Mahogany

[Dan Sheehan]

What is the name of the Mahogany I'm looking for? I plan to 100% handwork a small Queen Anne table. The skills I want to develop are shaping cabriole legs, simple carving, and authentic looking finishing.

I don't need the real 200 yr. old salvaged stuff you sometimes read about. So what should I be looking for? And where might I find it in Southern New England/ Eastern NY?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Dan

[John Coloccia]

The one I would stay far away from is African mahogany. i.e. Khaya. You'll have a heck of a time getting any detail in your carving with Khaya as it simply does not take crisp edges well.

[Frank Drew]

Dan,

To stay close to a true reproduction, try to find what's often called genuine Mahogany, also known as Honduras Mahogany, Brazilian Mahogany, South American Mahogany, etc.; specifically, it's Swietenia macrophylla. Since it's considered an endangered species, it's no longer as available as it once was, and it's much more expensive than it used to be, but it's a great timber for furniture making. IMO, the best.

Probably better yet, in terms of making a true reproduction, is, Swietenia mahagoni, or Cuban Mahogany (West Indian Mahogany, Santo Domingo Mahogany...), but it's very difficult to find, and ruinously expensive when you do. Florida is in its natural range (and it was also planted there as an ornamental), so occasionally small lots show up from there, like right after one of their periodic hurricanes.

You'll probably find lots of other woods called "mahogany"; some are related, such as Khaya ivorensis (African mahogany), others have nothing whatever to do with mahogany and just reflect some wood dealer's attempt to put lipstick on a pig. BTW, from my limited exposure to Khaya, I agree with John that's it's not your best choice for this project.

[Don Naples]

Honduras Mahogany is of course not available. There is some "Genuine Mahogany available at some hardwood suppliers and I have heard of Cuban Mahogany (high quality) available from Florida sources. I am in the process of finishing a mantle, over-mantle, and flame Mahogany veneered panel (insert in the over-mantle) all made from Genuine Mahogany. It looks close to Honduras in color and grain.

[Greg Wease]

Last time I looked, Honduras mahogany was still available (at least here in San Diego) at ~50-100% premium in price over "African" which could be any genus/species that resembles mahogany. I have also seen "tropical" mahogany, which I assume is just another name for something other than genuine. One problem I have with African mahogany is the variability in color and texture board to board and often in different areas of the same board.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Folks have given you good advice so far. As for what is mahogany, it is any one of over 50 species in the genus Swietenia. The ones that are traditionally used in making furniture are Swietenia macrophylla which has a number of countries of origin in Central and South America, and the rare and expensive Cuban Mahogany which was the wood used in the 17th through 19th centuries until it was almost forced into extinction. When you go to choose your "genuine mahogany" pick out the heaviest pieces. They are most dense, strongest, and most importantly, they hold cut and carved detail the best.

[Frank Drew]

Whether or not there's any appreciable amount of Mahogany left in Honduras, the hardwood lumber trade long used the term Honduras Mahogany for any Central or South American Mahogany (S. macrophylla) offered for sale; more recently, Genuine Mahogany seems to be the popular term for the same wood, intentionally making a distinction between it and all those other "mahoganies" out there.

[David Keller NC]

What is the name of the Mahogany I'm looking for? I plan to 100% handwork a small Queen Anne table. The skills I want to develop are shaping cabriole legs, simple carving, and authentic looking finishing.

I don't need the real 200 yr. old salvaged stuff you sometimes read about. So what should I be looking for? And where might I find it in Southern New England/ Eastern NY?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Dan

Dan - You wouldn't want the 200 year old salvaged stuff. It's not only gut-wrenchingly expensive, it smells bad - really, really bad. And it has been adsorbing the toxins of the less-than-green pesticide industry for at least a century. Some of those goodies include DDT, various arsenic and mercury compounds used as insecticides through the 1960's, and just plain old nasty pollution that was rampant before the "green" revolution.

The advice you've been getting so far to stay far away from "african mahogany" is dead-on. Any of the species sold as "african mahogany" are inappropriate for early American reproductions.

Even true honduran mahogany is something you need to be careful about. I've seen a lot of incredibly low quality honduran mahogany for sale at local wood outlets. Typically, this wood is characterized by narrow boards (narrow is anything less than 12" wide in mahogany), the presence of sapwood, very lightweight, very light color, and other indicators of low quality. Typically, this wood is sold for about $8-$11 per b.f., which is very inexpensive for post-ban mahogany (Brazil banned mahogany exports in the mid 2000's).

There are some outlets where you can get very high quality mahogany, and fortunately for you (and you can tell I'm jealous here!), you have the premier supplier within striking distance - that would be Irion Lumber company in Wellsboro, PA. Irion gets their mahogany from a very select group of suppliers in Peru that know what to acquire, which in this case is exceptionally dark, exceptionally dense, and exceptionally wide, clear boards. Their prices are actually very low for the quality of the wood that they supply.

Disclaimer - I've no connection with Irion other than being very happy with what they've sent me - both from the standpoint of getting very high quality mahogany, and with the very reasonable price that it was supplied to me for.

