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mickey cassiba
12-29-2010, 9:29 PM
Way off topic, but I'm looking for a high quality padlock for a storage unit. My old standby the Master #5 is (to my dismay) hackable with a piece of aluminum pop can. The storage yards here have great gate security, but once you're inside, you're pretty much free to do as you please. The latest exploit 'round here is to rent a small unit, and check in at night in the middle of the week and rip off a half dozen units. I figure, if my lock is hard to break/pick they'll move on to the next one. Bad luck for the neighbor, but when it comes down to it, my stuff is more important.
Suggestions?

John Coloccia
12-29-2010, 9:40 PM
No lock you're going to buy is hard to pick for someone who knows how to pick locks. That's just how it is. If you want to know how I know it's because picking locks is a hobby of mine, and they're all relatively easy save for some exotic locks. Abloy locks are particularly difficult to pick cold but you can't really get those here. If you're really worried, I suggest you find a storage place with better security.

Dave Lehnert
12-29-2010, 9:47 PM
A few years ago there was a guy at a local flea market selling lock picks and how to dvd. People were mad at what he was selling.
Not sure how much better they are but at work we use to get our locks from a locksmith. They had the look and feel of a very heavy duty lock. Nothing like you could find in a store.

mickey cassiba
12-29-2010, 10:55 PM
No lock you're going to buy is hard to pick for someone who knows how to pick locks. That's just how it is. If you want to know how I know it's because picking locks is a hobby of mine, and they're all relatively easy save for some exotic locks. Abloy locks are particularly difficult to pick cold but you can't really get those here. If you're really worried, I suggest you find a storage place with better security.
Would if I could John,find a better joint I mean. And these guys aren't picking them, they're whacking them with a hammer or something. I went to Abloys site, but it just gave a lot of fluff. Are they really good? As in making a smash and grab guy go for an easier target?
Ooop's forgot about my tag line...

Dave Beauchesne
12-29-2010, 11:55 PM
Mickey:

Talk to a reputable locksmith - I can't remember the brand, but we had a similar situation where we stored $30,000.00 worth of refrigerant in a storage unit with
questionable security.
The boss sent me out to buy a ' real ' padlock - I got one with magnetic tumblers , and it was in the $150.00 range 10 years ago. Virtually unbeatable, so we were told. Pretty cheap policy @ .5% . They are out there, you might have to dig a bit.

Dave Beauchesne

John Coloccia
12-30-2010, 12:07 AM
Would if I could John,find a better joint I mean. And these guys aren't picking them, they're whacking them with a hammer or something. I went to Abloys site, but it just gave a lot of fluff. Are they really good? As in making a smash and grab guy go for an easier target?
Ooop's forgot about my tag line...

Abloy locks are hard to pick. That said, if you had an impossible to pick lock and I wanted in, I would get in. I would simply cut through the cheap metal your lock is attached to on the storage units. There's really nothing you're going to do other than make your unit maybe more difficult to get into than your neighbor's. Any "high security" lock will do that, but ultimately if I want in, I'm in, either by picking, smashing or cutting (not necessarily your lock). That's the bottom line. The only real security is lots of cameras and an on site guard. If you can't get that, don't stress about your locks. Spend your money on insurance. I hate to say that buy that's the reality. Masterlock "high security" makes a decent lock that most amateurs can't pick or cut. I can pick them in seconds but most can't. They're very hard to brute force off. Hopefully a crook will take a couple of ham fisted swipes at yours and attack your neighbor's instead.

Frank Stolten
12-30-2010, 2:46 AM
There's no question that locks are easy to pick. So easy that all you have to do is search YouTube for info on picking locks and you come up with hundreds of videos on how to pick all kinds of locks including how to make tools to do the job. Crooks don't have to be as clever these days because the info is all right there for them. The typical inexpensive padlock, either key or combination, is just a mild deterrent to a determined crook. All you can hope to do is make it appear more difficult to break into than someone else's.

David Freed
12-30-2010, 10:24 AM
Could you install a motion detector inside the unit hooked to a LOUD siren or alarm? If there is security at the gate, this would get their attention. Your door or lock might be broken, but if the security is any good at all, they won't let anyone leave with anything until they see what is going on.

Dan Friedrichs
12-30-2010, 10:33 AM
Are multiple locks possible? You might have a thief who is good at picking one type of lock, but what if you attached a double-warded lock, a cylinder-type lock, and a combination lock? Presumably the difficulty of picking/breaking all three might cause the thief to find an easier target.

Rick Prosser
12-30-2010, 10:37 AM
Wow - I learned a lot from this thread. Did not realize that locks were so easy...

Can you "pick" a combination lock?

John Coloccia
12-30-2010, 10:38 AM
Anyhow, this is what I normally use. Again, it's trivial to pick but it'll put up a fight from someone just beating on it with a hammer. A lot of other styles of padlocks are even easier to pick (you don't even have to pick them, actually...there's something else you can do) and they'll come apart with some good sledgehammer blows.

http://www.masterlock.com/products/product_details.jsp?lockStyle=Keyed&typeOfEnvironment=Outdoors&lockUpValue=High&category=MLCOM_ShroudedPadlocks&modelNumber=MLCOM_PRODUCT_M40XD

Mark Bolton
12-30-2010, 10:42 AM
Abloy locks are hard to pick.

Hey John,
Not to hi-jack the thread but it always seems to come in waves, information about "lock bumping". The filing the key with all the same points, little rotational pressure and a bump. I hate to read these things because as you say if they want in often times its not the lock itself thats going to be the way they get it.

