Overhead Dust collection drop to Table saw

[Joel Griffies]

Newbie to the site but have been reviewing the tons of great info (and photos) on dust collectors/setups and it has really helped me with the design.

Moved into a new house and have a 15x ~35' space. After reading and pricing have decided on the Grizzly G0440 cyclone and will be running 6" pvc.

I plan to run the ducting along the wall/ceiling and then across the room and out into the middle as needed for things liek my table saw.

So I'm looking for some guidance on where to place the drop for the table saw. I THINK it makes sense to run it toward one of the back corners of the saw, but which one? Pardon my ignorance as this may be a stupid question. My reflex is that is should be back right but does anyone have experience or opinions on this? (yeah, I said the magic word, opinions! :) )

Thanks in advance for any input!

Joel G

[Paul Wunder]

Joel,

Welcome to the Creek. Lots of good, knowledgeable people here. The experts will soon chime in. I have learned a great deal from my following the threads.

The back/right is logical. Try to run hard piping as low as you can go before switching to flex. As you know, this will keep friction loss to a minimum. Are you also planning on a table top pickup also from the blade guard? You could then make a single drop split to support both the top and bottom.

Have you looked into the ClearVue cyclone? Lots of satisfied users on the Creek. Although the Grizzly G0440 is an excellent choice if it will support your particular tools and way of working.

Paul

[Philip Rodriquez]

I have a 6x5x4 wye at the back right of my TS. One serves the TS and the other is for my Excalibur blade guard. The back left side would be in the way since it is too close to the blade and outfeed area. Problem solved!

[Joe Cowan]

I have just hooked up my cyclone to my TS. I put my drop at the back left, as that was the side of the dust port at the bottom of the saw. I also ran a 2 1/2" line off of that same drop, to my shark guard on top of the blade. I was worried about it being in the way, but so far it has worked fine and I love the dust pick up that I get from the shark guard. It is amazing how much dust flies up as the blade come up out of the wood. I have had to cut half way through some plywood pieces, pull it out and then cut the other side, due to the 4" line being in the way, but most times it is fine. I may have to come up with a quick dis-connect to this line, so I can cross cut bigger pieces without the line being in the way.

[glenn bradley]

I go to the back right but, my mast for my overarm is already there ;-) In my shop the area to the right of my saw is no-man's-land; ducting, electrical, cyclone, etc.

[William Long]

I've not been able to post my new piping run yet for my shop... but here's a sneak peek at my table saw setup


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[Joel Griffies]

Wow, wow, wow. Thank you guys so much. It is very cool to get so many responses so quickly and from folks that have ben there arelady. Thanks William and Glenn for the photos. A picture is definitely worth a thousand.
Have to work tomorrow but off to get some ducting on friday and hopefully get things going soon!
THanks guys!

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I like the back right as to minimize any obstruction moving large stock around in the vicinity of the saw. Also, if you mount something permanently affixed to the walls or ceiling with rigid duct, you may prohibit the mobility of the saw. I, like many others, have small home shops whereby keeping things mobile is important.

By the way, if you are also new to woodworking, you sure did your homework as far as the system components you selected.

-Jeff :)

[Joel Griffies]

I like the setup glen. Clustering the machines makes sense. Is that an original design on the overhead for your saw or did you buy it.

Thanks

Joel

[Jay Maiers]

I go to the back right but, my mast for my overarm is already there ;-) In my shop the area to the right of my saw is no-man's-land; ducting, electrical, cyclone, etc.

Glenn, is that a home-brew blade guard and overarm?

[glenn bradley]

I like the setup glen. Clustering the machines makes sense. Is that an original design on the overhead for your saw or did you buy it.

Thanks

Joel


Glenn, is that a home-brew blade guard and overarm?

That is the inexpensive PennState model that I picked up back when I had a contractor saw. It is simple but well made and has worked as designed for years. It turns out I don't do much with sheet goods so when I upgraded saws I didn't bother to upgrade the overarm. It works well with the 2HP cyclone but, was pretty worthless with my previous smaller DC.

If you are going to be doing a lot of work where you can use an overarm, I would look at the Excalibur or other arm with larger ducting. This one is reduced to 3" at the horizontal and works adequately for the limited work I do where it is employed. Don't get me wrong, I am glad to have it. If it came into play more often I would probably just modify it to accept a 4" duct since I already have it. If I knew I would do a lot of large panel cutting or long-run ripping, I would upgrade to a larger unit.

