MM24 Mobility

[Jonathan Spool]

I have a MM24 coming. It comes with a mobility kit so why is everyone with Minimax bandsaws installing Zambus? Is there some inherent issue with the mobility kit?

[Van Huskey]

The previous owner of my MM20 did not like the mobility kit and switched to Zambus so I ended up with both. I like the mobility kit fine (that is what I put on it) BUT it depends where the "storage" and work area for your saw is. All I do with the saw now is pull it straight out and move it straight back, the mobility kit is far easier and quicker for that, if you are moving it into a corner with tight clearances around it the machine level casters would be the way to go. Also note the mobility kit requires flat floors, far flater than I would have expected, in moving it around the shop I found some high spots in my concrete and it is a reasonably flat "modern" pour. If I were you I would try out the mobility kit and if it doesn't serve your needs switch, I really like the speed but it does have some limitations that may or may not bother you.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jonathan,

I have a MM-16. There are some folks who don't like the mobility kit because the wheels stop the lower door from opening a full 180º when changing blades. It doesn't bother me.

[Norman Hitt]

I had the MM mobility kit on my MM 20 (which seems to be a standard design used on several Brands of the large European Banmdsaws), and it worked just fine, but it did take extra room to maneuver as compared to other typical shop machine mobility kits. For this reason, when my shop got overcrowded, I put a set of zambus castors on it which works much better in crowded conditions, otherwise, I wouldn't have made the change. If you have trouble opening the bottom door wide enough to make blade changes (using a 1" blade), you can get some longer bolts and a short piece of 1" x 1" square tubing and bore matching holes in it and install it between the BS frame base and the mobility kit wheel bar and that will allow you to open the door far enough without hitting the wheel to make the blade change easily, AND it will also give you a little more clearance over an uneven floor. One of these two options should take care of any problems you might encounter. Congratulations on your new aquisition, It is a really nice saw, Even nicer than Mine.:D

[Jonathan Spool]

Thanks. My saw will be out in open area so maneuverability shouldn't be an issue. I'm kinda confused about the door being blocked as the mobility kit is designed and installed by Minimax???, but I'll wait and see whats up when I get the saw.

[Van Huskey]

Thanks. My saw will be out in open area so maneuverability shouldn't be an issue. I'm kinda confused about the door being blocked as the mobility kit is designed and installed by Minimax???, but I'll wait and see whats up when I get the saw.


If you look at the wheels on the rear of the saw they stand above the bottom of the cabinet, when you open the door it hits the wheel and stops before it opens a full 180 degrees which is can do if equipped with machine leveling casters.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Van nailed it. The wheels stick up a little higher than the bottom of the door. So when you open the door, the wheels restrict how wide you can open the door. I haven't found it to be a problem. I haven't measured the restriction but maybe 15-20º at most. Not enough for me to fret about.

[ian maybury]

A hand cart/manual pallet truck (not sure what the US name is) is another (actually more flexible) option that does lots of other useful stuff as well, especially if you bolt a couple of battens cross-wise under the base to lift the table to whatever level you want. One advantage is that the saw sits rock solid on the battens/base after you move it that way. The disadvantage probably arises if you are a bit tight for space, and need to rotate the saw to get it between positions. (all my machine moves are in straight lines)

I'm sure the Zambus casters are excellent (but haven't seen them), but my radar seems to be picking up a bit of 'you must have these to be cool' hype developing around them too...

Ian

[Steve Costa]

I found the Zambus casters and they appear to be the same ones sold by Woodcraft. I would like a better way to move my MM16 as the the MM mobility kit is a pain. So the question is: Do you build a frame for these casters & set the saw on the frame or do you mount them directly to the saw? My biggest concern is the saw getting 3" off the floor & losing stability. Would appreciate comments on all of the above.

Steve

[Van Huskey]

I found the Zambus casters and they appear to be the same ones sold by Woodcraft. I would like a better way to move my MM16 as the the MM mobility kit is a pain. So the question is: Do you build a frame for these casters & set the saw on the frame or do you mount them directly to the saw? My biggest concern is the saw getting 3" off the floor & losing stability. Would appreciate comments on all of the above.

