Trouble Performax Sand Paper

[John Grabowski]

First of all....Major tool Gloat...I got the Performax 10-20 off of craigslist last week for 300 with some sandpaper. No picture available at this time :)

My problem is that I was running some Cherry through it last night and I saw a red burn through the middle of a piece of that was run through there. I took off the paper and this is what I found.

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x389/Grub32/sandpaper.jpg

Anybody know what may have caused this?? Is it glue or something? I am new to the world of drum sanders and I am a bit frustrated.

Thanks in advance,

John G

[keith micinski]

It may have been old paper. If it was from hitting something in the wood I would think that the stripe of missing paper would be all the way around. I would guess this is an isolated incident.

[Mark Levitski]

John, are you using dust collection? These sanders will not perform real well w/o it. Does the mark go all the way around the drum? Was the cherry raw wood or did it have some glue or finish on it in places? Do you use an abrasive belt cleaner/eraser? Those help. All in all, although these kind of things can be avoided, they sort of come with the territory with drum sanders as well as all sandpaper in general.

Mark

[John Grabowski]

Thanks guys...it was new paper...I am pretty sure that there wasn't anything on the boards bc I had just sanded with 150 and then switched to 220 and this is when that appeared. It is possible that something got stuck to the wood and then moved onto the belt. I am using a duct collector and it seems to work quite well. I appreciate all the information and I will keep on trying to work it out. Also, Mark the mark only went about 3 inches around the drum if that gives off any more clues.

I appreciate it,

John G

[Jim McFarland]

I've had this happen when I try to take off a bit too much material in one pass. I start the board through with the drum well above the surface and lower until is just touches. No more than 1/4 turn (1/64" IIRC) from then on using 100g paper on a Performax 16-32. With bloodwood I usually can't go more than 1/8 turn w/o burning. Haven't tried anything more exotic/oily than bloodwood (usually walnut, cherry, maple, QSWO & mahogany).

[Robert Chapman]

I agree with Jim. Had this happen once and I think I took to heavy a pass. I use the 1/4 turn max rule also.

[Mark Levitski]

Ditto on light passes, espcially if you're moving up into the higher grit ranges like you were.

[david brum]

Don't dispair about the sandpaper. Some woods are more prone to burning than others. I recently did a project using walnut which burned like crazy. Light cuts are definitely a necessity with hardwoods. You can save your sandpaper after it has been gunked up with burned resin. I spray burned marks with simple green and leave the sandpaper in the sink for an hour or so. The resin will then come off with a toothbrush or similar.

[Carroll Courtney]

Like Keith said may be old paper that has been wet at one time,also dust collector is a must w/drum sanders---Carroll

[AL Ursich]

Another tip is to place a strip of fiber packing tape on the back side of the ends of the paper where they tuck into the roller.

AL

[John Grabowski]

Al, can you explain why for the fiber backing tape? Alos, can you give a brand to buy?

Thanks again,

John G

[Mike Cutler]

John

I've run a lot of material through a 16-32,and that is what I call burn residue, I'm surprised that you didn't end up with a burn stripe on the wood. It is caused by an accumulation of dust that wasn't removed by the DC getting between the drum and material. Add a little sap resin, heat, and that's what you get.
The paper is not trash. Roll the paper out along a 2x4 ans clamp it at both ends. Use simple green and a brass brush to clean. Saturate the area with the simple green and let it stand for about a 1/2 hour and it cleans up.
I used to put rolls in a small bucket to soak and clean a bunch of them at once.

[John Grabowski]

Mike, thanks for the tip...I will give it a try.

John G

[Ron Jackson]

+1 for the bite that's too heavy.
Not famaliar with the performax, but my dual-drum has an adjustable rate of feed. Sometimes on woods such as cherry, if the feed speed is too slow, it will encourage burning. Might play with the rate of feed, if you have that capability

[george wilson]

You can't use finer than 120 grit in a drum sander. It won't work. I am surprised that no one has mentioned it yet.