[Philip Rodriquez]

As previously mentioned, I have a 6x5x4 wye at the back-right side of my TS. The 4” line that feeds my Excalibur BG is connected with Rockler’s Dust Right (I think that’s what they call it) system. It allows me to quickly disconnect the line and attach it to my router table and FMT. It also allows me to clean off my outfeed table. I love the setup!

[Jim O'Dell]

My opinion ;) is just off the right rear corner. Make sure the pipe is not in the way of ripping/crosscutting with the fence to it's furthest spot. Otherwise, if it is in the way, you just reduced the capacity of your saw. Left corner? Again, in the way, especially cutting down sheet goods, if you do that on your saw...I do. Some people put their TS against the wall on the right side and that way the pipe can be on the floor if need be.
The biggest improvement Grizzly did when they brought out the G0690/691 saws is that the dust port is on the right side (correct side!! :D) of the saw. Not the back side, not the left side as saws have been in the past. It and It's Laguna cousin are the only saws I've seen with this feature. Not really sure who did the design work for this, but I'd like to buy them a soda. Jim.

[eugene thomas]

I ran 6" main to end of outfeed table and have 3- 4" lines coming off for table saw and floor sweap. 176780

[Ole Anderson]

William,

Nice setup. Is that 5" or 6" flex to your TS lower dust port? Looks like 4" to your Shark Guard and is that a 7" main duct run? I am into the design phase for mine. Looking at a 3" drop for a yet to be purchased shark guard.

[Bob Riefer]

Can I piggy back with a related question?

Understanding that 6" is preferred, but since I'm using free 4" PVC for my main and drops... Can I still do an overhead drop to the top of my cabinet saw? I was planning on a 4" pipe from beneath the table into the cabinet with some sort of "funnel" beneath the blade to direct the dust into that pipe, and from a separate branch that's passing above my saw to the other side of my shop reduce down to a shop vac hose (I think that's 2.5") to the blade guard. The run from my HF 2 HP DC to both of these locations is about 12 feet.

[William Long]

William,

Nice setup. Is that 5" or 6" flex to your TS lower dust port? Looks like 4" to your Shark Guard and is that a 7" main duct run? I am into the design phase for mine. Looking at a 3" drop for a yet to be purchased shark guard.

Ole,

It's a 7" main duct down to 4" for the Shark Guard and 5" flex to the TS & Joiner. I had to make my own connections for the TS and Joiner, as they had 4" as usually. NO dust at all in the air! Pipe and connectors all from Spiral Mfg.

[Bruce Seidner]

I've not been able to post my new piping run yet for my shop... but here's a sneak peek at my table saw setup


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Am I missing something? How do you prevent the guard from moving laterally. I don't see any support other than the duct hanging from the ceiling. I like the idea of no other mechanicals but can't imagine how this would work. Enlighten me.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Can I piggy back with a related question?

Understanding that 6" is preferred, but since I'm using free 4" PVC for my main and drops... Can I still do an overhead drop to the top of my cabinet saw? I was planning on a 4" pipe from beneath the table into the cabinet with some sort of "funnel" beneath the blade to direct the dust into that pipe, and from a separate branch that's passing above my saw to the other side of my shop reduce down to a shop vac hose (I think that's 2.5") to the blade guard. The run from my HF 2 HP DC to both of these locations is about 12 feet.

Bob...I had s similar set up many years ago using 4" duct and its performance was poor. Mostly because a tablesaw with above and below dust collection is one of those tools in my shop that really benefits from 6" duct all the way to the dust collector as to make it truly functional.

I will also go as far to say that the lower port on most tablesaws (that is, the ones that do not have a specifically designed blade dust shroud) is underwhelming in performance whereby warranting an overarm collection device. I've experienced this and have read many other folks complaining about it. In fact, I believe this forum and others have influenced manufacturers to add dust shrouds as a result.

My recommendation would be to upgrade the duct to 6". This was the most significant improvement in perfomance in my home system that I've experienced with a 2hp collector.

