Poor resaw results with Rikon 14" 10-325 bandsaw

[Dewayne Reding]

Let's start by ruling out the saw as the cause of my problems. Just a hunch :) I have avoided using my bandsaw due to poor results. I know I need to put in the time to figure this thing out. I get ridiculous amounts of drift when I resaw. All attempts were kindling when using "multipurpose" blades. I now have a 3/4 resaw blade. I forget the name but I believe it came from Suffolk Machinery on advice from you guys. Definitely a resaw blade. It gave somewhat better results. Well at least I could fix the boards with the planer.

Setup tips specific to my machine would be especially useful.

[Dave Sweeney]

Whenever I've had poor results resawing it usually could be traced back to an improperly tensioned blade or trying to feed the material too quickly.

[Bobby Knourek]

I dont know your particular machine, but drift is caused by lack of tension or too fast of feed for the number of teeth
on the drifting blade.
Increase your tension based on your cut, not the machines blade gauge.
(I assume your giudes are set and controlling your blade from twisting)
Blade twist is sometimes confused with blade drift.

Bobby.

[Van Huskey]

First, let me say I have some strong opinions about drift since I see it misidentified by a LOT of people. Posters often say I have X saw and have never seen drift, likely they don't know what drift is and are mixing it up with twist. Blades drift, saws do not and I have never seen a blade in 20+ years of woodworking that didn't drift. Drift is a TINY inclination to move off straight, often well under 1/64" over a 6-12" cut. You have to LOOK for drift. Twist is when the blade really is running wonky it will run left or right or maybe both like a spider monkey jacked up on Mountain Dew. We are talking 1/16" up to full inches. Twist is likely what you are experiencing and is USUALLY caused by low tension, feed rates that are too fast and/or dull blades. You will also usually get some barrelling in the cut as well. Check the tension and move it up gradually, slow your feedrate and make sure your blade is sharp and you don't have the guides too far up past the gullet and have damaged the blade. You should also check to make sure the side guides are set correctly and not allowing too much twist in the blade. Directly to feedrate many of us started on tablesaws before a bandsaw and fear slowing feedrates since they burn on a table saw, bandsaws are different and you CAN relax. Tall resawing takes practice and don't be afraid to get some 2x4s or 2x6s and do just that. Be aware that the sap in the softwood may toast a blade BUT that costs is small compared to what you learn or compared to screwing up nice hardwood trying and failing to get a good resaw.

[Howard Acheson]

A 3/4" in blade is not the optimum choice for a 14" bandsaw. A blade wider than 1/2" does not get the proper support from the crowned tire. Use a 1/2" resaw blade 3 or 2 TPI skip tooth.

[Mike OMelia]

There are SO many thoughts on this topic. Sounds like you need to identify how much drift is in your current setup. First, change nothing through the process! Get a longish by maybe 2 or 3" wide board (maybe 1/4" thick?) All that really matters is that it is at least as wide (length) as your table. Draw a straight line on the board lengthwise. BTW, the edge of that board facing the fence location needs to be finished straight. Now, freehand saw the board about 1/2 through. Stop. Notice how the board is angled with respect to the table. If there is no drift, no angle. But there probably is drift, and thus a resultant angle. This angle is what it took for you to maintain a cut on that line! (given your setup, it will change if you change anything) Now, take a pencil and along the good edge of that board, trace a line on the table. Line your fence up along this line. Can be a problem if your fence does not tilt (or adjust for drift). But if it does, you are all set. Finish the cut while holding board edge against the fence. It should line up well. If you need an adjustable fence, just clamp a nicely edge wood to your table. You may need to then build a fence (or buy one like the Driftmaster, although it would be too big for a 14" saw, I think).

With a good tall fence along that line, your are ready to resaw... now you just have to decide if you will cut on the fence side or the open side!! Nother subject.

Good luck!

Mike

[David Nelson1]

I totally agree. I had a 3/4 on my Jet 14 inch and the tension was @ its max. Resawing anything over 3 inch really gots wacky. I tried the 1/2 inch blade ( nothing fancy ) 3 TPI and it works so much better also I tightened up the cleareance on the guides. All is good, a couple of swips through the drum sander and all marks are gone and its square.

