Need Planer or Jointer/Planer advice

[Matt Meiser]

As you may have seen in another thread I've been looking at Jointer/Planer machines. I installed a Byrd head in my 6" jointer last year and really like it. I've got a nice Parks planer I restored this year but while a Byrd head is available for it (for $900) I've not found anyone who's installed one and frankly I'm afraid to spend that much money on the unknown. I'm concerned I wouldn't be happy with the result, or worse, differing loads could crack the bearing caps or damage the gearbox.

In reality I've never found the 6" jointer to be terribly limiting. A lot of S4S or straight line ripped and planed stock I've bought really hasn't needed face jointing. When it has I've used the trick of removing the guard and either rotating the stock or hand-planing off the remaining ridge to get it flat enough for the planer. Or worst case I've got a friend with a 16" Minimax combo with a Byrd head. I think I've done that twice. I could even make a planer sled which is something I've never tried before.

I was thinking of replacing the planer with a J/P and keeping the jointer. The J/P would usually be used for planing, but when I had wide stock I could joint too. Edge jointing would still be done on the 6" jointer as would any face jointing up to its capacity.

Originally, I was looking at Grizzly's G0634Z but changed my mind after reading about the fence design which would result in me needing to rearrange the shop again--changing DC plumbing--and about the need for a 25A circuit which would require buying materials and installing an additional circuit which would surely run me $100+.

So I started looking at the Jet JJP-12HH which seems to be everything the Grizzly is and offers a smaller fence design and electrical requirements that wouldn't require a new circuit. The best price I've found is $2640--$300 more than I'd told my wife the Grizzly cost and even that is a point of contention.

I thought about buying a JJP-12 without the helical head based on reports of no real tearout issues and later upgrading to a Byrd head, but then found out that there are other differences in the machines beside the head so this would be a dead-end route.

I saw today that I could get a Grizzly 15" planer with a spiral head for right about $1500 delivered with liftgate service with the Woodworkers Journal code. Electrically, layout, and ducting I really wouldn't need to make any shop changes.

A 15" planer is really more than I need but no one makes a heavy duty 12" or 13" anymore.

Another option would be to buy a Dewalt DW735 from Amazon about $500, tables for $45, and install a Byrd head for just over $400. I'd build a stand and come in at right about $1K. I'm just not sure about this one.

Or maybe writing this all up is like talking to a therapist and I've already made my mind up. :D But I'd still like to hear others thoughts.

[Paul Johnstone]

Well, I can tell you my experience.
I started with a lunchbox planer. Then upgraded to the Jet 13" planer/molder, which was more heavy duty than a lunchbox (another option to consider). Then I got a Jet 20" planer with spiral last year. The wide planer is so nice. A lot of glueups, if the boards are reasonably straight, I plane each rough face and join the egdes. Then I glue up, and put the whole glueup through the planer when done. Get great results in less time, and have not had a problem with the boards warping later.

Of course, sometimes you still need to face join the boards, but most of the time, I don't have to.

Planing takes a lot less time (You can do multiple small boards at once).

So, I guess if I was you, I'd get the 15" planer and forgo the combo machine.

Later on, you can upgrade to an 8" jointer if need be.. Actually, the only reason I upgraded to an 8" jointer was to get longer tables, so it was easier to join boards 6'-8' long (especially 8/4).. If I had bought a long bed 6" jointer, I might have never upgraded. As I said, a lot of kiln dried hardwood is pretty flat and doesn't really need to be face jointed (in my opinion of course, I know others think differently and I respect that).

[Rod Sheridan]

Matt, maybe it's just me, however the thought of spending all that money on a lunchbox planer doesn't make much sense.

At the end of all the work and expense you still have a lunchbox planer. Now. I'll admit I have never owned one, however my brother has one and I'm not impressed.

I had a General planer, now an A3-31 Hammer. Both of those machines were good planers.

Out of the items you're looking at I would go with the Grizzly and have a cast iron planer with the cutter head you want.

Regards, Rod.

P.S. My wood usage is opposite yours, I buy all my material rough so I need a wider jointer, you seem to be able to do fine with surfaced material in your area so the smaller jointer works well for you.

[Neil Brooks]

I'm sort of with Rod, on this one.

I have, and really like, a Ridgid R4330 13" lunchbox planer:

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_WVVYjLCNo2w/TOLu7SpVVlI/AAAAAAAABW8/df3tBYNP9XE/s640/P1050027.JPG

But every time I even *think* about a Byrd head for it, I start to think ..... that .... spending a LOT of money to upgrade a lower-tier machine ... will only buy me time .... until I go for a serious version of that same basic tool (there's a used, cast iron, Delta that I've been looking at, for $600).

