Need help choosing a sander. Oscillating, dual drum, or small wide belt.

[Stephen Byrd]

Hi guys,

I was hoping you could give me a little advice. I'm putting my woodshop together and I need help with sander selection.

I am a general contractor and hobbyist woodworker that is looking to mainly make kitchen cabinets.

My primary goal in selecting a sander is to minimize my time spent on any given project to maximize revenue.

I currently am considering 3 very different options:

1. The jet 22/44 oscillating head sander.

2. A 24-26" dual drum sander.

3. The grizzly 15" open end wide belt sander.

Will the dual drum or the Jet give me a sufficiently smooth enough finish without a paper change that I will not have to spend too much time with the ROS. Or should I go with the small wide belt and go with a less than a minute paper change but 2 passes?

Btw, the I would love to get a larger wide belt but I am limited to single phase electric and until I am generating sufficient revenue I can not justify the expense.

Thanks in advance for your help in this matter,
Steve

[Joe Cowan]

I have the Delta open end drum sander. I use 120 grit paper. The biggest issue, for me, is the vertical scratch lines that show up in the finish. I have to drop down to 100 grit with my ROS to get those scratches out and work my way up. It is best used to flatten glue up panels. I think the oscillating sander would work better for me, but not going to change now.

[richard poitras]

[QUOTE=Stephen Byrd;1599295]Hi guys,


I am a general contractor and hobbyist woodworker that is looking to mainly make kitchen cabinets.

My primary goal in selecting a sander is to minimize my time spent on any given project to maximize revenue.



Steve if you are mainly looking at making kitchen cabinets I would look into getting a 36’’ wide sander. I used to work at a mill shop were we made custom kitchen cabinets and by having 36’’ you can send the entire face frame of the cabinet thru the sander. It’s the way to go if you can afford it. Wide belts are the big dogs in the bunch and are the most costly. If cost is a factor look into a larger drum sander like the American made WoodMaster.

Richard

[Stephen Byrd]

A 36" wide belt would be awesome, but it would also set me back $10-$15K used. I do not have that kind of funding available at this point nor the shop size or electrical capacity. I could swing a 37" dual drum, but I am a bit concerned about the issue that Joe brings up. I do not want to have to spend my time or pay my guys to work up from 100 grit on the ROS after I just ran something through a sander.

I know that the Jet oscillating would minimalize these, but would I need to ROS my way through multiple grits to get a stain grade finish or do a paper change which I understand is very time consuming and finish sand with the ROS.

The Grizzly 15" wide belt has an oscillating feed belt, but I have heard rumors that you can get a snake like scratch pattern with wide belts too. I am also concerned about having a 15/30" capacity limit with the grizzly, or should that be sufficient for my current needs.

[James Boster]

Lots of options and opinions on this subject. I had a 24" drum sander (non oscillating) and did not like it. I now have an open sided Powermatic wide belt. Head and shoulders above the drums in my opinion. Others have drums and love them and they do work but are slower. When I do cabinets I run all of my stock through the wide belt before I build my faceframes and then use a ROS to finish them up. The open sided sanders do give a "snake trail" if you double pass. Some have adjusted theirs to not do this but I have not. Agreed the 37" is the best way to go but I like you had space and power restraints. All in all I am happy with the 15" wide belt.

[Carroll Courtney]

I have a Griz duel drum sander and have it set up w/80gr on the first drum and 120gr on the sec.drum.I run doors and face frames through it,but I still have to do alittle hand sanding.I think that the open end belt sander is a better way to go w/the proper grit,but again I think that hand sanding will be needed as well.I really don't know about the new osc drum sanders which might eliminate hand sanding----Carroll

[John Morrison60]

Steven

+1 on a WoodMaster drum, first rate quality, solid operation, American Made.
Can be found on Craigs List often.

A workhorse.

John

[Stephen Byrd]

I don't have any delusions that I will not have to do a little ROS hand sanding. I just want to minimize the amount of time I spend making multiple passes, changing paper, and getting the smoothest possible automated sanding.

[Eiji Fuller]

What about the new Laguna wide belts? They look pretty good and have a very tempting price point.

[Stephen Byrd]

The 30" wide belt from laguna would be perfect for most everything I need, the $5,500 price tag though is a little out of my reach at this point until this venture starts generating substantial revenue.

