Help needed with threading wooden dowels.

[Steve LaFara]

I'm getting everything together for a new bench and want to make some wooden screws for a face vise and such, but don't have a lathe large enough to make the dowels myself. Yes, I could buy some on line but would rather make my own as needed. Question is whether or not I can be sucessfull at this with only beveling off the edges of the raw stock to a "close" to round shape? I thought I had seen someone post in the past that this worked OK but would like to be sure before ordering the die box and taps.

I have a band saw or hand planes that could get the stock close to the right size.

Thanks for any input that you may be able to share.

[steven c newman]

Go to pbs.org, and lok up Roy Underhill's Woodwright's shop shows. Go to the one that is about wooden screw-boxes. Roy shows HOW to make a wood thread cutter, from just some oak, and an old file. As for making a dowel from (almost) square stock, get a steel plate (about 1/4" thick) and drill a series hole holes through it. Start with a hole that just clips the corners, and drive the stock through the hole. Go to the next smaller hole and repeat, and so on until the stock is nice and round. This way, you can save enough money to buy the die,($$$!)

[Stephen Podhajecki]

Roy Underhill also has plans for a rounder plane (http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/howto/images/e2104Rounderplane.pdf). I'm guessing that one could make a good size dowel by changing the dimensions. What diameter screw are you intending to make?

Edit:
I found this youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/user/noho91#p/u/12/cLa-mOnB-qs) of a guy using a bandsaw to create dowels.

[Steve LaFara]

I'm planning on making 1 1/2" for the leg vise screw and maybe a twin screw vise plus some 3/4" for a variety of things.

I watched the Roy Underhill video and although it was cool, I will probably just go with the sets from Highland WW.

[Jamie Buxton]

If you're willing to deal with a router, Beall's wood-threading kit does a fine job. It provides a tap for threading a nut, and a jig for cutting precise, unchipped, threads on a dowel.

[Sean Hughto]

In Aldren Watson's Handtools Their Ways and Workings, he shows how to do this by beveling, and then using a file in IIRC what he calls the "round and round" method. In short, it can be done, but it may take some time and patience, especially to make dowels long enough for vise screws. Don't you have a friend with a lathe?

[Don Orr]

I've heard that thinning a little BLO with mineral spirits and applying it to the dowel while cutting the threads can help things go smoother. Haven't tried it myself but it comes from a reliable source.

[Steve LaFara]

Don't you have a friend with a lathe?

Unfortunatly no. I obviously need to work on my social skills!:)

[John Toigo]

I think you could make the round stock for the screws fairly quickly with a draw knife and/or spokeshave. It would take a bit of patience and maybe a practice block or two. I watched Roy's video. Unfortunately he used a puchased tap to make the threads in the nuts. That's the tricky part. Once you have the thread the rest is pretty simple.

[george wilson]

Oiling the dowel will help cut better threads,but I would recommend mineral oil. Linseed will dry,and might gum up the threads or the thread box,so I wouldn't get linseed in it. We used to oil the threads when I was toolmaker. among other things,we remade the vise screws for all the wooden vises in Wmsbg.,as well as making some tools with wooden threaded parts.

My favorite way to cut the male threads was in a metal lathe with a router mounted on the toolpost at 45º. it insured perfect,never chipped threads every time.

This embroidery frame I reproduced from violet wood has threads cut with the router method. they needed to be perfect,and violet wood is very hard and brittle. The discs are lignum vitae. I made a special wood thread tap to thread them. This was a special order from my chief client. She had the original,but didn't want to use it due to it being in delicate condition.

The screws are only about 3/8" in diameter,and the base is about 14" long. fittings are ivory,pre ban. Actually,the ivory parts are threaded too,and the columns are threaded into wooden nuts beneath the base,so the whole stand could be taken apart for travel. Even the feet threaded onto the square topped ivory screws in the base.This project was considerable trouble to make due to all the threads,danger of chipping,etc.. Ivory has to be threaded VERY carefully with very light cuts and very sharp tools.

The ivory parts have been aged with soot in a solution to make them look just like the originals,which hadn't a trace of yellowing in them. Probably because they were made from Indian ivory,which stays white(unless my memory is off:))

[Johnny Kleso]

I would buy some threaded steel acme rod and a nut from ENCO and double pin a piece of hard wood for a head with the handle hole and mortice out a block of wood to hold the nut... Cost about $30 and will never break..

Thats for a vise for what George made is another story :)

[Jerome Hanby]

If you're willing to deal with a router, Beall's wood-threading kit does a fine job. It provides a tap for threading a nut, and a jig for cutting precise, unchipped, threads on a dowel.

Anyone ever build their own version of the Beall threader to handle something larger that 1.5"?

[Jerome Hanby]

I'm planning on making 1 1/2" for the leg vise screw and maybe a twin screw vise plus some 3/4" for a variety of things

You can buy off the shelf wood threading kits for those diameters. Beall sells dowel stock that's exactly the specified diameter for use in threading. I bought several 3' sticks of hard maple in 1.5" diameter to try out...

[Jerome Hanby]

I think you could make the round stock for the screws fairly quickly with a draw knife and/or spokeshave. It would take a bit of patience and maybe a practice block or two. I watched Roy's video. Unfortunately he used a puchased tap to make the threads in the nuts. That's the tricky part. Once you have the thread the rest is pretty simple.