And I won't get enough of my money back on the planer PLUS helical head to make it worth my while.

So ... when *I* think about these decisions, I think out a couple of years.

If I have all the planer I need, but just wish it would be a little quieter, or a little more effective at highly figured woods, then ... I might pay the upgrade bill.

But ... if .... in a few years' time ... I believe I'll need to offload the tool and get a "serious" version of the same thing (in my case, the question always comes up, concerning my band saw, my jointer, and my contractor's table saw), I tend to think that saving my pennies, for now, makes more sense.

Of course, with transferable bits (eg, the Incra 1000SE and Forrest WWII on my table saw), the math looks different.

Good luck !

[Matt Meiser]

You guys are pretty much saying what I was thinking on the Dewalt--just didn't convey it well. My first thought is "that's a lot to pay for a disposable planer." I was just throwing it out there as something I'd thought about.

[Russell Smallwood]

I thought about a jp combo. I'd even made up my mind to get one but then slowly talked myself out of it because I know that changing the setup from jointer to planer would get in the way when I was riffing in the shop.

I bought the grizz + spiral. Love it.

Personally, I will never own a lunchbox again. The serrated infeed rollers are a big deal for me as I hated having to clean the rubber rollers constantly and working with larger stock was a real hassle.

One of the things I was worried about was floor space but the 453 px/z/? is a lot smaller than I'd imagined it to be. About the same size as a 435 on a rolling cart with in/out-feed extensions.

Unless its unavoidable, I don't see myself going back to knives. The noise reduction was (belive it or not) one of the primary benefits for me to going with the spiral but I'll take the other advantages as well.

Next up - G0440 then a 490x and the transformation of my shop from early-90's low-end delta to 2000's Griz professional machines will be complete.

[Jeff Duncan]

I personally would look for a better quality used 15" planer, and if you really felt you needed one (they are all the rage these days) get yourself a spiral head for it.

Spending close to $1k for any woodworking machine with a universal motor powering it would make me think twice!


good luck,
JeffD

[John TenEyck]

I would get a good used 15" or larger planer, as another said. With the money you save over a new one you could afford to buy a large jointer as well, also used of course. There are so many older, high quality used machines around I would never buy new.

[Matt Meiser]

Buy the time I buy any 15" planer on CL within 250 miles of me, drive to get it, eat lunch, etc and buy a Byrd head, I'm at the price of the Grizzly.

[David Hawxhurst]

sounds like your getting the grizzly.

[Matthew Sherman]

I'm sort of with Rod, on this one.

I have, and really like, a Ridgid R4330 13" lunchbox planer:



But every time I even *think* about a Byrd head for it, I start to think ..... that .... spending a LOT of money to upgrade a lower-tier machine ... will only buy me time .... until I go for a serious version of that same basic tool (there's a used, cast iron, Delta that I've been looking at, for $600).

And I won't get enough of my money back on the planer PLUS helical head to make it worth my while.

So ... when *I* think about these decisions, I think out a couple of years.

If I have all the planer I need, but just wish it would be a little quieter, or a little more effective at highly figured woods, then ... I might pay the upgrade bill.

But ... if .... in a few years' time ... I believe I'll need to offload the tool and get a "serious" version of the same thing (in my case, the question always comes up, concerning my band saw, my jointer, and my contractor's table saw), I tend to think that saving my pennies, for now, makes more sense.

Of course, with transferable bits (eg, the Incra 1000SE and Forrest WWII on my table saw), the math looks different.

Good luck !

I picked up that same Ridgid planer a few weeks ago and really like it so far. I am in the process of building a rolling cart with 40" in/out feed tables. I have a small garage shop so no room for something bigger right now that Mr Meiser is looking for.

[Justin Jones RDH]

I just ordered the G0634Z- its on sale but back-ordered for a few weeks if that makes a difference.

[Matt Meiser]

Well, LOML decided for me. She said that I should order a JJP-12HH (well she didn't call it by model -- she said order the more expensive one because it can do more.) I'm going to keep my 6" jointer because I don't think I'll get enough for it to be worth getting rid of it. It will be my edge jointing/small face jointing machine but if I have something big I can take it to the Jet. But mostly the Jet will stay in planer mode. I think. ;)

[Matt Day]

Awesome! that J/P will be great for you. I'll be doing this same exercise when we finally move into a new house.

[John Coloccia]

I think you'll be very happy, Matt.