The 18" wide belt they have looks to be the sister to the Shop Fox 18". Unfortunately they both seem to not have a platen for finer finish sanding. From what I read the platen makes all the difference.

[Rick Fisher]

I noticed the 30" Laguna has a 5hp motor.. Does it have a platen ? 5hp is very low for a 30" sander.

[Rick Lizek]

40 years in commercial shops and problem solving. Stroke sander would be my first choice.

[Chip Lindley]

My first choice (for you) would be the Woodmaster 2575. Built like a Tank! Leeson TEFC 5hp motor; variable speed conveyor motor. Velcro-covered drum; good dust collection! Less than 2K, used. You will be glad you did!

[Rick Fisher]

I was just running 2x10 Sapelli through my wide belt, watching he Amp meter..

With the platen fully engaged.. and a 150 belt, removing 1/4 mm ... the ammeter seemed to jump to 16-17 amps .. 220V PH3.
This is not scientific.. lol.

In single phase.. If I am right.. 16 amps x 1.8 = 28 amps.. (approx) ..

A good quality 5hp motor draws 23 ? amps, a 7.5hp would draw about 31 amps ?

I bet if I completely disengaged the platten, and installed a 100 grit belt, the amperage drawn on my machine would drop considerably..

Anyway.. before I bought that laguna, I would want to know if it has a platen.. A wide belt with no platen is an oscillating drum sander that uses expensive paper.. lol.

Nothing against drum sanders.

$6000 for that laguna wide belt is cheap.. but I question it having a 5hp motor.. Nothing uses power like a wide belt sander.. They just hog electricity.. so I wonder how a 30" wide sander can be effective with 5hp ?

A drum sander however, or wide belt with no platen could probably operate just fine.. I would not however pay $6000 for a 30" wide belt without a platen.. I would buy the used woodmaster suggested by others..

[Karl Brogger]

Steve- the market for used tools is crap right now. Used widebelts can be had for some pretty low prices. I've got the Speedsander imported by Timesavers, its a total piece of crap and goes down on a regular basis, but it was cheap ($4500 used), and a lot of the parts are off the shelf stuff. A spring in mine broke the other day, I found a replacement at Ace Hardware. Even though I hate it, and it has its issues I've made a ton of money with it and it has been a good stepping stone to a better machine.

[Alan Heffernan]

Karl has it right on the used tool market. A friend who is in the millworks business has loaded up on good used tools. He is buying them from all over the US for some unbelievable prices. You might be surprised what you could come up with for a used one at the moment.

[Mike OMelia]

One solution to the grit lines of a drum sander is to use a higher grit paper for some final passes. It's not ideal, but does minimize the amount of ROS sanding.

Mike

[Paul Johnstone]

. I could swing a 37" dual drum, but I am a bit concerned about the issue that Joe brings up. I do not want to have to spend my time or pay my guys to work up from 100 grit on the ROS after I just ran something through a sander.
.

Stephen, I have the SuperMax 37" dual drum, and I am very pleased with it.
First drum I put 150, second drum 220. I don't have to do any ROS finishing.
The key is to remember that this is finish sanding.. take tiny bites.. like maybe 1/16 or 1/32 of a turn of the adjusting wheel.
On the first pass, turn the sander so you just barely hear the paper making contact.
Run the wood through twice.. listen to the sander, with experience you will learn if you have to run it through a third time (because the first pass was too aggressive).

I get great results on maple and oak.. If the board is flat going in, maybe 3-4 passes on each side and I'm done.
Huge time saver.

I think people get those "lines" because they try to sand too much a time. If you see lines, run the board through again at the same height setting.
(Obviously, I am assuming the paper is still good and you are running at the appropriate feed rate).

Oh, and Supermax is also made in the Usa, if that matters.

[J.R. Rutter]

I used to have an Extrema 7-1/2 HP 1PH 36" dual drum sander. We ran it with 120 / 180 and stepped back to 150 to ROS. When I finally could justify a wide belt, I sold it to a contractor who was doing the same thing that you are.

Used industrial equipment is cheap right now, but most of it is 3 phase with large motors. I did see the same Extrema sander that I had for sale used for $2000 on Woodweb. The Woodmaster with Velcro abrasives seems like a good bet as well. If you can swing it, a double drum is definitely nice if you take the time to dial it in so that head #2 is just barely removing the scratches from head #1. This setting can vary between grits and abrasive brands, so it makes sense to standardize.