Steve

They bolt right into the saw. I have lifted my MM20 with a low profile shop jack with no problems then just blocked it with scrap wood to stabilize it as you work on it. You can lift it with the mobility kit, get the jack under the front then go from there, just be slow and careful but it isn't as bad as I expected it to be.

[Philip Johnson]

Just so you have something to look at....that 2 feet of resaw is nice once in a while. I have mine on great lakes casters takes a little effort to move it but not too bad for a 1000 pound machine. I don't find it tippy at all.

176233



Phil

[John Coloccia]

Way back when I was looking at bandsaws and considering a MM, I looked at their mobility kit. It's definitely gotten it's share of mixed reviews...that's actually being a little generous as most who have written about it are not exactly raving. I was planing to put mine on something else if I went with the MM.

[Van Huskey]

Philip brought up a good point... 1003 pounds, most of us responding have either the MM20 @ 765lb or MM16 & 530lb. Thinking about it I am not sure if I would want to move my MM20 with a 240# man sitting on the table with the mobility kit... I think the bottom line is the quality of your floors, if they are smooth and dead flat it probably wont be an issue.

[Steve Costa]

I've looked at the photos of the Zambus casters affixed to the bandsaws but I need some further info on how they are attached. From what I can see they are attached to each corner of the saw, so what type of screws / bolts are folks using? I thought I might be able to use the holes for the leveling pads but it seems this would place the casters to far inboard & reduce stability. Lifting my MM16 is not an issue. Any photos or descriptions of how you did this would be greatly appreciated. Please note that in this instance the sharpest tool in the shed has left the building!!!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Way back when I was looking at bandsaws and considering a MM, I looked at their mobility kit. It's definitely gotten it's share of mixed reviews...that's actually being a little generous as most who have written about it are not exactly raving. I was planing to put mine on something else if I went with the MM.

John....Folks dont' normally whine if they are happy.....People are more likely to post if they are extremely happy or extremely upset with a product. I took time to read the reviews including the "rants" about the wheels and bought a MM-16 anyway. Personally I don't find the wheels on the factory mobility kit to be a major issue when changing blades but that's me.

There are bad experiences with all companies. For example, I'd could have just as well bought an Agazzani from Eagle BUT....they were too busy to talk to me when I called them. They took my number and said they'd call back. I waited several days. Finally I went with Mini-Max. 3 days after I ordered the MM-16 I finally got a call from Eagle tools in LA. Does this mean they are bad company or Agazzani is a bad product? Absolutely not. I caught them at a bad time. That's all it means.

[John Coloccia]

John....Folks dont' normally whine if they are happy.....People are more likely to post if they are extremely happy or extremely upset with a product. I took time to read the reviews including the "rants" about the wheels and bought a MM-16 anyway. Personally I don't find the wheels on the factory mobility kit to be a major issue when changing blades but that's me.

There are bad experiences with all companies. For example, I'd could have just as well bought an Agazzani from Eagle BUT....they were too busy to talk to me when I called them. They took my number and said they'd call back. I waited several days. Finally I went with Mini-Max. 3 days after I ordered the MM-16 I finally got a call from Eagle tools in LA. Does this mean they are bad company or Agazzani is a bad product? Absolutely not. I caught them at a bad time. That's all it means.

Honestly, I feel like this is kind of out of left field, Ken. The OP asked a simple question of why so many people where replacing their mobility kits, and I offered the simple answer that from my research some time ago, it's clear that a lot of people are unhappy with the MM mobility kit. It wasn't just the blade changes either. The whole system just doesn't seem to work well for many. I don't see where anyone has said anything negative about MM as a company, or anyone that's accusing anything of being a bad product, and in fact I was considering a MM and would simply replace the stupid kit with something that worked better.

I appreciate what you're saying, Ken, but for the life of me I don't understand why you're directing it at me.