Anyway, I always wondered if that was really true or at least as easy as they make it seem. I read a bunch about these companies making bump proof or bump resistant cylinders with split pin thingies in there and so on. I remember reading about a Schlage Primus or something like that and perhaps others that were resistant but for every one there is a YouTube showing someone picking it in a few seconds.

Its an interesting but unnerving topic.

Funny story though about stupid crooks. At our shop we had an entry door going into one of the end bays. One night a bit prior to us buying the shop while we were renting someone tried to break in. Crowbar or something in bewteen the jamb/door in several places. They were unsuccessful as there was a hasp inside because the door was an out swing. As the previous owner was talking about it I said, well the stupid thing is its an out swing door, a nail, a hammer, and peck the three hinge pins out of the door and it would have fallen out of the opening. He got a little panicky to say the least.

Comical that many crooks are not too intelligent,...

Mark

Russ Filtz
12-30-2010, 10:49 AM
Agree with the Abloy. Go here and shop around. They also have good info on subjects like lock bumping, etc., in the Info area. Puck style are hard to cut or pick. They also have some SERIOUS padlocks from S&G. $1,000+!!

https://securitysnobs.com/

https://securitysnobs.com/item_images/db32f23bc5c2fa483e6dda8d908b2f06_2.jpg

Check out this website. The guy is a security consultant I think. Has info on lockpicking and which locks are good. Also has some tricks on locking up firearms when traveling.

http://deviating.net/

John Coloccia
12-30-2010, 11:07 AM
Hey John,
Not to hi-jack the thread but it always seems to come in waves, information about "lock bumping". The filing the key with all the same points, little rotational pressure and a bump. I hate to read these things because as you say if they want in often times its not the lock itself thats going to be the way they get it.

Anyway, I always wondered if that was really true or at least as easy as they make it seem. I read a bunch about these companies making bump proof or bump resistant cylinders with split pin thingies in there and so on. I remember reading about a Schlage Primus or something like that and perhaps others that were resistant but for every one there is a YouTube showing someone picking it in a few seconds.

Its an interesting but unnerving topic.

Funny story though about stupid crooks. At our shop we had an entry door going into one of the end bays. One night a bit prior to us buying the shop while we were renting someone tried to break in. Crowbar or something in bewteen the jamb/door in several places. They were unsuccessful as there was a hasp inside because the door was an out swing. As the previous owner was talking about it I said, well the stupid thing is its an out swing door, a nail, a hammer, and peck the three hinge pins out of the door and it would have fallen out of the opening. He got a little panicky to say the least.

Comical that many crooks are not too intelligent,...

Mark

re: is it true that it's that easy?
Unfortunately, yes it is. Bumping a lock is about the easiest way to get in, even easier than a pick gun. Blah. Everyone's lazy these days, even the crooks. I do it for fun so I use old fashioned picks and can still get into most locks very very quickly. The exception are some really difficult locks, like the Abloy. In fact, I don't even know that you can actually pick an Abloy lock. There are ways of getting in with a special tool, but the way the Abloy works just doesn't lend itself to any sort of conventional attack. I studied one closely when I was in Finland (where EVERYTHING pretty much has Abloy locks on it) and it's fiendishly clever!

There are bump resistant locks. They use all sorts of different technology. Mushrooms, serated pins, false pins, etc etc. None of these pose much trouble for someone with a little practice under their belt. I do have a Schlage entry door lock here that's difficult....certainly more difficult than the Kwikset I have! I still get in. It just takes a more refined touch with the tension wrench, that's all.

Bill Huber
12-30-2010, 11:10 AM
It would be a little more trouble but a 10 foot rope with a Pit-bull on the end is a very good lock and really hard to pick.

Jerome Stanek
12-30-2010, 11:21 AM
Hey John,
Not to hi-jack the thread but it always seems to come in waves, information about "lock bumping". The filing the key with all the same points, little rotational pressure and a bump. I hate to read these things because as you say if they want in often times its not the lock itself thats going to be the way they get it.

Anyway, I always wondered if that was really true or at least as easy as they make it seem. I read a bunch about these companies making bump proof or bump resistant cylinders with split pin thingies in there and so on. I remember reading about a Schlage Primus or something like that and perhaps others that were resistant but for every one there is a YouTube showing someone picking it in a few seconds.

Its an interesting but unnerving topic.

Funny story though about stupid crooks. At our shop we had an entry door going into one of the end bays. One night a bit prior to us buying the shop while we were renting someone tried to break in. Crowbar or something in bewteen the jamb/door in several places. They were unsuccessful as there was a hasp inside because the door was an out swing. As the previous owner was talking about it I said, well the stupid thing is its an out swing door, a nail, a hammer, and peck the three hinge pins out of the door and it would have fallen out of the opening. He got a little panicky to say the least.

Comical that many crooks are not too intelligent,...

Mark


That may not work as there are what are hinges with non removable pins. The pins are put in and the a set screw is tightened into a groove in the pin you can not pound them out and when the door is closed you can't get to the set screw.

harry strasil
12-30-2010, 12:25 PM
I remember an old saying, ALL ANY LOCK IS, IS A MEANS TO KEEP AN HONEST PERSON HONEST.

Trevor Howard
12-30-2010, 1:21 PM
Seeing an out of place/expensive lock in a storage facility, (most round here supply the lock, and they look the same) would likely attract more attention to a would be crook. To me that is advertising that there is something of great value. I second John on getting enough insurance.

Mark Bolton
12-30-2010, 1:59 PM
That may not work as there are what are hinges with non removable pins. The pins are put in and the a set screw is tightened into a groove in the pin you can not pound them out and when the door is closed you can't get to the set screw.

Yeah, for sure, but this is just a simple steel entry door, they would have pecked out with just a few taps...

Mark