1.25 is the easy answer for spindle size, but Felders offering of tooling makes 30 mm very attractive.

[Richard McComas]

I think that it is made by Leitz- at least some of it. Also, I like that Felder actually tells you the prices on some of their products, right now I think that they still have their sale flier up. I've had a little interaction with their office in Delaware- great people to deal with.

As for the 30mm- First of all, you could get a Felder shaper. If that's not in the budget, you could space up from an inch, get a 30 mm spindle specific to your machine, or maybe have a 1.25 inch spindle turned down, or 30 mm opened up. 1.25 is the easy answer for spindle size, but Felders offering of tooling makes 30 mm very attractive.

The Felder machine have inter-changable spindels and you can buy a 1 1/4 spindel if one wishes to. I have some 1 1/4 tooling and use spacers as you say. Works just fine.

[Scott Rollins]

Well Rich, that is one awesome machine!

[Peter Quinn]

Laguna has these also:
http://www.lagunatools.com/accessories/shaper-cutter/Laguna-Adjustable-Grooving-Cutter

I don't know if the page is not working, but they all look like they are 495 spacebucks, even the big ones.

I think that may be my next move, the next time Laguna has a 50% off sale. Seems they have them about twice a year? I got a rabbit cutter last time that works great. I love the garniga stuff, and 180 MM is the largest thing that fits in the hole in my table. The Leitz unit I saw was pretty much the same thing.

[Patrick Johnson]

What is you favorite way to produce M&T joints (not floating tenons)?


I tend to like a square chisel mortiser and tenons cut on the band saw but curious how others feel. I have never used a FMT, only seen it demoed and they obviously make it look quick and easy.

I like cutting tenons on the table saw just using a single blade and going back and forth a few times to clean up the stock. I then clean up the tenon with a file. Quick and easy. For the mortises, I use a shop built mortising jig and router.

Patrick

[Richard McComas]

I like cutting tenons on the table saw just using a single blade and going back and forth a few times to clean up the stock. I then clean up the tenon with a file. Quick and easy. For the mortises, I use a shop built mortising jig and router.

Patrick

If you have the spindle length you can make an axillary table for you shaper with a larger hole.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/rmccomas0043/SHAPERTABLE-2.jpg

[Patrick Johnson]

If you have the spindle length you can make an axillary table for you shaper with a larger hole.



I don't have a shaper...could never justify one. The table saw works fine for cutting tenons. Lay the work piece flat on the tablesaw, set the blade height to the depth of the cheek cut and have at it. A dado blade can reduce the time to cut the cheeks, but that's also an additional setup.

Patrick

[Mike Cruz]

I do the same as Rick, but remove the rest of the material with dado blades in the same fashion as I cut the shoulder.

[Charles Lent]

I've used many methods to cut M & T joints, but bought a Leigh FMT jig about 5 years ago in an effort to speed up a project having hundreds of M & T joints. It worked out so well that it is now the only way that I make M & T joints. It quickly makes precise fits every time, and doing multiple joints using the same setup doesn't even require any layout. You lay out and set up the first joint and then the fixture correctly positions the stock for the repeat joints.

Charley