[Matt Meiser]

Well, Sean at Toolnut says with any luck Jet could ship it yet today. :D

[Chris Nolin]

Good choice, Matt! The Jet is a fantastic machine. I think others dealing with the same conundrum will benefit from your carefully considered (and written) decision-making process.

[greg a bender]

Congratulations Matt!

They are great units. Be prepared for delivery, they are heavy!
The skid is a non-standard size, meaning a pallet jack doesn't fit. I had to help the driver skid the machine from the front of the trailer to the lift-gate then we wrestled it into the shop.
Two people required to lift it off the pallet. (Be sure to unbolt it! DAMHIKT:rolleyes:)

It fits nice on the heavy duty ShopFox mobile base by the way.

Greg A

[Don Bullock]

Matt, congratulations on your order. The Jet looks like a very well made machine. If they had been available when I was making a decision on jointers and planers I may have gone that route, but I'm happy with my DW735 plainer and G0490 jointer. Most of the lumber available where I shop is S4S so my jointing needs are very limited.

I hope you're planning on keeping the Parks planer. After all that work and expense to restore it you probably wouldn't be able to get everything out of it that you put in. I'm sure you could find a use for it as well.

[Matt Meiser]

It fits nice on the heavy duty ShopFox mobile base by the way.

Good to know--I'm planning to build a mobile base to a design that which started off being loosely inspired by the SF base.


I hope you're planning on keeping the Parks planer. After all that work and expense to restore it you probably wouldn't be able to get everything out of it that you put in. I'm sure you could find a use for it as well.

I am going to sell it. I should be able to do OK on expenses but not if I charged for my time--but then again 1/2 the reason I've restored machines is for the fun of restoring them.

[Steve H Graham]

I recently got so frustrated with planer sled jointing (DW735) that I ordered a Rikon 10" jointer/planer. But I got good advice here and improved my equipment and technique, and I found I could not justify the expense of the new machine, so I cancelled the order.

For me, it's always a balancing act. I want to develop my skills and learn to use what I have, and I don't want to keep spending money unnecessarily. On the other hand, I don't want to waste my whole life trying to master my tools, when I could be producing good work.

I've read about the Shelix thing. Personally, I could never justify that. The factory blades on the DW735 give a finish which requires little sanding.

[Matt Meiser]

I've read about the Shelix thing. Personally, I could never justify that. The factory blades on the DW735 give a finish which requires little sanding.

With most wood there's not much difference. But compare some curly maple run on my planer to some run on my friend's with a Byrd....wow!

[Rod Sheridan]

Well Matt, it's easier to see whether you or your wife are the smarter one.:D

Congratulations on the new machine, sounds like you're going to be very happy with it.

Please let us know in a year if you are still using the 6 inch machine, I predict it will be in the next garage sale.

Regards, Rod.

[Matt Meiser]

Could be!

I just got word that its on its way and I should see it Monday or so. Greg was kind enough to send me mobile base dimensions so one of my projects for the weekend is to get one built so the J/P can go right on the base from the pallet. Even though I don't plan to move it regularly, I've decided that all my stuff should be on mobile bases to allow for rearranging for special projects and cleaning.

[David Hawxhurst]

not that you have time to get them now but using zambus or great lakes casters would have made it nice and easy. i put them on my j/p, not that i plan to move it around a lot but just in case.

[Jeff Monson]

Congrats Matt, Thats a nice machine. IMO you will like having the option of a 12" jointer, I could never go back
to a 6" jointer after having the extra width. If I had the room though, I'd love to have a 6" jointer set up for those quick edge joints and smaller widths, I think you will still use it plenty. The byrd head really shines on figured wood, great upgrade in my book.

[Larry Crowder]

Well, LOML decided for me. She said that I should order a JJP-12HH (well she didn't call it by model -- she said order the more expensive one because it can do more.) I'm going to keep my 6" jointer because I don't think I'll get enough for it to be worth getting rid of it. It will be my edge jointing/small face jointing machine but if I have something big I can take it to the Jet. But mostly the Jet will stay in planer mode. I think. ;)


I am seriously thinking about buying the same machine. Can you tell me where you plan to buy it and how your purchase experience turns out??

Thanks.

[Matt Meiser]

I ended up buying from Toolnut because they have a good reputation and had the lowest price. Everyone drop-ships from Jet in Tennessee as far as I can tell so you are basically dealing with a middle-man to take your order and pass it to Jet. That's as much as I can tell you right now because its waiting out the holiday weekend only 10 miles away!

[Matt Meiser]

Successful landing...

