Template Routing Questions for Guitar Body

[Steve H Graham]

I am still working on the never-ending guitar project, and I have some router questions.

When I started woodworking, I got videos and books to help me, but the things I've learned about template routing really didn't suffice. They skip a lot of things.

I am routing a Telecaster-style body out of solid walnut. It will have four big routs in it: a) neck pocket, b) bridge pickup, c) neck pickup, and d) electronics (from the back).

The main job (routing out the body itself) was not a problem. I used a Bosch 11610EVS in a table with a Woodpecker Plungelift. I had some scary moments, but it worked out.

I thought I would do the smaller routs with a handheld router, for two reasons. First, I would be able to see what I was doing, and second, it seems like routing to a fixed depth is tricky on the table (maybe the melamine I used has sagged a little). I was going to use a Dewalt 611 with a 1/2" wide, 1" deep flush-cut bit.

1. Is a handheld router the best way to go? If I use a flush-cut bit, I have to plunge it nearly all the way into the routs in order to make the bearing contact the template, and that means very deep routing, from the word "go." No sinking in gradually with light passes. This might be easier with the 3-HP Bosch, although it would be nerve-wracking to wiggle the guitar back and forth and watch sawdust fly out, while I was unable to see what I was doing.

I thought about using Forstner bits to remove the waste in advance, but they have pointy things on the ends, and that would screw up the wood at the bottom of the pocket. I also considered plunging over and over to remove waste, but routers have a way of jumping around and ruining things.

2. What about using a mid-size plunge router with a bushing? I could put the bushing against the template and then plunge gradually into the wood instead of going all the way in with just a bearing. This would prevent the bit and bearing from getting close to the template, and that would presumably avert catastrophe. At the end, I would have a hole over 90% complete, and then I could remove the bearing and rely on the flush-cut bit, which would be easier to use at this point due to the small amount of wood it would have to remove.

3. People have recommended using a few dots of hot glue to secure the templates. I tried this on scrap, and the glue tore the templates up. I didn't see any way to remove it using heat, because the template and wood would block the heat gun. Should I forget the glue advice? I'm planning to use carpet tape instead.

[Floyd Mah]

Carpet tape (double sided, medium strength) is good for template mounting. Usually pretty thin and big surface area. Glue dots are good for tacking, but not for template holding.

Waste most of the cavity with a Forstner bit. If the drill point holes at the bottom bother you, just cut to a depth so that the point doesn't go beyond the projected bottom.
If your bit (top-bearing) is too deep, even despite wasting the cavity with the Forstner, start your cut in the interior and plunge to the bottom of the cavity. Then move your router outwards until the bearing contacts the template. If the cavity is deeper than the bearing+bit, then use the template to cut to the limits of the template and then use the walls of the cavity as an extension of the template.

If the bit/bearing combo cuts a hole too deep, consider raising the template (or thicker template) or get the proper length bit.

Your template should be fastened to the workpiece and your router should be handheld for this work.

And for fewer thrills and fewer oops, use a 1/2" or smaller diameter bit, else you will be like Paul Bunyan in the forest without the Blue Ox because of the chips you will be making.

[Cary Falk]

I would use a upcut spiral bit with one of these.
174787
Make the template out of 1/2" plywood. Make the template big enough that you can get plenty of clamps (that are out of the way of the router)on it and the guitar body. Hog out most of the holes with a forstner bit but don't go the full depth of the hole. Make the final pass with the router at full depth to remove any trace of the drill bit. Take your time and make as many passes as necessary.

[Steve H Graham]

What's the best size router to use? The little one is easy to hang onto, but the DW621 will presumably cut easier and with less strife because of the added HP.

[Rick Pettit]

The biggest router you have. The heavier the better. The more hp the better. I use my old hitachi m12v every chance I have.

[Cary Falk]

What's the best size router to use? The little one is easy to hang onto, but the DW621 will presumably cut easier and with less strife because of the added HP.

I wouldn't use a small trim router. The base plate is too small. You will want to get 2 hands on the router for better control. A 3 hp router might be a little mor bulky than I would like but if it all you got, it's better than too small.

[scott spencer]

Hi Steve - I'm far from an expert so take this with a grain of salt. IMO, using a hand router is better than a table router for this task. Guide bushings make sense to me in this case. Since my last guitar project used covers around the pups, I carefully free handed the routs for them using an 11 amp router (Hitachi or Milwaukee...can't remember which) .....that's not suggesting that you do the same, but am stating that was my method. Your DW621 should be great.