He has another bit where he also builds a tap. It's in one of his books and I assumed there was a show that showed the same technique, but the one I think has the segment, I've never been able to find for download (7905? can't recall exactly)...

[Bob Glenn]

As far as not having a lathe to turn the dowel, I recall reading somewhere, you can make a dowel on a table saw. I think it has to do with turning the stock above the blade. I've never seen it or done it, but it doesn't sound real safe to me. Maybe someone here can enlighten us on this. Good luck.

[Joe O'Leary]

Steve, where are you located? Maybe someone on the forum knows a lathe owner. Piece of cake on a lathe.

[Jerome Hanby]

Steve, where are you located? Maybe someone on the forum knows a lathe owner. Piece of cake on a lathe.

Is this thread chasing on the lathe? I've seen a few videos and it looked like it required skill. If there was some gadget that worked with the lathe that would rock...

[Joe O'Leary]

Jerome, I was referring to turning the blanks down to proper size.

[Sean Hughto]

I should have mentioned this option too: ROUNDING PLANES -

You can fairly easily make your own or -

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=MS-IROUND.XX&Category_Code=&Search=rounding
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=99.017.10&dept_id=13621

[Jerome Hanby]

Jerome, I was referring to turning the blanks down to proper size.
Thanks for the clarification. I can even manage that operation :D

[Pam Niedermayer]

Is this thread chasing on the lathe? I've seen a few videos and it looked like it required skill. If there was some gadget that worked with the lathe that would rock...

There are, they have teeth on one side that are pitched to cut the threads.

Pam

[george wilson]

I have never seen threading combs that had the exceedingly coarse pitch of a vise screw. they are for much finer threads. I have a bunch. My coarsest one is 13 threads per inch. In its case,it is really for cleaning up threads already cut on a metal lathe anyway. they used to use threading combs to thread ivory,which was about 22 threads per inch(if I recall) pretty uniformly in India and China.

It does require skill to use them: you have to practice moving the tool sideways at exactly the right speed to make the threads mesh. Makers of Tunbridge ware boxes with screwed on lids sometimes got their wives to hand turn the lathe while they cut the threads with a SINGLE point threading tool!! It wasn't really pointed,though,being shaped like a V chisel,bent on edge with sharp cutting edges in that case.

[Bob Strawn]

I should have mentioned this option too: ROUNDING PLANES -

You can fairly easily make your own or -

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=MS-IROUND.XX&Category_Code=&Search=rounding
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=99.017.10&dept_id=13621

While you might not need the smoothest dowel to make into a thread, a rough dowel will feed less smoothly and may ruin your efforts. A splintery finish can lead to even larger splinters.

While the dowel maker shown looks a bit different, I have a set of dowel planes that I got from Japan Woodworker. They pretty much mangle wood no matter how sharp you make them. I can do much better, much faster with a lathe. The blade shown and the configuration of the dowel maker looks to me like it is going to chatter.

The dowel makers from Tools For Working Wood I would suspect as being quite a bit better as Joel, the proprietor, is highly allergic to poorly made tools.

I initially made a few rounding planes, and decided to get some to copy as I clearly had the angles wrong. The purchased rounding planes where worse than my worst attempt.

Then I got a Veritas Dowel Maker (http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=42331&cat=1,180,42288), it is pretty sweet once you adjust it correctly. Some sanding will probably still be needed to clean up the rough spots.

If I had it to do over again, I would probably go with this one (http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=52401&cat=1,180,42288,52401), the Veritas Dowel and Tennon cutter, as it would be cheaper, or make one with a similar profile if I needed other sizes. Speaking of sizes, most of the size options, on the Veritas Dowel Maker, I have never used. Consider the dowel sizes you actually use, and base your Purchasing and making decisions on that. The curved blade will make adjustment less tricky and allow for a decent initial feed size while allowing a finer shaving to be removed at the last bit of the process. Buying a replacement curved blade from Lee Valley for $5.50 to make a specific size seems like a pretty good idea although it will probably not be big enough for use in a larger dowel maker.

The problem that you run into when making a doweling plane is going from square to round. This needs a blade angle that will cut the top of the unrounded corners and taper to the central size of the dowel. This angle will be too steep to leave a nice finish unless unless the blade is very long, or long and curved. You can take down the points first with a plane, but this adds another step to the process.

When you are turning a dowel, at least twice a rotation you are facing a bad grain angle. Ideally the blade is skewed, the angle is very low or very high, the feed is slow, shaving is thin and the blade is stable. If the blade is not sharp, and your shaving thin, you are going to get a splintery finish.

When turning a smooth dowel on a lathe, my final cuts are so low angled that the bevel on the blade is burnishing the just cut surface. To duplicate this, the blade edge needs to almost lay on top of the dowel instead of pointing in towards the center of the dowel.

The horrible pictures below show one of the dowel makers that I made. It leaves a very splintery finish as the angle is not low enough. Great for gluing, horrid for anything else.

176411176413

Three matching dowel makers like the one above only with better angles, would probably do a pretty nice job. One to get close to size, one to make a fairly nice rough dowel and one to scrape the dowel smooth.

Bob