Other than the fact that Jet's "pallet" doesn't allow for a standard pallet jack to fit beneath that is. The driver and I had to wiggle it out of the truck on to the liftgate then off there right into my shop. The one good thing about a massive overhead door!

[Rob Wright]

Matt - congrats! My shipper had the same issue - he rammed the pallet jack into one of the spacers on the bottom until it fell apart, then I got up in the truck with a hammer and took care of the rest of it.

[Mike Zilis]

Congrats Matt. I bought my JJP-12 before they offered an HH option. If I can ever figure out how to justify upgrading the head or the entire machine to the HH version, I'll do it. Otherwise, this machine is terrific. The first time you joint a 12" wide board you'll probably get a smile on your face and realize that there's no going back.

-Mike

[Rod Sheridan]

Looks nice Matt, congratulations.

Did you buy a mobility kit with it or is it going to be stationary?

Regards, Rod.

[Matt Meiser]

I made my own mobile base.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?155906-Jet-Off-White-Paint&p=1598070#post1598070

Between myself and guys from my club we've made somewhere around 30-40 of these. I really like them because of being able to maneuver the machine so easily.

[Rod Sheridan]

I made my own mobile base.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?155906-Jet-Off-White-Paint&p=1598070#post1598070

Between myself and guys from my club we've made somewhere around 30-40 of these. I really like them because of being able to maneuver the machine so easily.

Very nice, I made a similar base for my old cabinet saw........They do work well.

I've now gone to the semi live skid design for my machines............Rod.

[Matt Meiser]

Very early impressions--I'm a happy camper. I easily slid it off the pallet onto board across my mobile base then lowered it into place. Lots of rags and DNA later most of the oil is gone. I grabbed a board from my shorts bin and jointed and planed it as a test.

Notes in no particular order:
- The only setup is installing the actual guard into the arm that holds it.
- I noticed that one of the spare carbide inserts is chipped up so I'm going to call and ask for a replacement but I won't get bent out of shape if they say no since its one edge of one insert. I also noticed that they appear to be identical to real Byrd cutters so sometime I may just order a supply of Byrd ones for both machines. Strangely I also get 2 of the torx drivers to change the inserts. I really need to get the recommended torque screwdriver.
- Changeover to planer mode is very easy. Undo the two locks, flip up the jointer tables, flip over the dust hood and crank the planer table into position. The last part takes the most time--15-20s maybe? Changing it back means just reversing the above, flipping a lock out of the way before lowering the jointer table back down.
- Seems to be pretty well set up from the factory. I borrowed my friend's straightedge so I can set the tables parallel to the head and each other, zero the outfeed table, but without doing that the board I tried looks pretty accurate to the naked eye.
- Planer seems all but snipe-free on my test board. I can see and feel the tiniest bit but it would sand out in one pass of the ROS.
- There's a lot of travel on the planer bed. Going to have to figure out what to do about a digital readout. Probably something like the iGaging strips. Can't go without my DRO!
- The footprint is smaller than I anticipated. With some minor DC plumbing rework I think it will actually go nicely where my planer was. Great news because there's already suitable power there.
- The fence is a little cheesy. But its solid which is what is important. Honestly I think that once I set it it will never get moved anyway. I remember moving my jointer fence once in the past but can't remember why.
- There's one small area on the edge of the planer table where they didn't get any oil and its got a little rust. Honestly I don't think I'm going to waste my time cleaning it up because its that small.
- There seems to be a bit of a dish end-end on the infeed table. I didn't get out my feeler gauges to measure it. I might talk to Jet about it, but honestly I can't see that its affecting flatness of the finished product so I'm not sure I want to go to the trouble of changing it out or having it changed out.
- The euro guard is going to take some getting used to since I have to step the push blocks over it. Once I do I could see fabricating something similar for the 6" machine because it does seem safer and I like that there's nothing slamming back into the fence once you pass it.
- I like the newer pushbutton controls over what was pictured on Jet's site.
- It looks good on my red mobile base. :)

For you guys that have one, what do you do with the tables? Do you still wax them? The corrugated surface seems weird but it is definitely low-friction. I noticed that right away. A 9" wide board glided across it like a smaller board does only when my 6" jointer's tables are freshly waxed. They also sure hold the shipping grease. I've cleaned them 3 times and still get a little black marking on boards. I need to clean a couple more times.

[Rod Sheridan]

Sounds good Matt.

yes I wax the tables on my J/P.

As for a height gauge can you put one of the clock type gauges on the elevation wheel for the planer?

regards, Rod.

P.S. I also like the bridge guard.