[Van Huskey]

One thing I would add is that machine leveling casters do have their downside also. While true they do not reduce door movement, will handle rougher floors and are more maneuverable than the mobility kit they are MUCH slower, require one to get down on the floor and do reduce stability however that is VERY subtle. It really is a chocolate vs vanilla kinda thing and the OP will just have to taste the chocolate he was "given" and decide whether to purchase the vanilla that someone else sales.

[Jonathan Spool]

Sam Blasco from MM got back to me on this "issue". He wrote that the issue is mostly that the door on the MM16 is partially blocked by the wheel, but won't be an issue with the MM24. I'll just wait and see.
I use Vega bases on some of my machines, and I believe that they are similar to the MM mobility kit in that one mus "parallel park" the machine where you want it, as the rear wheels do not swivel. From what I've gathered from other sources, this is the big issue for those with smaller shops that move their bandsaw each time they use it, and then put it away. The Zambus allow the machine to be pushed in any horizontal direction. However, I have Great Lakes casters on my current saw, and locking those puppies down is a pita. I'll let you know what I find out with the door on the saw when it gets here!

[Philip Johnson]

Steve the zambus and great lakes casters come or can be ordered with a 12 mm stud that screws right into the leveling pad.

Phil

[Ken Fitzgerald]

John, . my initial statement was in response to you pointing out you considered the mobility issue in your research. So did I. I didn't and still don't find it a bother. My second point was more to the OP. Even with a known good company, on occasion, you can have a bad experience. That's all.

[Steve Costa]

Phil,

Thanks for the info. The Zambus cost 2 + times the GLC casters but I'll contact both companies to get more info. I only want to do this once & I do want to get it right!!
Thanks again for your help.

Steve

[Todd Bin]

I have the zambus casters. My MM24 came with the mobility kit ("free"). It would be fine if you have a lot of room to manuver the machine around. Kinda like parallel parking. Withe the Zambus casters I can spin the machine 360 degrees in the same spot with very little effort. It was easily worth the $140 for the casters since my shop space is somewhat limited.

[David Winer]

I've looked at the photos of the Zambus casters affixed to the bandsaws but I need some further info on how they are attached. From what I can see they are attached to each corner of the saw, so what type of screws / bolts are folks using? I thought I might be able to use the holes for the leveling pads but it seems this would place the casters to far inboard & reduce stability. Lifting my MM16 is not an issue. Any photos or descriptions of how you did this would be greatly appreciated. Please note that in this instance the sharpest tool in the shed has left the building!!!
I've read about Zambus casters in this forum. Finally, convinced by the following quote, "For some things in life there should be no doubt . . . Putting Zambus casters on your MM bandsaw is one such example!! I put a set of Zambus AC-300S casters on my MM20, the same set you would use on the MM16. The provided threaded bolt is the same metric size as the threaded hole on the base of the bandsaw. Install took about 20 minutes for all four casters" I ordered a set of four this week to install in my MM16. So far I am pleased with these heavy duty gadgets, but am in the process of installing them. Not so easy for me as quoted. I will need to enlist help to tilt the saw and insert the casters. But to answer some of the questions about how they are to be fitted I took a couple of photos to show here. In getting ready I came across a black plastic box that came with my MM16. Only now do I realize what the threaded inserts and tool are for. You may already have these too, and if so would only need the AC-300 without the S.
Another interesting thing is how to order. The Zambus website is not set up like so many vendors' sites these days to allow you to place an order. I found an order blank which needed a phone call to a human being actually to order and pay by check or credit card. A polite conversation, and two days later the casters arrived at my front door.


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[Van Huskey]

David, do you have an "automotive" floor jack? If so I will post the process for doing the install by yourself OR with a small amount of non-lifting help like from a wife.

[David Winer]

David, do you have an "automotive" floor jack? If so I will post the process for doing the install by yourself OR with a small amount of non-lifting help like from a wife.
I do have a car jack and a wife. Any experienced-based advice would be appreciated. Fortunately I have a strong next door neighbor too, but perhaps I won't have to ask him to help. Thanks.

[Van Huskey]

This is the process I used on my MM20 with NO help but you may want a stabilizing 3rd hand if you don't like adventure as much as I do.