[Dan Sheehan]

Thank you all for sharing your knowledge and providing such good advice. Given all that I've learned, I think I'm not ready for mahogany yet. I'll probably try Black Walnut, also a reproduction quality wood, hopefully suitable for the carving skills I want to build, and much more readily available for the mistakes I'm bound to make. I'll get to the mahogany eventually, when I'm better prepared. Thanks again, Dan

[Frank Drew]

Dan - You wouldn't want the 200 year old salvaged stuff. It's not only gut-wrenchingly expensive, it smells bad - really, really bad. And it has been adsorbing the toxins of the less-than-green pesticide industry for at least a century. Some of those goodies include DDT, various arsenic and mercury compounds used as insecticides through the 1960's, and just plain old nasty pollution that was rampant before the "green" revolution.

David,

Can you expand on the odor and pesticide issues? I guess I'm not sure what's meant by 200 year old salvaged wood, in the context of Mahogany ( I think I took Dan's use of the term just to mean "salvaged from the ravages of time", not salvaged from some toxic environment somewhere.)

[Andrae Covington]

David,

Can you expand on the odor and pesticide issues? I guess I'm not sure what's meant by 200 year old salvaged wood, in the context of Mahogany ( I think I took Dan's use of the term just to mean "salvaged from the ravages of time", not salvaged from some toxic environment somewhere.)

I'm guessing he means Greener Lumber (http://www.greenerlumber.com) which is pulling old-growth mahogany etc. logs out of rivers in Belize.

[Joshua Clark]

Dan-

As far as a source goes, I'm sure you can find what you are looking for at Condon's in White Plains, NY. I have bought a bunch of mahogany from them over the years for furniture and for a deck repair projects. They had at least three different kinds the last time I was there- Philippine, Honduras, and African. The guys there should be able to tell you the exact species for the common names. They aren't cheap, but their selection is unparalleled in this area. If you go bring your check book-they don't take credit cards.

Depending on where you are located, another option is Berkshire Products in Sheffield, MA which is right on the corner of NY, CT, and MA. They have the largest selection around- several large warehouses full of lumber. Again, not cheap, but worth it.

Hope this helps,

Josh

[george wilson]

I went to Condon's years ago,and picked out way more Sitka spruce than I'll ever use. They have a very surprising variety of exotic woods on hand,and treated me very well. I stayed at the White Plains Hotel there. At least that's what I think the name was. If I recall,it was a very tall hotel with large letters on the top that said White Plains.

I was a bit surprised to see .25 cal. shell casings laying in the street outside Condon's,but after all, it is the big city!! Best not be there at night.

[Frank Drew]

I'm guessing he means Greener Lumber (http://www.greenerlumber.com) which is pulling old-growth mahogany etc. logs out of rivers in Belize.

Ah, I see, you might be right, Andrae; thanks for the link.

But still, is Belize known as historically a heavy user of pesticides, so much so that the rivers would be full of them? And the terrible smell that David mentions... does river salvaged timber typically smell awful? I could see how it might, having been in a reduced environment for so long; would that odor persist after the lumber has dried?

[Andrae Covington]

Ah, I see, you might be right, Andrae; thanks for the link.

But still, is Belize known as historically a heavy user of pesticides, so much so that the rivers would be full of them? And the terrible smell that David mentions... does river salvaged timber typically smell awful? I could see how it might, having been in a reduced environment for so long; would that odor persist after the lumber has dried?

Belize didn't stop using DDT until about 1999 or so, after Mexico quit manufacturing it. I believe they used it extensively for malaria control.

As for the smell, when Glen Huey used some of the wood for a Queen Anne dressing table for Popular Woodworking, he said "on the odor scale with ten being the stinkiest, this stuff could rate an 11".:eek: He said it didn't smell bad after finishing though.:cool:

[george wilson]

Mahogany I bought salvaged from an old ship smells bad,too. It was not under water,it's just got fungus or something invisible in it. I get a little rash on my arms when I use it,and I certainly wouldn't want to breathe the dust. A doctor friend who is also a woodworker looked at the rash and said a fungus in the old wood was causing it.

This mahogany came from ship's cabins,not the hull of the ship where it was wet or anything. All you have to do to eliminate the smell from it when a project is made from it is to shellac all sides of it. This is also one way to eliminate musty smells from the insides of old furniture.

[Joshua Clark]

Yup- that's Condon's! The area has gotten a little better, White Plains becoming gentrified and all, though I still wouldn't want to walk down that street alone at night, at least not without my trusty Stanley No. 8.

They do have a nice selection of exotics- I picked up some beautiful Gabon ebony and a stick of pure white holly on my last visit. The crew they have there can seem rough- they are New Yorkers, after all.. but if you pay attention to lumber yard etiquette (namely, leave the stacks as neat or neater than you found them) they will go out of their way to help you. I've had them help load my truck at least twice.

Josh

[John Coloccia]

I went to Condon's years ago,and picked out way more Sitka spruce than I'll ever use. They have a very surprising variety of exotic woods on hand,and treated me very well. I stayed at the White Plains Hotel there. At least that's what I think the name was. If I recall,it was a very tall hotel with large letters on the top that said White Plains.

I was a bit surprised to see .25 cal. shell casings laying in the street outside Condon's,but after all, it is the big city!! Best not be there at night.

.25s? Shucks, that's just kids playing, George. :)

[george wilson]

It is a truly miserable caliber,John. I'd rather be armed with a .22 long rifle cal. pistol. But,as in the old days of low powered gambler's hideout pistols,everyone was afraid of them because they knew it would take surgery to get the bullets out!!:)