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/Jordan%20Guitar/th_JordanGuitar001.jpg?t=1293051202

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Go with Cary's method but mount your template on a piece of scrap and practice your technique before attempting to do the real guitar. Use the hand held router, but not the little one. Turn a 1/2" spiral upcut bit. Of course that demands a router with a 1'2" collet. You can use the router for the entire cut but do the depth a quarter inch at a time and make several passes increasing your depth with each pass. If a big bit catches the end grain with too deep a bite the bit can run. Shallow passes are safe. If you attempt this with too big a space in the template the router will become unstable. If so, add a bigger base to the router to safely span your template. Practice, practice practice.
faust

[Larry Fox]

Check out youtube as there are tons of videos on this sort of thing. There is also Musical Instrument Maker's forum (dub dub dub dot mimf dot com). There is also something of a pictorial essay on the building of a strat-style guitar on Ron Kirn's site. There is also the Tele forum that has tons of info. Do a search here on SMC for Mark Crenshaw as he seems to be the resident master.

[Steve H Graham]

I got the pocket routed.

I decided to try getting rid of the waste, using a bushing. And I used the Dewalt 611. I had some reason for using the little router instead of the bigger one, but I can't remember what it was. I was probably worried about maneuvering around in the setup, with the clamps and stuff in the way.

I made three strips of 3/4" MDF with jointed edges. Actually, I made four, but I only needed three for this. One was exactly 3" wide (the pocket width I wanted, to make room for a repair inlay), and the others were about 3.5" wide. I used the table saw make a perfectly centered groove at one end of the 3"-wide strip (cutting, then flipping and cutting again, so I would have a 1/8"+ groove centered on the strip). I used this to help me center one end of the strip over the guitar's center joint. The other end, I marked as carefully as possible with a pencil. I could not groove it, because the router bearing would hit the groove and jerk.

I held the strip in place and used it as a stop block to situate one of the other strips beside it (carpet tape on the bottom). Then I put carpet tape on the center strip and put it back down. Then I placed the third strip on the other side of the center strip. This gave me three strips with a U-shaped pocket between them. I anchored the guitar down and added a couple of clamps to make the jury-rigged "template" sit still, and I started using the bushing.

The bushing was very helpful. Sort of like training wheels. It got rid of a lot of the waste and helped me get used to the router. Then I took off the bushing and relied on the bearing. It worked well, but I had a repetitive problem that caused me to nick one end of the pocket. I finally figured out how to stop doing that. By that time, the pocket was about 3/32" deeper than I wanted, but it looked great. The "template" had sharp corners, but the router turned them into perfect 1/4" radii.

I measured the depth at about .704", and I grabbed a piece of face-jointed walnut scrap, and it happened to be about .740". That was nice. I ripped a 3" wide portion for the pocket. The first time I ripped it, it was just barely loose. I knocked the table saw fence over a miniscule amount, and the next try was perfect. I was amazed.

Now I'm trying to set the table router up to make 1/4" radii on the 3" insert. Once that's done, I can chamfer the bottom edges and see if I can cram it into the pocket. If it works, I'll glue it up, and then in a day or two, I'll sand it flush and rout out a pocket in the correct size. The fourth MDF strip is for that purpose. It's 2.25" wide. I plan to angle the outer strips in slightly so I get a pocket tapered at about 1.5°, as it should be. If I can manage to rout it out without tearing the guitar up, I'll be ready for pickup routs.

The inlay should look very nice. It may actually improve the appearance of the instrument. In any event, I think it will work.

NOW HOW DO I GET THE CARPET TAPE RESIDUE OFF THE WOOD?

[Cary Falk]

NOW HOW DO I GET THE CARPET TAPE RESIDUE OFF THE WOOD?
Try mineral spirits or laquer thinner.

[Steve H Graham]

The thing that scared me was that if I used a solvent, it might turn the carpet stuff into a bizarre varnish that would sink into the wood and make it impossible to finish.

[scott spencer]

Goo Gone works great on tape residue.

[John Coloccia]

Instead of carpet tape, use Woodcraft's turners tape next time and you'll have no residue.

re: neck pockets
For a tight neck pocket, take the neck in question, align it to the guitar and clamp it in place. Take two straight boards and clamp them around the neck tenon. Clamp the boards to the body. I usually have a little double sided tape under the boards for added security so things don't slip as I'm clamping them down. Take a stop block and tape or clamp (usually tape) it to the body at end of the guitar neck. It doesn't have to fit perfectly between the boards. It just needs to be big enough so that the router bearing can't go into the gap. Unclamp the neck and you will have a perfect neck template for that particular neck. This works for straight tenons, tapered tenons (like on my guitar...the neck taper extends right through the tenon), bolt on necks, set necks, etc.