Jeff :)

[Ole Anderson]

My guess is that the TS is the main producer of FINE dust in your shop, (presuming you have a downdraft table for sanding) because of the lack of topside collection, the open front where the lift wheel swings for mitering, and the usual lack of an internal dust shroud. The high speed of the blade with typically 60 teeth spinning 4000 rpm making 240,000 cuts per minute makes for fine dust, particularly when crosscutting. Sure the planer creates a huge volume of chips, but not much dust because of a cleaner cut and only about 20,000 cuts per minute, and you are never crosscutting. Now maybe if you use your router a lot without any dust collection...

And I agree that using 4" mains, just because it is free, is a mistake. Go to the BORG and price a 5' length of 26 gauge snap lock 6" galvanized duct and you will see that it isn't a big deal, well under $2 per foot. A 4" duct will only carry 350 cfm at most for any distance. Not enough for your bigger machines. And you strangle your powerfull 1200 cfm collector. This is why I will go with 7" mains like William did and Bill Pentz recommends in order to carry 1000 cfm.

[Joel Griffies]

I ran 6" main to end of outfeed table and have 3- 4" lines coming off for table saw and floor sweap. 176780


Very cool Setup Eugene. Love that Excalibur. Just curious, is it moveable without much trouble if you want to work on that table in another way?

THanks!

Joel

[Jim Tobias]

Joel,
Here is an earlier link about overhead support for a Shark Guard. May be some ideas in this.

Jim

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?151344-Show-me-your-Shark-Guard-DC&p=1548270&highlight=#post1548270

[eugene thomas]

177546177545it can be moved out of way with flip of the locking lever. all i do is lock guard up so cleares the splitter and swing back.

[William Long]

Am I missing something? How do you prevent the guard from moving laterally. I don't see any support other than the duct hanging from the ceiling. I like the idea of no other mechanicals but can't imagine how this would work. Enlighten me.

Well, that's a lot of pipe in my shop and with it all connected together it's pretty solid. Also, if you look at the drop at the back of the saw it's connected to the floor via a 5" cap and flange. I could climb it if I wanted :).

[Philip Rodriquez]

The excalibur just swings out of the way. It has a pivot point at the end of the table.

[Rick Moyer]

Well, that's a lot of pipe in my shop and with it all connected together it's pretty solid. Also, if you look at the drop at the back of the saw it's connected to the floor via a 5" cap and flange. I could climb it if I wanted :).


Am I missing something? How do you prevent the guard from moving laterally. I don't see any support other than the duct hanging from the ceiling. I like the idea of no other mechanicals but can't imagine how this would work. Enlighten me.

Bruce, I am still confused as well.
William, what is keeping the over-the-blade guard from moving side to side?

[William Long]

Bruce, I am still confused as well.
William, what is keeping the over-the-blade guard from moving side to side?


Sorry, I miss read.

It's a Shark Guard with a 4" attachment and knife. So it's attached to the TS. Does that help?

[Kent A Bathurst]

I don't have an overarm connection - just the one for the cabinet. I run the 5" metal pipe across the floor to the TS. Been there 7 years. Haven't tripped on it in 6 years.

My shop space is tight. If I had a vertical drop, it would interfere with any number of things - moving lumber, getting sheet goods to the TS, etc. Plus - I have my 52" fence/table, and the outfeed table, "squared off" so there is roughly 6' x 6' flat area for finishing + assy. A vertical drop would get in the way of those tasks also.

Not recommending my solution. Just an alternative if there is on overarm collection. The pipe on the floor really, honestly, no-foolin' doesn't get in the way. Well, not for 6 years and counting. Spouse + visiting neighbors know there are many sneaky traps in the shop, including pipe on the floor. Be ware, or keep out. :p

[Rick Moyer]

Sorry, I miss read.

It's a Shark Guard with a 4" attachment and knife. So it's attached to the TS. Does that help?

I hate to sound really stupid but WTH: So the Shark Guard attaches to the riving knife, thereby making it stationary? That would make sense then. Sorry, but I haven't looked into the different over the blade options yet as far as how they mount. From your pic, it seems like the shroud is just hanging down from the flex hose with no means of attachment. I guess I should look how a Shark Guard mounts.