[Dewayne Reding]

OK, I am starting from the beginning and checking some of the general setup. I am finding obvious issues, but this thing has an incredible amount of adjustability. A few things I have found so far....

1. I have never been able to get any blade to track center on both wheels at the same time. I adjusted the lower trunnion set screws and have the tracking about right after much fiddling. We'll see if it stays.

2. The fence is not square to the table. If appears to be adjustable. My bad, it is way off. I really want to use the fence for resawing if I can, as my hand eye coordination is not great.

3. Regarding the roller bearing guides. I have them correct I believe. I hate them with a passion. They are tedious and every minor adjustment of anything causes them to need reset.

4. The blade is tight. Probably too tight. I'll stay with it that way for now.

Thanks to all for your advice. I will read the posts carefully. I really want to get this right finally. I have some walnut with some sentimental value for a special project and don't have any to waste.

[Neil Brooks]

Dewayne:

Meet Mark.

Mark ? Dewayne.

http://www.amazon.com/New-Complete-Guide-Band-Saw/dp/1565233182

I think the two of you should get acquainted :)

Accurately setting up a band saw is NOT particularly difficult, but you really need to know what to look for, what "right" is, and how to diagnose your problems by the symptoms you're seeing.

Sounds like your wheels may not be co-planar ... to start with.

[Dewayne Reding]

A few other comments. I do have a woodslicer 1/2" blade. I am going to stay with the 3/4 for tonight, because I have an hour or more invested in getting it setup and blade swiths are a pain with the guide setup. Both blades have cut maybe 25 linear feet so they appear to still be sharp. Also, what I am calling drift is anywhere from 1/8 to over a half inch variance, on a board that is six inches tall, clear of knots.

[Van Huskey]

A few other comments. I do have a woodslicer 1/2" blade. I am going to stay with the 3/4 for tonight, because I have an hour or more invested in getting it setup and blade swiths are a pain with the guide setup. Both blades have cut maybe 25 linear feet so they appear to still be sharp. Also, what I am calling drift is anywhere from 1/8 to over a half inch variance, on a board that is six inches tall, clear of knots.

That is definitely twist far too much to be blade drift unless the set of the teeth is ruined on one side. Recheck tension and slow the feed rate and see how it goes.

[Dewayne Reding]

I finally have a good bandsaw. I owe you guys like 800 bucks. :) I cut a 1/16 thick 6 in wide walnut veneer that is pretty much ready for glue. Then I tried to do the same to some 8/4 pin oak. It was ugly. Blade took a sharp turn toward the bottom. Slowed my feedrate way down and made some oak 4/4 that was good with a couple passes across the jointer. I'll buy that bandsaw book.

OK, now that I have at least a clue, what advantages might the 1/2" Woodslicer resaw blade offer over the 3/4 Timberwolf?

[Jim Rimmer]

I finally have a good bandsaw. I owe you guys like 800 bucks. :) I cut a 1/16 thick 6 in wide walnut veneer that is pretty much ready for glue. Then I tried to do the same to some 8/4 pin oak. It was ugly. Blade took a sharp turn toward the bottom. Slowed my feedrate way down and made some oak 4/4 that was good with a couple passes across the jointer. I'll buy that bandsaw book.

OK, now that I have at least a clue, what advantages might the 1/2" Woodslicer resaw blade offer over the 3/4 Timberwolf?
Getting the book is the best thing you can do, Now for my answer to your question (part of which I learned from Mark's book)

The 3/4" blade can't be properly supported on a 14" saw and most likely can't be tensioned properly without possible damage to the tensioning mechanism.

I used a 1/2" Timberwolf blade on my 14" and got similar results to yours - OK but needed planing or drumsander. I switched to the 1/2" Woodslicer and got quieter, smoother cuts that could be cleaned up with a random orbit sander. I also had tracking problems with the TW.

You've got a top notch saw so get the book, study it, try the woodslicer. The more you work with the setup the easier and faster it gets.