Put a piece of masking tape on the inside of the template. Make your cuts. Remove the tape and make a cleanup pass. You''ll end up with a perfectly tight neck joint suitable for whatever attachment method you prefer. Some luthier has a tutorial on this technique. If I can scrounge it up, I'll post it here as it's easier to visualize with pictures.

[Steve H Graham]

Thanks for the advice, John. I don't have a neck yet. I was planning to do the routing first and hold off on the neck until I was sure the guitar was going to work out! Maybe I should rout the pocket out now, slightly undersized, and then get the neck and finish it your way. I just hate to buy a neck when I'm always one slip away from trashing this thing. Maybe that's stupid, and I should go ahead and place my Warmoth order.

RE Woodcraft, the closest one to me is apparently going out of business, and it's like 40 miles away! Woodcraft sent me an email asking if I was interested in buying the franchise, so the place must be going down the tubes.

[Tom Lee]

Stewart MacDonald has a lot of great free information http://www.stewmac.com/

[Larry Fox]

Steve - you seem to be really concerned about your ability to do the routing on this guitar. It is definitely a pretty piece of wood you are working with and I can't say that I blame you. Have you given any thought to doing a dry run on something other than what you are hoping will be your final piece? I am embarking on the same type of project but am starting with the neck first. I have a bunch of quarter-sawn rock maple that will continue it's journey through this world in the shape of guitar necks. However, it is all still safe and sound in the lumber rack and I am already two poplar test necks deep into working out my jigging and work sequencing and expect a few more to end up on the firewood pile before I get it. Point being - poplar is a LOT cheaper to practice on than your "good" wood.

[Brent Gamble]

I'll echo the comment about test runs in scrap wood. On my first build I glued up some pine 2x6 and milled and routed it alongside the "good" stuff. When I made a mistake in the pine, I'd just plug it and re-do it until I got it right. Saved me no end of aggravation. Stewart McDonald has also been suggested above. They have some online tutorials and are also a good source for precision templates, if you're not into making your own. You can get a lot of differing opinions, but I think the neck to body fit is pretty important. If I'm buying a neck, I wait until I have the neck in my hands before I rout the neck pocket. YMMV.

[Steve H Graham]

The reason I didn't use something cheap like pine is that I was afraid I might accidentally do a good job the first time around, and then I'd have a worthless pine Telecaster body, when I could have had something worth keeping. And a pine body wouldn't teach me anything about joining pieces to make a bookmatched instrument. Although now that I think about it, I suppose I could have made a bookmatched pine guitar. That didn't occur to me before. Anyway, I figured I'd take a shot with walnut, and if it worked out, I'd have a nice instrument, and if not, I'm out fifty or a hundred bucks for an excellent learning experience. Maybe that wasn't the smartest move, but I'm having fun.

I'm not as uptight as I seem about destroying the wood. There's plenty of nice walnut down at the lumber store. I didn't think this piece was all that great until I got it assembled into a body; it surprised me. It's not like I saw the wood in the store and fell in love and decided I would die if I couldn't have a guitar made from it. There is probably something nicer at the store right now.

I don't like the idea of marrying myself to things I make. I've found that one of the best things for an artist or craftsman is to lose something he made and to have to make it all over again.

Now that the body is assembled, it's easy to put together scrap setups to test the smaller routs, and I'm doing that.

[Larry Fox]

The reason I didn't use something cheap like pine is that I was afraid I might accidentally do a good job the first time around, and then I'd have a worthless pine Telecaster body, when I could have had something worth keeping.

Certainly not trying to discourage your approach Steve but given the complexity of what you are trying to do this seems unlikely. Simplifying to be sure, but there are really only a hand-full of ways that it can go right and about a billion ways it can go wrong - the odds are not in your favor. This also assumes that you are only planning to make 1 tele. If you plan to make more than 1 you will need it to go right each and every time. However, if you take the time to work out your jigging and work sequence you can approach subsequent ones with the confidence that you will (should) be at least as satisfied with the current one as you were with the previous one. Different strokes but I am a big fan of accuracy and repeataility. Do you take this same appproach when working out a finish schedule or technique?


And a pine body wouldn't teach me anything about joining pieces to make a bookmatched instrument. Although now that I think about it, I suppose I could have made a bookmatched pine guitar. That didn't occur to me before. Anyway, I figured I'd take a shot with walnut, and if it worked out, I'd have a nice instrument, and if not, I'm out fifty or a hundred bucks for an excellent learning experience.

At that price those trials get expensive. :)


Maybe that wasn't the smartest move, but I'm having fun.

That all that really counts. There are enough opportunities in life to be sad and so few to have fun.


Now that the body is assembled, it's easy to put together scrap setups to test the smaller routs, and I'm doing that.

Nice - as I said I am following this thread closely as I am really interested in the process and the result.