This is using a floor jack (one that rolls around like Nascar jacks)

1. Use the Johnson bar of the mobility kit to lift the front of the bandsaw, hold it up with one hand and roll the jack under the front.

2. Slowly let the Johnson bar down and make sure the bandsaw is balanced on the jack before completely letting go.

3. Lift the front with the jack slowly, when you have it high enough to work under place scrap wood (2x4s etc) under the saw like jack stands to support the weight if the jack fails, like jack stands.

4. Put the casters on the front.

5. Raise the front with the jack just enough to get the "jack stands" out.

6. Here is the only tricky part... place a single 2x4 on the floor under the bandsaw, wide part of the board, on the floor from front to back (perpendicular to the wheels). Place the board closer to the spine than the jack by about a board width. The board is now the fulcrum of a big ole bandsaw teeter totter. Slowly let the jack down, the bandsaw should remain up in the air at the "jack end" even with the fulcrum back because the center of gravity is closer to the spine of the saw (if it tries to lift the spine end off the floor just lift and move the board back toward the jack. Now for the leap of faith... move the jack to the opposite side (spine side) and now slowly push on the spine and the bandsaw should gently rock forward. If doing this alone you may have to move back to the brake side of the saw and relift and reset the 2x4 so that it stays forward when rocked over, with two people even if the balance is still a little to the rear one can hold it while another gets the jack under the back edge.

7. One the jack is under the spine side of the saw, lift it, block it, put the casters on, crank them all the way down for jack clearance and lower the jack and remove it.

8. IF you jack is too high to get from under the casters don't worry! If that is the case, relift the jack, put the fulcrum board back in lower the jack rock the saw again so the brake side is now high, put the jack under it and lift it up. The key here is to have the jack body angled enough so when you lower the jack you can still get the Johnson bar into the brake to lift it off the jack. If this is the case you may want to have another set of strong hands to steady the saw as you may need to make this last lift a little off center to get the Johnson bar in.

9. Respect the weight but don't be scared of it. I went in scared to death but the more I moved the saw around the more I realized if you take your time it doesn't do anything crazy, it is top heavy no doubt but there is still a LOT of weight at the bottom. With two people this method would be a breeze.

10. I also thought of another way to get the jack under it without being off center with the jack but it takes two people more than likely. When you lift it with the Johnson bar just put two scraps under it out near the casters lower it and then slide the jack under.

[David Winer]

This is the process I used on my MM20 with NO help but you may want a stabilizing 3rd hand if you don't like adventure as much as I do.

This is using a floor jack (one that rolls around like Nascar jacks) ...

Thanks,Van. I will copy your instructions to a Word file and have the printed copy at the ready as I proceed. Sounds like a plan.

[Rick Fisher]

Van's post reminded me of myself trying to get my little 15" General open ended wide belt onto a conventional base ... at 1:00 am .. alone in the garage..

Sigh..

It fell against me.. the motor hit the drywall (luck) .. essentially trapping me against the wall.. After the panic passed, I realized I was unhurt (bruised the next day) and only had a hole in the drywall, but was hopelessly stuck in the corner.. with a 500+ lb machine .. kinda on me.. ( I was sorta sitting now)

I squatted there for a few minutes when suddenly my wife arrived, half asleep.. saying I woke the dog.. Funny how they cannot just help.. without lecturing you on patience and safety..

Anyway.. I have an old 24" SCM/ Centauro.. same manufacturer as the MM-24, but not as heavy as the new one. Having said that .. I am now too chicken to do it without at least a spotter to call 911 if things go wrong. :)

[Van Huskey]

I must say I entered the endeavor with significant trepidation but took it slow, thought out each move carefully, kept my body out of the way of the likely falling path of the 750# behemoth AND never once was afraid to say "I give" and leave it sitting partially done until I could muster help. I had also spent most of the day with 4 extra sets of hands wrestling it and an equally heavy Woodmaster 38" drum sander around and had gotten a good feel for the weight and balance of the bandsaw. I would however have to give a second thought to doing the same thing with the extra 250# of the MM24 but feel comfortable recommending doing the same with a MM16 which is 220# lighter than my MM20 and not quite as tall.