[Paul Cameron]

Glenn, nice install on the G0440. I'm looking at the same unit and was wondering about its ability to mount the intake port in any position desired (rotation). Your picture indicates this is possible. Any further comment? I also plan to mount the filter assembly on a separate wall (to make it fit the space better). Do you seen any issue with this outside of maybe getting a longer flex hose?

Thanks,

Paul

[glenn bradley]

Any further comment?

I checked with Grizzly prior to ordering and they stated there is no issue with the positional relationship, rotation-wise between the intake and the output for the blower. It has worked out great as far as reducing the footprint, making the filter scrubber handles easy to reach and duct routing. My only regret (and it is a small one) is that I couldn't shoe-horn a G0441 into that spot.


I also plan to mount the filter assembly on a separate wall (to make it fit the space better). Do you seen any issue with this outside of maybe getting a longer flex hose?

This gets into some science I am not prepared for ;-) I do not know how the additional capcitive load of the air mass in the extended hose between filter and blower may or may not affect things. A call to Grizzly would be your best bet.

[David Kumm]

You can move the dust canister away from the saw with minimal inpact but I would not use flex if it can be avoided. Spiral pipe and sweep fittings have much less resistance and make for a rigid installation. If you call your furnace and hvac guys, they may have a boneyard of spiral from jobs that can be had pretty cheap. The spiral isn't so expensive, the fittings are where the money goes but it is also not all bad to be able to change it out. Seems like I change my mind on layout as often as my wife changes her shoes. Dave

[Chris Parks]

This is the best one for a few reasons....

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?129789-Table-Saw-dust-collection-from-the-top

It does not need fixing to the saw so presents no obstruction and does not choke the air as the timber is pushed through as most do. No air flow, no dust pick up.

[Jim O'Dell]

OK, I started a reply last night, was close to finishing and we lost power. Normally not a big problem, but the battery for my APC back up is out...new one will be here tomorrow. :rolleyes: So here I go a second time, hopefully before the power goes back out. (Didn't come back on until 10:30 this morning.)
I missed the posts asking about the horizontal movement of the overhead guards. Yes, that is an issue as well as front to back movement. But it's easy to take care of. I used 2 pieces of Oak, 3/4" thick, 2" wide, and about 38" long. Routed a 7/16" slot in the center for about 14" at one end. and a single hole at the other end of each as a pivot point. I have one mounted to the rear, and one to the right side to stabilize the mounting arm. You can still move the head some, but not enough to be a problem. Here's a picture. 192725 I used 3/8" bolts with fender washers, and a couple of knobs to tighten it down in position. Easy project to do and finish. This setup allows me to raise the whole thing up against the ceiling to get it out of the way when need requires. Jim.

[Chris Parks]

I have followed Alan Schafter's which I posted the link to, it has no movement and no need for lateral stabilisers. I used no flex pipe so fixing the sloping pipe to the roof and joining the ducting from the ceiling makes it rigid and it does not move, the lower part hinges back to clear the saw as does Alan's. It is not finished yet as I am waiting on the brushes. I built it in 4" as it is open the same time as the cabinet port and the cabinet port works extremely well which I was surprised at as everyone says they are hard to make work.

[Jim O'Dell]

Yes Chris, I remember Alan's design, and it is a good working unit. It still has a 3 point mount to stabilize the unit, it's just that it's a fixed design instead of a floating design. One is not better than the other, just different. I do wonder if there is a way to change that design so that it hinges farther toward the ceiling thus allowing more of it to be out of the way if the need were to arise, yet still keep it stable. Hmmmm... Jim.

[Chris Parks]

Jim. it could be done, hinge it further up and use a rope and pulley system. As I said above I have no movement issues because I did not use flexible pipe. The reason I did not use flex pipe was because I did not want to slow the flow down and as a result it has turned out very well. I suck at posting pictures but I will give it a go.

The main reason I liked Alan's was the fact that at no time is the air flow impeded or reduced and his is the only one I have seen that has zero impact on air flow. When a rigid guard/dust pick up rests on a piece of timber with and that timber slides under the guard it reduces air flow to the point that some become nearly fully sealed, no air in = no air out as we all know. Alan's might not have an unimpeded air flow, pretty obvious really, but it would never be totally blocked and thus stall the air. I am thinking that these dust hoods need an inlet port to let air in and have a high speed flow through them to catch and suspend the dust so it goes out the DE port. I think I will build one and see how it goes.