Good luck and keeps us posted on your progress,

[Van Huskey]

I can't agree that your steel spined saw can not tension a 3/4" blade properly, this is certainly applicable to the 14" cast Delta and clones. I find the steel spined 14" saws (along with the better 14" cast saws such as the PM141/143) do a fine job with 3/4" blades, provided they aren't unusually thick. For some general info on blades check this thread:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?149862-Lets-talk-bandsaw-blades!&highlight=bandsaw+blade

Note the advantages and disadvantages of the hardened spring steel blades like the Woodslicer, also note the Woodslicer is the most well known AND most expensive of its type, there are cheaper alternatives, up to half the price.

[Dewayne Reding]

I can't agree that your steel spined saw can not tension a 3/4" blade properly, this is certainly applicable to the 14" cast Delta and clones. I find the steel spined 14" saws (along with the better 14" cast saws such as the PM141/143) do a fine job with 3/4" blades, provided they aren't unusually thick. For some general info on blades check this thread:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?149862-Lets-talk-bandsaw-blades!&highlight=bandsaw+blade

Note the advantages and disadvantages of the hardened spring steel blades like the Woodslicer, also note the Woodslicer is the most well known AND most expensive of its type, there are cheaper alternatives, up to half the price.

Van

While it may not be impossible to tension it adequately, Jim certainly isn't far off with his opinion. I am torquing on the tension knob with a lot of force, and it seems to be necessary on my early results. I was concerned the plastic knob might break.

I will try the 1/2 woodslicer I have soon. I have some rough 8/4 oak that I think I will wear out the big blade on while it is installed. The teeth are quite aggressive on the big blade. I am actually quite impressed how smooth a cut it is capable of. In walnut anyway.

[Van Huskey]

Van
I was concerned the plastic knob might break.



We may have coaxed you into too high a tension... I would ask how much the blade deflects when you push it laterally BUT it is so subjective that is is almost worthless unless you have to really push hard to get 1/4" or so of deflection then it is definitely to tight. I setup a 10-325 for a friend of mine with a standard carbon Lenox flexback 3/4" blade (must say not a fan of the guides, though quite frankly there aren't many saws I really like the stock guides on) and I didn't feel it was too much trouble to crank the tension on properly.

Tension is such a feel thing, even if the saw scales were accurate for one thickness of band it wouldn't be for a thicker or thinner band, nor could it be accurate for carbon and bimetal or carbide tipped blades. Unless and until someone brings a tension meter to market designed for the 0-30,000 PSI range it still remains a matter of gut and feel.

[Dewayne Reding]

[QUOTE=Van Huskey;1601329]We may have coaxed you into too high a tension... I would ask how much the blade deflects when you push it laterally BUT it is so subjective that is is almost worthless unless you have to really push hard to get 1/4" or so of deflection then it is definitely to tight. QUOTE]

I seriously think the saw might tip over before the blade deflects 1/4". It is VERY firm at only 1/8" with the upper guide sitting 6" off the table. I am guessing that is too tight so I backed her off a tad and will try some more oak tomorrow. And thanks for posting the blade thread. I think I will order a bimetal 1/2" blade as I think I have enough resawing to wear out the blades I have.

[Van Huskey]

Yep, too tight. Sorry I goaded you into that. Bimetal blades are indeed the most economical for blades you use often if you can find the variety you need since they are not made in near the selection that carbon blades are.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I traded emails before and after I bought my MM-16 with the author of the book to which you were referred. His reply when I asked him about blades was that Timberwolf might be sharper than bi-metal blades but the bi-metal blades outlasted the others by a factor of 5-6 times.. I own only bi-metal blades.

[Dave MacArthur]

When I run into resaw problems with my band saw, my plan is to:
1. re-read my Duginske
2. purchase Van Huskey a ticket to Phoenix, a bottle of scotch and other bribeage
3. set up some sort of SMC outing or other as an excuse to get him to fix my saw.

Don't tell him...

[Lance Norris]

I am torquing on the tension knob with a lot of force, and it seems to be necessary on my early results. I was concerned the plastic knob might break.


You are releasing the tension, with the quick tension release, before changing your tension settings, right? Change your tension, then reset the quick release.