Stanley Tote ?

[Bob Warfield]

The tote on my #4 WILL NOT stay tight. I'm afraid if I tighten it any tighter I'm going to break something. Is there anything at all I can try? I really like this old plane as I have spent quite a bit of time and money on it but it's driving me nuts! I'm scared that at some point it's gpong to come apart and hit the floor.
Thank You,
Bob Warfield

[David Christopher]

Bob, one of mine done the same thing. I put a flat washer and a lock washer under the nut on the tote and it stays tight now

[Mel Miller]

Usually you can just shorten the threaded rod a little, there are extra threads on them. This is assuming you're screwing the nut down tight and the handle isn't tight. If it's working loose as you use the plane, maybe the threads are too sloppy to stay tight and you need a new nut & rod.

mel

[Jim Koepke]

There are a few things that can be responsible for a loose tote.

If the rod threads into the base without being loose when it stops it isn't likely the threads in the base. The rod should turn into the base about three or four turns.

It could be that you have a different tote than what originally came with the plane. Stanley used different nuts at different times. Some where longer then others. You may have a replacement nut that is not long enough. You could have a tote that was made for the earlier, longer nut. A washer or two might cure this situation.

Usually the nut is even with the top of the tote. If yours is low, it could indicate this. If it is above the top of the tote, you could have an incorrect post. The post from a #5 is a bit longer.

Sometimes a former user has smoothed the bottom of the tote, making it a bit shorter. A shim of paper or card can help in a situation like this.

Also, over time the tote wood may have moved over time leaving the base out of flat.

There are a lot of possibilities here. If you can isolate the problem or supply pictures if none of the above suggestions fix the problem it might help.

If the rod does not sit tight in the base, then there is another problem and I have a post from the past to help with this problem.

jtk

[john brenton]

Why those rods were so weak and sat so loose is a mystery to me. Maybe it was so that there would be enough play when setting the handle? Who knows. Without the handle on you can crack that rod at the threads with basically no pressure. It's happened to me twice.

To the op, you might have to shave a little off the bottom or shim it. I prefer to shave it..it shouldn't take but a little bit with a block plane to get it to sit right. The good news is that you're not planing end grain, so it's a cinch to shape it.

[Sean Hughto]

Usually when a 4 or 3 has a loose tote, it is because the hole in the underside of the toe that receives the little metal nub cast into the body of the plane has become oversized with age and use. The larger planes have a screw here and thereby avoid this problem. No matter how hard you screw down the main rod, the handle will not stay utterly still in use because of the loose toe area. Fixing the problem is fairly easy in any of a variety of ways that all accomplish reestablishing a hole in the toe that is actually tight to the cast metal nub. Scabbing/inlaying in a new piece of wood (preferably hard wood like maple) on the underside of the toe and making a new hole is the option I would recommend, though various other sorts of fillers (epoxy plumbers putty - put vaseline on the nub and sole to avoid gluing your tote in place) might work too.

[Jim Koepke]

Another thought just came to mind. It could be the wrong post. It should be 20 TPI. The frog screws or the knob post should be the same 20 TPI.

Let us know what you find.

jtk

[Brett Bobo]

Sean,
Thanks for that post on correcting the lateral play in the toe of the tote with the nub wallowing out the mating wood. I posted that question several weeks back and was trying to determine what would be the best method for the filler material, e.g. JB weld, five minute epoxy, etc., while at the same time finding a bondbreaker for the sole and adjacent wood. So, epoxy plumbers putty and vaseline does the trick? Thanks!

[Sean Hughto]

Brett, I've used self harding epoxy clay like substances such as Aves: http://www.avesstudio.com/index.php extensively (in other hobbies of mine - not woodworking), and have found that vaseline and other mold release agents (oils or silicone sprays) work to keep epoxy clays from sticking to other materials or other clay. Plumbers two-part epoxy putty under various brand names is essentially the same stuff, so I assume vaseline would pretty much always work too, but as there are many products out there, I strongly suggest one seek input from the manufacturer or at least do a test before pushing the stuff into your vintage tote.

By the way, as I said, my first choice would be to put in a new wood patch on the underside of the tote to make a new hole in. More work, but not very much.

[Johnny Kleso]

The wood has shrunk over the llast 20 or 100 years.
Stanley mmade several different lenght studs..

Take the handle apart and take off nnut feom stud..

Screw best looking end into base and lightly tighten it with pliers

Add handle and screw on nut lightly if loose you need to grind or file the stud shorter till with a light touch it tightens then file a tad more and keep the nut tight so not to break handle..

I have a few dozen planes apart annd I know there are many lenghts of handles and studs and the depth of thhreads in nuts..

I would not glue anything unless its broke

[george wilson]

Glad someone finally mentioned wood shrinkage!!

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I had a #4 where even after adding a washer (I had to enlarge the hole a bit) it was still loose, and as others mentioned, the "nub" was the source of the looseness. Rather than plugging it with anything, I simply stuffed a small roll of heavy artists paper in there, sort of "wrapping" around the nub twice. It worked quite well - it was originally only going to be a stop-gap fix, but it's been going strong for quite some time now.

[Bob Warfield]

Thanks for all the replies. The threaded rod is very loose in the plane body. I thought about useing red Locktite on it but wasn't sure if that would be acceptable or not. Me and my wife have been down with the flu so I will have to let you know what fixed it later.
Thanks,
Bob Warfield

[Jim Sebring]

I sure would NOT use red Loctite on that hangar unless you never plan to take it off again. That's the permanent type. Blue might be ok, although I've never found even that type to be necessary. Mel and Johnny have suggested shortening the hangar a little bit. That's probably the best way to get everything snug, without destroying any resale value.

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks for all the replies. The threaded rod is very loose in the plane body. I thought about useing red Locktite on it but wasn't sure if that would be acceptable or not. Me and my wife have been down with the flu so I will have to let you know what fixed it later.
Thanks,
Bob Warfield

I would avoid the locktite and try a different solution. Locktite does make a product called Form A Thread. I have not used it.

My use of JB Weld is described in this thread:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?132457-Advanced-Fettling-404&p=1339970

I have used this method to repair a few plane bodies with bad tote threads.

jtk

[David Weaver]

I have had planes with dinked threads in the casting before where the rod was also too long.

In the cases where the threads further up on the rod were a little better, I've cut off the last 1/2th inch or so of the rod and drilled the outside hole on top of the tote a little deeper.

That's not a great fix if you have to go much deeper because there is a point where you may get too much leverage on the top of the tote and break it off if you drill the hole deep, but if the plane is otherwise pooched because the threads are too bad, the next stop for it is in the parts box, so it doesn't hurt to at least break it completely before it goes there.

I have a jointer that I was going to throw away that's on my shelf like that - works fine, and there's enough bite in the fresh threads on the rod that i haven't had any issues.

[Johnny Kleso]

Bob,
Can you say for srue the theads are bad in the body?
If so try to righten the stud into the body by hand and if don't hold check the stud and try the other end of the stud..
If body has bad threds I would try Jim's JB weld fix and if that fails it needs to be brazed or soldered or a new base said to say..