For edge jointing I set mine away from the fence a couple of mm smaller than the thickness of the board. That way it holds the bottom of the board tight to the fence..........Very handy.

[Matt Meiser]

Do they sell universal clock-type gauges? There are actually markings on the wheel which would probably be plenty accurate but I think they are metric. I suppose I should read the manual and see.

Good tip on the guard. That makes a lot of sense.

[Richard Gonzalez]

- There's a lot of travel on the planer bed. Going to have to figure out what to do about a digital readout. Probably something like the iGaging strips. Can't go without my DRO!

I put the new Wixey WR-550 (12 inch with remote readout) on my JJP-12. Will post some photos in a new post in a day or two. By the way, using the DRO I figured out that the markings on the wheel are not metric, but in thousanths of an inch. Fairly accurate, but an odd number per full rotation of the wheel.

Richard

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Matt, the digital readouts for the Hammer machines are available in metric or imperial.

The metric is 2.0mm per revolution.

Plane a piece of wood, rotate the handle 360 degrees in the up direction and replane it.

If the difference is 2.0mm the imperial or metric gauge will work for you.

The handle bore is 20mm on those handwheels.

Regards, Rod.

[Michael Koch]

Matt, I was in the same boat that you were about a year ago. I shopped around a bit and found aMiniMax FS 35 Smart at a real good price. I have never looked back. The combo machine is the most used in my shop as most of my lumber is rough. It makes life much easier..Mk

[John Coloccia]

I put the new Wixey WR-550 (12 inch with remote readout) on my JJP-12. Will post some photos in a new post in a day or two. By the way, using the DRO I figured out that the markings on the wheel are not metric, but in thousanths of an inch. Fairly accurate, but an odd number per full rotation of the wheel.

Richard
I didn't realize they made a 12" gauge. WhooHoo! :)

[John Coloccia]

I definitely wax mine. You'll find that you'll eventually have trouble feeding through the planer if you don't keep it periodically waxed.

[Matt Meiser]

I went ahead and ordered an iGaging 12" remote readout from Grizzly based on positive reviews here, including one from a JJP-12 owner who installed one.

[Curt Harms]

Hi Matt, the digital readouts for the Hammer machines are available in metric or imperial.

The metric is 2.0mm per revolution.

Plane a piece of wood, rotate the handle 360 degrees in the up direction and replane it.

If the difference is 2.0mm the imperial or metric gauge will work for you.

The handle bore is 20mm on those handwheels.

Regards, Rod.

Assuming the JJP-12 & JJP-12HH have the same planer bed elevation mechanism, the ratio is 4mm or 5/32" per turn according to the placard. Here's a pic of my iGaging DRO:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=168832&d=1291130468

[Rod Sheridan]

Thanks Curt, so the Jet has twice the table elevation per handwheel rotation compared with the Hammer machine............Rod.

[Bas Pluim]

For you guys that have one, what do you do with the tables? Do you still wax them? The corrugated surface seems weird but it is definitely low-friction. I noticed that right away. A 9" wide board glided across it like a smaller board does only when my 6" jointer's tables are freshly waxed. They also sure hold the shipping grease. I've cleaned them 3 times and still get a little black marking on boards. I need to clean a couple more times.
I wax the tables about once every 2 months, more if there's a large batch of stock going through. Also, don't forget to wax the column that lifts up the planer table. After about six months, I noticed it got a little harder to crank up and down.

I bought a Wixey DRO but haven't figured out yet how to mount it. There are some pictures on the Wixey site, but I'm not the kind of guy that can look at something and reproduce it. The wheel is plenty accurate for gauging how much stock you're removing, the DRO is really only needed if you want to revert to a previous setting.

Another month and you'll wonder how you ever did without a bridge guard.

[Matt Meiser]

Well, I did my first little project using the new J/P today. Just a simple piece to go on top of our dresser to hide the DVD player and DirecTV boxes but it involved a 10.5" wide board which I easily face jointed and planed with good results. I tried something new (Miller Dowels) and made a mistake so I had to remake one part. It was quick to put the machine back in planer mode to prep some more stock.

I do think I like my old jointer a tad better for edge jointing so I do forsee keeping it around. I can't really explain but I think its mostly its about the reach over the 12" bed giving me a little less feeling of control. Of course I could solve that by bringing the fence to the front, but then I'd be adjusting the fence all the time.

[Matt Meiser]

Please let us know in a year if you are still using the 6 inch machine, I predict it will be in the next garage sale.

You were right. It went to a new home today. After using the JJP-12HH some in jointing mode I was sold.