which electric wire?

[Jeff Bartley]

This topic may have been covered already but....
Which is better a solid romex wire or a braided extension-cord type? I'm running this cord to a 5 hp clearvue which is about 20 feet from the outlet (30-amp). I have both (each is 10 gauge) but am wondering which would be the best choice. This will (hopefully) complete my over-a-year-long cyclone project!
Thoughts?
Jeff

[Matt Meiser]

I absolutely wouldn't use Romex for a cord.

[Ron Natalie]

You can not use NM (Romex) for a cord. It's not approved for that.
If your unit was hard wired and affixed so that it didn't move, then you could get away with NM.

[Lee Schierer]

I'm with Matt, solid core wire should not be used where it will be called upon to flex as a matter of routine. I don't believe code allows the use of solid core wire for extension cords.

[George Bregar]

I would run a new circuit to the location of the DC.

[Jeff Bartley]

Thanks for the input guys.
I can run a new circuit but it would have to be through conduit on the outside of the wall. In use this wire will not be flexed and the unit will not move. It's a clearvue cyclone housed within a sound dampening closet so it's gonna stay put. In order to meet code I know I'll either have to use an approved extension cord or run romex through an approved conduit. But as I have both wires on-hand I'm wondering which will conduct the electrons more efficiently?
Some day I hope to have a shop on its own panel so I can install a switch to turn off power to all machines....

[George Bregar]

Not an expert but i think that's not allowed:

NEC Rules
The National Electrical Code contains some rules for using extension cords. Some of the rules state that
extension cords are not permitted to be used:
• As a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure;
• Where run through holes in walls, structural ceilings, suspended ceilings, dropped ceilings, or floors;
• Where run through doorways, windows, or similar openings;
• Where concealed behind building walls, structural ceilings, suspended ceilings, dropped ceilings, or
floors.

[Dan Hintz]

Jeff,

If this machine can be moved, via vibration, pushing, etc. (even if you don't intend to move it), Romex should not be used. Solid wire is not flexible enough to handle a lot of movement, which eventually leads to opens, arcing, and fires.

[Joe Angrisani]

And you can't run romex in conduit.

[George Bregar]

I don't believe it's allowed to run any extension cord of any type in a conduit. The OP has stated that he is concerned with meeting "code"...I think the only way for him to do that is run a new circuit or extend the existing circuit into the DC room, install the appropriate receptacle, and simply plug the DC in there.

[Jeff Bartley]

Well, it looks like if I run an extension cord of proper gauge I'd be good as far as code is concern; but that leaves an extension cord across the shop. I like George's idea of running a new circuit and plugging in right next to the unit. But if you can't run romex or a braided extension type cord through conduit, what type of wire can be run through conduit????

[George Bregar]

I don't think you can for the reasons I posted, but I'm no expert. But run 10 ga THHN/THWN single conductor for the hots and ground.

[Trevor Howard]

I would also run a new circuit, using THHN wire in suitable Conduit. Whether the extension cord is allowable by NEC code would not be my problem, it would be the 20ft trip hazard.

It's also amazing how, if we drop something it always lands where we don't want it to. Causing more damage. ;)

[Greg Portland]

I own a Clearvue and it is bolted into the wall. Trust me, there will be vibration! I would strongly recommend braided extension cord. +2 on George's idea of extending the existing circuit. However, I would skip the receptacle and hard-wire the DC using a dual pole contactor controlled via RF remote (Christmas tree light remote, etc.). Having a remote for your DC is very nice!. It should cost you about $75 for the parts (enclosure, contactor, remote).

Jeff, you can run individual braided wires through conduit. For my shop I used steel Wiremold product (4000 series) and various spools of conduit rated braided wire. This setup takes a bit longer because you need to pull 3+ wires for each circuit but you'll get greater flexibility in the end. If I need to add a circuit I can simply pop off the wiremold covers, add the new wiring, and install the circuit (boxes fit into the conduit). The conduit is rated for a maximum number of 'hot' wires.

