Just a Couple of Things

[Jim Koepke]

The camera went to the shop today to take some pictures for a different thread.

Then my mind wondered over a couple of other things that have been mentioned recently.

One was using a router plane like a marking gauge that someone mentioned. That came in handy today for marking from an edge that is not square to the face. A wheel gauge would also work OK, but the router is being used to smooth the bottoms of the joint so why not?

175568

Another recent post mentioned there not being much use for a 2" chisel. Well, that is likely true for most of us, but sometimes there are bigger pieces of lumber involved and the bigger the lumber, the bigger the chisel.

175567

Just for fun,

jtk

[harry strasil]

What we know as a framing square is 2 inches wide for the body and 1.5 inches wide for the tongue, the reason being that in old timber framing days, those were the two most common mortice and tenon widths, thusly 2 inch and 1.5 inch chisels were a very common tool, so there are a lot of them still wandering around in the wild from bygone days. Just like the 3 most common hand saws were a 4 to 5 ppi rip, 7 to 8 ppi crosscut and a 10 to 12 ppi panel saw, plus a rip and crosscut backed or back saws. A lot of things and/or procedures are just holdovers from history.

[Jim Koepke]

A lot of things and/or procedures are just holdovers from history.

Makes me think of a few of the places I worked. When someone mentioned a different way to do or improve things someone would say, "we've always done it this way and we aren't going to change now."

Many of those places do not exist today.

jtk

[Rick Markham]

Jim that's a slick looking chisel! Your comment above reminds me of more than a few cook's attitudes in some professional kitchens I have worked at... the places are still there... those people are not. "instant" behavioral adaptation to environment is one of the human animal's greatest advantages (probably one of our only), it always makes me wonder why the majority of us fight change so much.

[Jim Koepke]

Jim that's a slick looking chisel! Your comment above reminds me of more than a few cook's attitudes in some professional kitchens I have worked at... the places are still there... those people are not. "instant" behavioral adaptation to environment is one of the human animal's greatest advantages (probably one of our only), it always makes me wonder why the majority of us fight change so much.

The chisel is one of the few Stanley chisels I own. The handle is a salvaged chair leg and about 14" long.

I think change is like getting out of bed in the morning. Once some folks are in a comfort zone they want to stay there until being forced to do something different.

Others like to get out of bed, build a fire and make coffee to start a new adventure.

jtk

[harry strasil]

Ok, whether it was aimed at me or not. In a way I guess all my life it seems I have been resisting change, but, I enjoy doing woodworking my way (sometimes the old way, sometimes like no one else period. But there is one thing to consider about doing things the tried and true way. The majority of my competitors changed to newer methods when I was Smithing, and a good part of my work load was redoing a lot of their work.

Maybe I should have thought inside the box more often, instead of outside of it. Some called me Bull Headed, some just too old to learn anything new, while others just enjoyed having it done right the first time (their words).

.

[Jim Koepke]

Ok, whether it was aimed at me or not. In a way I guess all my life it seems I have been resisting change, but, I enjoy doing woodworking my way (sometimes the old way, sometimes like no one else period. But there is one thing to consider about doing things the tried and true way. The majority of my competitors changed to newer methods when I was Smithing, and a good part of my work load was redoing a lot of their work.

Maybe I should have thought inside the box more often, instead of outside of it. Some called me Bull Headed, some just too old to learn anything new, while others just enjoyed having it done right the first time (their words).

.


No Harry,

It was not aimed at you at all.

There are some who will not change for any reason.

There are some who will change without reason.

Some will change only for price.

Knowing what has always worked will still work is different than insisting on doing something the same way just because it has always been done that way.

Some things will always be done best when the tried and true methods are used.

Some things will be done better with new ways.

For many of us it is fortunate many things can be done the way we want to do them and still bring us pleasure and maybe a little profit.

Wisdom is knowing which to keep the same, which to improve and which really do not matter.

jtk

[Gil Knowles]

Jim

Well said.

Gil

[Rick Markham]

Knowing what has always worked will still work is different than insisting on doing something the same way just because it has always been done that way.

Some things will always be done best when the tried and true methods are used.

Some things will be done better with new ways.

For many of us it is fortunate many things can be done the way we want to do them and still bring us pleasure and maybe a little profit.

Wisdom is knowing which to keep the same, which to improve and which really do not matter.

jtk

Harry, that was my intention as well. (Jim is just a lot more eloquent than I am) My experience is the few cooks that were unwilling to change, were using unsatisfactory techniques... like your competition. There is a major difference, in doing something well (no matter your technique or choice) and just being lazy and taking unsatisfactory shortcuts. My intention was not to insult you, and I appologize sincerely if you took any offense.