[Andrew Schlosser]

thanks for the tip about soaking the paper! I've had lots of burn marks on my new-to-me drum sander.

I also have a very difficult time getting the paper tucked into the drum tightly at the end of the paper.

In fact, I question the use of it anymore. I have to go so slow, with so little removed, that I feel more productive with my random orbital sander and shop vac. I understand that the drum sander will give me the flat surface, but seems like it's more trouble than its worth.

[John Grabowski]

Again, I appreciate all the great info. Does anyone have any tips on how to keep the paper? Also what brand of paper do you guys buy? Where do you get it? Thanks so much.

John G

[John Morrison60]

You can't use finer than 120 grit in a drum sander. It won't work. I am surprised that no one has mentioned it yet.

George

I use 150 grit paper in my WoodMaster all the time. What has been your experience with the finer grades?
What bad things have you seen happen? Have I just been lucky? I normally work in Cherry, and it seems
to work fine.

John

[Joe Kaufman]

I have a 10-20 and experienced similar results. I finally filed the corner/outer radius of the drum where the paper enters and leaves the drum surface to increase/blend the radius on the surface of the drum. It didn’t take much filing to greatly reduce the problem. If I remember correctly, it was more of a problem on the trailing end where the sanding material exited the drum to go into the spring take-up clamp. I am using wide belt material which may be a little tougher to make the radius w/o sticking proud of the surface. The build-up would always start at the radius of the slot and the longer you used that area, the longer the stripe of build-up would get.
Joe

[george wilson]

You can use 150 grit, it is close to 120,but I have never been able to use 220. It is too fine,and just burns. There have been past threads about using too fine a paper in drum sanders. It didn't seem to work for anyone. I am very good at adjusting mine,and the 220 just doesn't work out.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

+1 on light passes, 1/4 turn max. If you try to go fast it will burn. I've used 220, but very very light passes, and it's pretty much a waste of time, as it makes those annoying lines and you have to RO sand anyways........

[Mike Cutler]

+1 on light passes, 1/4 turn max. If you try to go fast it will burn. I've used 220, but very very light passes, and it's pretty much a waste of time, as it makes those annoying lines and you have to RO sand anyways........


It's been my experience that anything over about 1/6th of a turn is going to start tripping the motor breaker.At least with the machine I had. Doing a 1/4 turn would sped things up for me. Now I use a 26" Dual Drum sander. I loved the 16-32, but it just took too long.
George Wilson is right about the 220. My "general experience" has been to stop at 150 and do the rest by hand. There have been exceptions though. African Blackwood being one of them.

[Paul Johnstone]

I use 150/220 on my double drum sander.
You can use fine grits just fine.
However, you have to take even smaller bites.
1/4 of a turn is way too much on my machine for such a fine grit.

The first pass, the height is adjusted so I can just barely hear the paper hitting the wood.
Then I run it at the same height again, to ensure I didn't take too big of a bite.
I turn maybe 1/16 or 1/32 turn at a time, because I am finish sanding.
I will periodically run at the same height, again, just to ensure I am not too far ahead on things.

It sounds like this would take forever, but if the glueup is flat, I only need maybe 3 passes on each side. I get an excellent finish.

[Bob Preshong]

My first guess would be a pitch pocket, I haven't read all the thread so some one else may have allready said this. I've had this problem with cherry, purpleheart, bloodwood, and several others, some of the worst offenders I don't even try any more.

[David Nelson1]

First off nice gloat even without pics! :-) I have the same machine and looking @ the pic you provided I am going to agree with everyone else about the light touch and 1/64th turns, but @ the same time I wanna remind you that the manual fore warns about burns due to the paper becoming a bit slack. It will over lap and that area is now thicker. You can actually hear it starting to happen if you listen to the machine. I dont general sand in the same spot to make use of the entire belt so making the sure the drum is parrallel to the bed is important.

I'll sand the with new paper about 5 minutes and then recheck it. LOading the paper and making sure its tight is a PITA. Other than that I love this sander saves me quite a bit of time