[Alan Trout]

As an inspector if romex is used it needs to be in the wall and protected It cannot be stapled or secured to wall sheathing. If exposed? run EMT to a junction box near the unit and pull appropriate sized stranded wire rated to be run in the EMT (THHN). Then use flex such as raintight or metal flexible conduit to the motor or relay and take it from there.

Good Luck

Alan

[Dan Hintz]

And you can't run romex in conduit.
Sure you can, it just depends on the situation. My carport is powered by outdoor-rated Romex run in conduit 2' below grade.

[Jeff Bartley]

Guys, big thanks for all the help and advise! I think I'll run a new circuit with the advised wire and then have an electrician friend check it out. Greg-I have a remote already set up so I think I might just hard wire it.
Alan, is EMT a type of conduit?
I forgot to mention it but the clearvue I have is almost a 'collectors' dust collector (if there is such a thing). I purchased it used from Ed who had used it in his personal shop for a couple years. It is the second clearvue ever built according to Ed. And Ed, if your reading, I wanted to thank you again for the tour of the facility and the opportunity to purchase your system! OK, and now I can be embarrassed that's it's taken so long to get it running!

[John Lanciani]

I just posted this on another forum for a similar topic but it bears repeating;

Article 334.15(B) of the 2011 National Electrical Code reads as follows; "Protection from Physical Damage. [NM and NMS] Cable shall be protected from physical damage where necessary by ridgid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, electrical metallic tubing, schedule 80 pvc conduit, or other approved means."

You certainly can, and in some circumstances must, put NM cable (romex) in conduit.

[Alan Trout]

Yes EMT is metal conduit.

Alan

[Alan Trout]

It is a heck of a lot easier to pull THHN stranded wire through conduit than NM cable unless the conduit is very large. And yes you can use Romex in conduit.

Alan

[Rollie Meyers]

NM cable cannot be used in a conduit outdoors as it is allowed for dry location only & any conduit outdoors or underground is considered a wet location by the NEC, THHN is only for dry locations also if used outdoors it must be THWN or dual rated THHN/THWN.

[Jarrett Vibert]

The quote below was copied from: http://www.southwire.com/support/THHNGuideSpecifications.htm

"3.3 USES NOT PERMITTED

3.3.1 Type THHN cable shall not be used in direct burial applications."

No where does it state that it can't be used within a damp location. If you want to assume the interior of PVC conduit is a wet location.

I have pulled, countless conductors without the "wet" rating through PVC installed outdoors and underground. The installation method provides the "dry" enviroment for the conductors. At least that's what every inspector I've dealt with believes anyway.

[Rollie Meyers]

The quote below was copied from: http://www.southwire.com/support/THHNGuideSpecifications.htm

"3.3 USES NOT PERMITTED

3.3.1 Type THHN cable shall not be used in direct burial applications."

No where does it state that it can't be used within a damp location. If you want to assume the interior of PVC conduit is a wet location.

I have pulled, countless conductors without the "wet" rating through PVC installed outdoors and underground. The installation method provides the "dry" enviroment for the conductors. At least that's what every inspector I've dealt with believes anyway.

Your in Canada & the same rules do not always apply when one is subject to the CEC vs the NEC. Here are some definitions from the 2008 NEC:

Location, Damp. Locations protected from weather and
not subject to saturation with water or other liquids but
subject to moderate degrees of moisture. Examples of such
locations include partially protected locations under canopies,
marquees, roofed open porches, and like locations,
and interior locations subject to moderate degrees of moisture,
such as some basements, some barns, and some coldstorage
warehouses.
Location, Dry. A location not normally subject to dampness
or wetness. A location classified as dry may be temporarily
subject to dampness or wetness, as in the case of a
building under construction.
Location, Wet. Installations underground or in concrete
slabs or masonry in direct contact with the earth; in locations
subject to saturation with water or other liquids, such
as vehicle washing areas; and in unprotected locations exposed
to weather.


THHN is for dry location ONLY but most is dual rated THHN / THWN so in most cases that point is moot unless THHN only & that is rare.