Jim, I think that is definitely true about the "comfort zone" and there is something to be said for that, as long as your comfort zone involves actually getting out of bed eventually and not just laying there grumbling expecting others to do your work and still get paid for it :D

[harry strasil]

LOL, I didn't take it as an insult, and I am far from Eloquent LOL, I guess I just spent too many years out demoing old methods of WWing and having too many of the Power Tool, Screw it together quick out of Pressed Sawdust, or cornstalks crown looking down on my tools and abilities as something that should be trashed and never brought up again. I kinda misinterpret things occassionally due to the aforementioned experiences, I meant no offense or other enuendos. Just chalk it up to an old man popping off every once in awhile when discresion would have been a wiser route. Anyway I Hope all of youse have a Happy and Joyous New Year with much gloating and pride over your yet to be seen accomplishments.

Jr.

[lowell holmes]

All we need is for George Wilson to join this discussion and we would have three old bulls storming the pasture. :)

I admire you all.

[Rick Markham]

Happy new years to you too Harry!!! Ha! I have that same very problem and I haven't even attained your life experience yet :D

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I've been meaning to find a 2" chisel - building electric guitars is one of my favorite woodworking tasks, and many of the neck pockets are between 2 and 2 and a half inches wide. 2 3/16 would actually be perfect for some of them, actually; even if I do the final paring with smaller chisels, just being able to whack the line with one blow when marking it out would be handy, sometimes it's a weird place to get at with a straight edge or marking tools...

[Jim Koepke]

I've been meaning to find a 2" chisel - building electric guitars is one of my favorite woodworking tasks, and many of the neck pockets are between 2 and 2 and a half inches wide.

An old plane blade might make a good adaptation to this duty.

jtk

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

An old plane blade might make a good adaptation to this duty.

jtk

Forgot about that - it certainly does! I used to used to use one for marking a lot of those lines, but right now all my plane blades are in planes...

Haven't actually tried using one for those paring cuts I'd love a wide chisel for, maybe next time.

[Walter Plummer]

Didn't anyone else groan at Rick's "Slick" looking chisel pun?

[Jim Koepke]

Didn't anyone else groan at Rick's "Slick" looking chisel pun?

Well kind of, but its kind of small for a slick chisel.

jtk

[Paul Incognito]

Well kind of, but its kind of small for a slick chisel.

jtk
...and they just keep on coming...
PI

[Ray Sheley]

".....it always makes me wonder why the majority of us fight change so much. "

This made me laugh when I thought "Does he know that he is in the neanderthal section?" But then again, our group is always exploring new techniqiues and uses for using old tools, so I guess that it applies.

HAPPY NEW YEARS everyone.

[Jim Koepke]

".....it always makes me wonder why the majority of us fight change so much. "


This made me laugh when I thought "Does he know that he is in the neanderthal section?"

It is not so much a resistance to change it is more like inertia.

Some refuse to stop working and take a few minutes to sharpen a dull blade that is slowing their work. Maybe that is just plain stubbornness.

Even in the world of Neanderthal many of us want to make our working more efficient in order to increase our output, pleasure or profits.

jtk

[Brian Ashton]

Ya know, I really miss a lot of things about the north american life style that I had to give up since moving to australia but when I see pictures like that, the wearing of gloves while working in the shop, I cringe. Now when things get really cold here I put on socks LOL. No matter what there are somethings I just wont ever miss about living in the Pacific Northwest..

[lowell holmes]

I keep a hone and strop out on my bench when working. The time spent on the hone is often a break from a tedious task I'm working on.

[Dan Andrews]

I would love to have had the opportunity to learn the old ways of woodworking from a master like Harry. For that matter I would love to have had the opportunity to learn newer but proven ways of woodworking with hand tools also. I have not had a mentor for my woodworking education. I learn from books, this forum and trial and error. I value learning methods of woodworking that work well for me and my limited skill level.

I suppose all of us who are working wood with hand tools when the job could be done faster and will less skill using power tools, are resisting change to some degree. From what I read here the reasons for turning away from power tools (at least to some extent) to use hand tools, are not based in practicality as much as in the aesthetics of the process.

I can do cabinetmaking fairly well with power tools, but struggle to get quality result with hand tools. I just find that I enjoy the quiet process of producing shavings a lot more than the noisy process of producing sawdust with power tools. I also love the feel of 100 year old tools in my hands. I have no brilliant conclusions to all of this except that to each his or her own and thank goodness we woodworkers come in a great variety. From the traditionalist who makes Windsor chairs with 1700's hand tools to the CNC woodworker who can produce elegant and ornate furniture that is affordable for non-millionares. Even I produce useful things from wood while greatly enjoying the process.