Anyone using my method above take your time and think through every movement I tried to be clear and complete BUT common sense should rule the day!

[Rye Crane]

Gentlemen,

I faced the "wheel in the way problem" when I first confronted the saw blade change. Geez guys, all that is needed is to pull the keeper pin, pull the wheel
off, change the band and replace wheel when finished. The biggest problem I had with my MM24 was the damn door kept wanting to close so I found a shim/wedge
and fixed that until I could find one of my elastic cords with the hook on them, forgot the name but it works fine to hold the door open. Now the saw is on Zambus casters and it's no longer got wheels on the rear so problem solved, except for the door. My floor is a little off I guess, maybe I'm a half a bubble off also, my wife
will agree I think.

Rye Crane
Pittsburg, Ca.

[Joe Jensen]

The mobility kit would be fine for me if my floor were perfectly level. I had to shim one wheel to keep the saw from rocking where I use it. With the leveling casters (I use Zambus), I can quickly stablize the saw..joe

[John W Johnson]

I've read threads here for the past week trying to add to my own observations. I'm about to take the bigger bandsaw plunge, trying to decide between a MM-24 and the Agazzani B-24, with the re-saw height being my last remaining question. I had just about decided on the Minimax until I got to this thread. My shop has a ceiling height that varies from 95" on one end to 96.5" at the other. I'd planned to remove a drywall section between the joists to erect the saw from it's spine to it's feet, but after setup, I'll need to move the saw on a fairly regular basis. (Someone thinks she should be able to park her car in a garage.) The saw will have to be moved at an angle, and turn a corner to avoid garage door tracks. The concrete is smooth for the most part, but definitely has some rough spots.

The MM-24 specs say this saw is 94" tall. 94 + 3 > 96.5. Are there any other options for mobility around a small shop? I've got a set of low casters on a tubular steel frame on my 14" Jet, and I've home made platforms for a jointer and bench top planer, but we're talking 600-700 more pounds for the MM24. Maybe I should look harder at the MM-20, or the Ag 24/24, in addition to the Agazzani 24.

[ian maybury]

I'm a fan of a pallet jack/truck versus mobility kits as while unless you get a special (see bottom link below) they are not as tight turning as castors they are so much more generally useful about the workshop. I use a low profile one to shift all my machines (Hammer + Agazzani 24)

A low profile model (and there's possibly variations in the heights of the lower models available) should get below 2in fork height fully lowered. http://www.vestilmfg.com/products/mhequip/pt-lowprofile.htm

Failing that it might be worth talking to a few companies doing machine/equipment moving skates/sleds/roller dollies - a low profile roller or speciality pallet jack sounds like a decent shot at solving your problem. e.g. http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200356890_200356890 or better still http://moveheavystuff.com/rotating-caster-dollies/

ian

[Van Huskey]

I've read threads here for the past week trying to add to my own observations. I'm about to take the bigger bandsaw plunge, trying to decide between a MM-24 and the Agazzani B-24, with the re-saw height being my last remaining question. I had just about decided on the Minimax until I got to this thread. My shop has a ceiling height that varies from 95" on one end to 96.5" at the other. I'd planned to remove a drywall section between the joists to erect the saw from it's spine to it's feet, but after setup, I'll need to move the saw on a fairly regular basis. (Someone thinks she should be able to park her car in a garage.) The saw will have to be moved at an angle, and turn a corner to avoid garage door tracks. The concrete is smooth for the most part, but definitely has some rough spots.

The MM-24 specs say this saw is 94" tall. 94 + 3 > 96.5. Are there any other options for mobility around a small shop? I've got a set of low casters on a tubular steel frame on my 14" Jet, and I've home made platforms for a jointer and bench top planer, but we're talking 600-700 more pounds for the MM24. Maybe I should look harder at the MM-20, or the Ag 24/24, in addition to the Agazzani 24.

