??Using French Cleats.

[Mark Stutz]

I've really enjoyed looking at the hanging tool cabinets in several recent threads, as I have one on the drawing board. I'm hoping to use it to practice and refine many of my hand techniques, so it may be a while before there are any PICS ;)
I have used French Cleats to hang the kitchen style cabinets I built for the shop as well as the recent display case I posted. In the case of the shopcabinets, made of plywood, I glued and screwed them to the carcase as I knew there would be a lot of weight. For the display case I simply used some screws as weight wasn't an issue. In both cases, however, the depth of the rabbet in the back is the sum of the back and the cleat, so some of the depth of the cabinet is lost. No big deal on those items.
For the tool cabinet however I see some problems. I want the back to be of sufficient thickness to screw mounting blocks for the tools. It's going to be heavy as well. How should I attach the cleat to the carcass? I was hoping to use solid wood for the back rather than plywood, i.e. a beadboard type or maybe shiplap (if that is the correct term), so I'm thinking I shouldn't attach it to the back itself. Should it be attached to the top in any way?
There sure are a lot of things to think about as I "graduate" ;) :D from plywood to "fine furniture"

[Steve Wargo]

I cut a dado inset about 1/4" from the back of the side, 1/2" thick for the plywood (yes I used Plywood). Then when I glued it up I left the plywood floating in the back dado on 3 sides and glued it in the top dado. When I attached my french cleat, I glued and screwed it at the very top so the 1/4" left over from the outside of the dado rested on the top of the french cleat. While the cleat is not actually attached to the top it is supported by the top. If you're using solid wood, I'd just screw the cleat on and elongate the holes in the cleat to allow for wood movement. If you recess the back panel enough you'll get additional strucural support from the top of the cabinet.

[Mark Stutz]

Thanks Steve. I hope I didn't imply something about plywood that wasn't intended! I've never used anything but, and wanted to try something with solid wood. No offense intended. I've never used a dado for the back, only a rabbet. If a use a dado, I'm assuming I can glue the two end pieces since they are long grain to long grain, allowing the center ones to float. and then attach the cleat to the two outside boards? The way I picture yours, the cleat is only 1/4" thick. Is that correct?

[Steve Wargo]

Mark,
You can make the cleat as thick as you'd like, but if it's thicker, the cabinet will stand out from the wall. I made my cleat 5/8" thick so it actually sticks out from the wall about 3/8". Also attach your cleat to the back so it lines up with wall studs. You want to anchor a heavy cabinet into studs, so measure that before you mount the cleat. If the entire piece is made of solid wood, then I think I'd leave the back panel completely floating, especially if it's going to be wider than 24". When you glue up the carcass, cut up some cork strips, and place them into the dado to take up any slack. If your cabinet is in the basement, or a temperature controlled shop then you may be O.K. gluing the sides, But if it's in the grage, I'd for sure leave it floating in fear of cracking the back panel, or blowing out the corner joints. Make sure you leave some slop in the dado joint. If you're using 3/4" stock, cut the dado 7/16" deep and then cut the back panel so there's an 1/8" of slop all the way around. The cork will keep it from wobbling, and allow the panel to move. Just like building a large frame and panel piece. No offense taken about plywood. I rarely use it, except for veneer work, and then it's often MDF.

[Matt Meiser]

I made my cleats 3/4" thick and recessed them into the back of the cabinet about 1/4" - 3/8" so the cabinet stands out from the wall about 3/8" -1/2". My cleats are glued and screwed to the 1/2" plywood back in my cabinet.

[Tom Hintz]

I have made some French Cleats from 1 1/2"-thick stock for my heavier cabinets, the wall portion lagged to studs.
In those cases, I build a pocket in the top of the cabinet and step the back in just in that area so the rest of the cabinet back is at the full depth. That way I onlu lose a little depth, and only at the top where I often can't rach all the way to the back anyway.
I have a story with photos and a diagram of this at the link below if that might help.

http://www.newwoodworker.com/frenchcleat.html

[Jim Becker]

Mark, in the French Cleat system that WOOD Magazine used for their Idea Shop # 5, which provides continuous strips across the wall, they actually cut the profile in the sides of the cabinets. The sides can, therefore, carry the weight to some extent in addition to a strip of wood integral to the cabinet. The added benefit is that any cabinet or other hanging accessory can be moved anywhere in the shop. If I actually had wall space, I'd likely use a system like that for flexibilty in the shop. Neat idea!

[Steve Wargo]

But that is a cool idea. I really hope to give that a try some time. May not be exactly handsome looking, but it certainly is practical, and for a shop makes total sense.

[Jim Becker]

You can read about it online, Steve at this link (http://woodmagazine.com/wood/story.jhtml?storyid=/templatedata/wood/story/data/463.xml).

[Matt Meiser]

Mark, in the French Cleat system that WOOD Magazine used for their Idea Shop # 5, which provides continuous strips across the wall, they actually cut the profile in the sides of the cabinets. The sides can, therefore, carry the weight to some extent in addition to a strip of wood integral to the cabinet. The added benefit is that any cabinet or other hanging accessory can be moved anywhere in the shop. If I actually had wall space, I'd likely use a system like that for flexibilty in the shop. Neat idea!

When that issue came out, I had just installed a piece of trim all the way around my shop that could easily have been designed to be a french cleat. Now I'm too lazy to change it, but I frequently wish I had seen this before.

[Mark Stutz]

Thanks for all the info, guys. I'm strugling with a compromise between losing depth vs. having the cabinet flush to the wall, which is what I prefer aesthetically.

Tom, thanks for the link. I may have to incorporate something like that into my design. :confused: Did I actually use the word design? ;) WOW!

Tom, as far as glueing vs. floating the back, if it were solid I would definitely float it, but what I'm envisioning are several narrower boards that would float between the two outer ones, glued to the carcass. The only other problem I see would be mounting the tool holders "across" two boards so not to restrict movement, but they likely will be only screwed in place anyway. I am in the basement so there is some seasonal variation, but I run a dehumidifier in the summer.

[Jim Becker]

Thanks for all the info, guys. I'm strugling with a compromise between losing depth vs. having the cabinet flush to the wall, which is what I prefer aesthetically.
Just make the cabinet sides, top and bottom "deeper" to accomodate the mounting solution without compromising the interior depth you need... :) ...you're only talking about an extra inch or so total which shouldn't materially cause major head injuries in the shop!