Wich jig use to build the front frame of cabients?

[Jose Luis]

Hi guys, im trying to purchase the tools that i will need to make the front frame of my kitchen cabinets, after read some vids and mags, i think that i will need some Doweling Jig, i cant spend too much money, i will purchase it from Argentina, and in some store in USA.
What think abt this one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Wolfcraft-Pro-Doweling-Jig-Kit-Dowel-Jig-3751405-/320633892443?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa744ee5b

any other to recommend me?
other way to make the front frame?
Some home Jig to build?

Thanks

[Paul Johnstone]

Consider a pocket hole jig instead. It's a lot faster, easier and stronger.

This version is a great value for the money, I think and would work well for you
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000J43A7W/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000BKJ9PQ&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0ZZJY703QV4JWV5HBGM4

If you want a less expensive version, you can get one of these, but it will be more difficult to line it up and clamp it.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00065WPP2/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000BKJ9PQ&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0ZZJY703QV4JWV5HBGM4

You need to buy special pocket screws to use these jigs.

[Craig Michael]

For face frames, most use pocket holes as Paul suggested. The holes are on the backside of the FF so they are hidden. Use some titebond II glue on the pocket hole joint and it's very strong and quick to make. It's much better than dowels, etc. since you glue and screw it in minutes and move to the next joint. You don't have to wait for the glue to set up like with dowels, etc. and you don't have the extra cost of all kinds of clamps.

check out you tube and kreg's on website for some videos. http://www.kregtool.com

It's a great system. I'd recommend getting the K3 kit since you'll find a million other uses and it comes with the bench set up for production and the mobile guide for use where ever, plus it has the clamp which you need to use the mobile guide block and to join the FF's. Also check out the bench clamp set up and depending on how you build your cabinets, take a look at the right angle clamp which might be helpful. The screws are not really that special. They are designed for pocket hole screws but you should have a source for this type of screw near you.

http://www.amazon.com/Kreg-K3MS-Master-Pocket-System/dp/B0009VD03Y/ref=sr_1_6?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1293591685&sr=1-6

[Larry Frank]

I have made face frames with all of the different joints. The pocket hole method is the best and most reliable.

[Jose Luis]

Thanks too much, trying to get some store that ship that jig to Argentina :S

[Greg Portland]

I'd recommend getting the K3 kit since you'll find a million other uses and it comes with the bench set up for production and the mobile guide for use where ever, plus it has the clamp which you need to use the mobile guide block and to join the FF's. It sounds like budget is an issue (he's looking at $20 jigs). Kreg's R2 Rocket system (http://compare.ebay.com/like/320618367609?ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&rvr_id=191354179150&crlp=1_263602_304662&UA=%3F*F%3F&GUID=4507d0551270a0e205352325fe9022b0&itemid=320618367609&ff4=263602_304662) or their new Kreg Jig Jr. (http://www.kregtool.com/Kreg-Jigreg-Jr-Prodview.html) is everything he'll need to build the face frame.

[Jose Luis]

well, if shipping fee are the same i can purchase the expensive one... but,
Kreg R2 Rocket Pockethole System looks nice.

[Bill Huber]

I think that dowels are the best, not the best for speed but the best for holding the frame together. The problem I have had with pocket screws is the fact that you really have to hole them or they will creep when you go to put them together.

With a good doweling jig there is no creep or anything like that, they just go together and say there.

I know you don't want to spend a lot of money but I really like and use the Jessem Doweling jig, spot on and easy to use. It is a tool you can buy once and have it for years and years and use it on tons of different projects.

http://www.jessem.com/DOWELING_JIG.html

[lowell holmes]

We used to use corrugated fasteners to assemble face frames or toe nails and glue.

I had a cabinet maker that had a corrugated fastener air gun.

I prefer the Kreg pocket hole set-up.

It works really well.

[Richard McComas]

I think that dowels are the best, not the best for speed but the best for holding the frame together. The problem I have had with pocket screws is the fact that you really have to hole them or they will creep when you go to put them together.

With a good doweling jig there is no creep or anything like that, they just go together and say there.

I know you don't want to spend a lot of money but I really like and use the Jessem Doweling jig, spot on and easy to use. It is a tool you can buy once and have it for years and years and use it on tons of different projects.

http://www.jessem.com/DOWELING_JIG.html

I heard about the ''creap'' thing from a number of woodwrokers and don't unstand it. I guess that has never been a problem, I never get ''creap''. If I was going to take the time for dowels I'd go ahead and do M&T joints. That being said I've used the Kreg for as long as I can remember and NEVER had a face frame fail. Just my .02

[Keith Weber]

Just curious as to what method all you kitchen cabinet builders are using to attach the finished face frames to the cabinet, as I've got a kitchen build coming up in the next year. Nailing with an 18 ga. nailer would be the easiest, but I don't like nail holes. I'd also like to avoid seeing pocket holes when I open the cabinets.

Keith

[Rick Prosser]

I heard about the ''creap'' thing from a number of woodwrokers and don't unstand it. I guess that has never been a problem, I never get ''creap''. If I was going to take the time for dowels I'd go ahead and do M&T joints. That being said I've used the Kreg for as long as I can remember and NEVER had a face frame fail. Just my .02

I also have not had an issue with creep, but I use the Kreg clamps to hold the pieces together. I can see where there could be an issue without clamps. Even so, if the screw starts in the correct location it can pull the joint tight in the correct position without a clamp - at least it did for me. As with everything else, it seemed to get easier with practice.

[Todd Trebuna]

When using pocket screw, you will get creep if you don't support the workpiece. As long as you clamp the joint securely before you drive the screws, the joint comes together perfectly.
For example, On a 90 degree joint, I always clamp a 4x4 to my bench, then I clamp the verticle to that. I then clamp the horizontal to the bench. I drive the screws, and the joint comes together perfectly. I have learned the hard way that if you just hold it together, you will never generate the kind of strength required to counteract the force the screw is applying, and the piece will creep out of alignment.
This is just my experience as a novice woodworker. I'm sure others with greater skill have mastered this problem.
Blessings,


-Todd

[Jim Heffner]

First, I would use pocket hole screws,easier, faster and simpler than any other method.
After drilling pocket holes, clamp pieces together at the corners, check for square, and install
the pocket hole screws and then your done!

[Tom Hargrove]

I'm not sure that Titebond II or any other "wood glue" will add much strength to a joint involving end grain to face grain. I know glue alone won't hold this joint together for long.

[Matt Meiser]

Did anyone mention using pocket screws?

I made a work surface for clamping them up with some hardwood on 2 edges for squaring everything up. I clamped them very tightly to the surface with vise-grip style clamps with big pads. That worked great. Now I've built a Kreg Klamping table.

Tom, I had a FF I made 2" to wide and thought I'd just pull the screws and knock the glue joints apart. The, glue held nicely and ripped wood from the stile.

[Roger Jensen]

I have had similar experience to Matt gluing face-frames with pocket screws. I had to replace a couple of rails, and when knocking it apart the wood on the stiles splintered. I ended up having to 'pre-cut' the stiles around the rails with a razor so the wood on either side of the rail didn't tear.

I read that the glue-up is important because the screws will eventually loosen with seasonal wood swelling and shrinking. Given my experience taking them apart, I'm not afraid of the joint failing if the screw becomes loose.

Roger