A couple of things. First, I don't know if I would cut it that close to the ceiling if I had to move the saw a lot. Second, make sure you have room to raise the guides completly where it will sit for use, the top of the guide bar pops out of the top of the saw and I do NOT think the extended height is used in the specs. Third, the concrete does have to be pretty smooth and level to move a MM with the mobility kit and even a modern hand finished pour may not be flat enough, there are a couple of areas where I can't move my saw and it is on a floor that visually seems flat. Fourth, the mobility kit leans the saw back and raises the front end of the saw to move it, I can measure the increase on my MM20 if need be but dunno how much the MM24 would vary but either is more than the 1" extra you have in some areas.

In the end you really need to thing this out carefully and my seat of the pants view indicates unless it sits in one place with a cutout in the drywall for the guide bar when fully up this may cause you a lot of pain in the future...

[David Kumm]

I would not cut it that close either. Look at a MM20 or older 24 with less resaw height or even a new MM28. I resaw more than 14" about once a year and although you may fit it in a spot anything on the ceiling will get banged when you move it. Dave

[John W Johnson]

A couple of things. First, I don't know if I would cut it that close to the ceiling if I had to move the saw a lot. Second, make sure you have room to raise the guides completly where it will sit for use, the top of the guide bar pops out of the top of the saw and I do NOT think the extended height is used in the specs. Third, the concrete does have to be pretty smooth and level to move a MM with the mobility kit and even a modern hand finished pour may not be flat enough, there are a couple of areas where I can't move my saw and it is on a floor that visually seems flat. Fourth, the mobility kit leans the saw back and raises the front end of the saw to move it, I can measure the increase on my MM20 if need be but dunno how much the MM24 would vary but either is more than the 1" extra you have in some areas.

In the end you really need to thing this out carefully and my seat of the pants view indicates unless it sits in one place with a cutout in the drywall for the guide bar when fully up this may cause you a lot of pain in the future...

Thanks, that is good advice. I had no clue about that guide extension until this morning. I called Same Blasco before lunch to ask about the ceiling height and the mobility kit. He said the 94" was fully extended, and the height was 91" otherwise. Even at 91" the idea of tipping the saw on rollers in close side and ceiling quarters is a bad idea I think. And it will have to be moved every time I use it. I think if I'm going to get the MM-24, I should use the Zambus casters or something similar. Do you know if a 3" caster will raise the tool a full 3" or can you steal a little height in the area below the base? Will a 3" caster raise the saw a full 3" or something like 2" or maybe less?

You gave me an idea on the drywall cutout. I'd planned to replace it and re-mud, along with a new coat of paint, but I know I can sell an access door on the basis of someday moving the saw out. And it would be a heck of a lot easier. If I bought the 24" and ever needed an extra inch or foot for that matter, I could just remove four screws holding the access panel. Heck, thinking ahead, I already made some molding to replace an attic stair set.

I'll probably get the Agazzani or maybe the 20" MM just to be safe. Now the buts, I'll only be in this shop for another couple of years. Then I'll be back to my real shop and there height is not a problem. I've only had need for a 12"+ resaw once in the 15 years I've had a 14" Jet bandsaw, and that was a fluke. In the end my Woodcraft store knew a guy with a woodmizer. He cut up a hunk of 22" wide by 6" thick by 6' long pine into Windsor chair seats. He butchered that job. I should have gotten nine seat blanks and ended up with seven. (Are two full sized Windsor seat blanks worth $700-800? :)) I have a good bit of reclaimed 2 3/4" x 13" heart pine, and a half dozen boards that are in the 16-18" range. I also am looking at buying some walnut and mahogany, including some very wide boards up to 30" from a local guy who claims he's too old to work it anymore. Now if I buy the saw I ain't got the cash for the wood, the old gentleman hasn't given me a price, and he sure has not let it go yet, but that is a consideration.

My bucket list of things to build include a couple of pieces where a 20"+ resaw would be nice, but it's not a deal killer, nor is any of the above. I do not have my table saw in my present shop and have no place to put one. I want to use this new bandsaw to rip in addition to resawing so I want extra width with either 24" saw. My plan is to put a 1" carbide blade on the new saw, and mostly leave it there. I'll get a couple smaller blades for it, but I plan to do most of my curve cutting on the Jet.