Who has a big Wenzloff hand saw? Rip?

[David Weaver]

There was a post on another forum recently where Mike W showed off some of his wares.

Specifically, a huge rip saw in 4 ppi. I have a lot of interest in a saw like this because I haven't had any luck finding anything (that is old and cheap, but good) like it, especially not in a disston #12/#7 pattern saw.

Before I just go to Mike and dump the cake on it, though, I would like to know something about feel from the folks who might have one of mike's saws and some vintage saws.
Does it have a similar feel to the premium disston saws of the #12/#7 (ok, 7 may not be considered premium, but the good ones have a nice feel) types.

If you have either of those in a pattern and a wenzloff disston-style rip saw in the same pattern, how do they compare in feel. Do they have that sweet feel of a saw that really rings?

Now that I don't have a TS, I'm lacking a little in saws for 8/4 material. I have a 26" 4 1/2 rip D8 thumbhole, but even a little bit more coarse would be nice. Maybe a better idea to find an old 7 with a full plate and get teeth punched in it at 4? Better on the pocket book at least, I'm sure.

Any thoughts?

Mike, if you have comments on the feel yourself, by all means...

[Jonathan McCullough]

I have an extra-long crosscut logging-type saw. It's about 42-46 inches long, guessing about just shy of 1/8-inch thick, the plate is about 5 to 8 inches wide (toe is shorter) and has an extra handle on the other end in case you can sucker someone into some two-man logging nostalgia. Although it's a crosscut saw with what I think is called an "American" tooth pattern, it's coarse enough (2 -3 TPI) to zip through rip cuts in 8/4 stock too. With wax and a lot of work it'll cut through a 20-inch maple trunk. Haven't sharpened it yet but it doesn't require any electricity, it's less temperamental than a two-cycle engine, and you know, it works. You see them at flea market sometimes because nobody wants to use one, what with the availability of chain saws. I got mine for ten bucks and I rather like it.

[David Weaver]

Jonathan - those are all over the place out here. Until I saw dick proenneke's video on youtube, I never thought anyone actually used them for much other than torturing kids! My dad used to be forced to use one of those when he was a kid, until they found a beat up chainsaw for cheap. His experience with hand saws makes him pretty fond of any chainsaw, even the old geared bruisers. I know they didn't know how to sharpen hand tools where he grew up, either. Their method was that there were 9 kids, and if something didn't work that well, you just put them all on it and let them wear themselves out rather than learning how to do it (kid labor was free, anyway).

They are above and beyond what I'm after, though, and way too much rake on the teeth and plate thickness. I can use a 28" rip saw on the bench comfortably, but that's probably about the limit.

[Chris Vandiver]

David,
You should contact Marv Werner. He may still have some large 4 ppi premium rip saws.

[David Weaver]

I just popped off an email to daryl weir. If he doesn't have anything, I'll bug marv.

If nobody who uses their saws regularly has any objections to Mike's saws comparing them to something like a #12, and nobody will cough up something good, then I'll just spend the money and get what I want.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Dave,

I had Mike build me his interpretation of a #16 a couple years back (this is one that Marv did the wheat carving on, also displayed on a few forums). The #16 is my favorite handsaw and Mike's version is true to form. I like the "let-in" handle style of the #16. The only difference is Mike's saw has a full saw plate and all the #16's I've bought have been sharpened a number of times, except one very short panel saw that is virtually unused and is of collector status.

With any saw maker, I would communicate exactly what saws you like and they should be able to duplicate.

T.Z.

[Chris Vandiver]

I have a 5 1/2ppi Disston #12(28 inch length) from Daryl, that rips through 8/4 stock without much of a problem. Marv does an awfully good saw as well. You should be able to find a Disston #12, #16 or even a #7 that fits the bill. Plus there are the "Etch" saws like Keen Kutter that might turn up. I can't imagine that any modern day hand saw can compete with those saws(if they're in good condition).

[David Weaver]

I also have a full plate #12 that is 5 1/2. I don't know if 12s were ever much more coarse than that, I haven't seen any.

The 4 1/2 D8 will cut faster than it does in thick stuff, by a noticeable amount, and also in resawing small boards, it's much faster and you can feel the bite of the teeth better while you're sawing. It's just a bit short at 26" and not totally straight at the tooth line, and i'm sure its speed is due not to anything about a d8 that's better than a 12, but due to its significantly coarser tooth profile.

I would love to swap it out for a slightly coarser yet saw that feels the way a full plate #12 feels.

I know that's picky, but that's why I asked. If I were lucky enough to find another full plate and long #12 cheap, it would take a lot of files to cut 4ppi teeth into it, and it would take hours and hours. Maybe it would be worth the effort, since I would have some control over giving it a little bit of breasting, and putting some finer starting teeth on it.

I am not much of a collector. I have found mike's backsaws (well, parts...the results of building kits) to perform every bit as well or better than the older backsaws I have, be plenty hard (and much more consistent), etc, but a long hand saw like a #12 has a little bit more voodoo in what makes it feel the way it does. At the same time, there are good #7s and old split nut spear and jackson hand saws that have that feel and that nice tote position (if you favor that kind of thing), so I don't feel the need to spend money on a new saw or a 12 just to spend money. It's the voodoo I want, and in a tooth profile that's not too common.

[Chris Vandiver]

Marv had two vintage rip saws made by a San Francisco saw company that were 28"-30" long. I think one was a 3 or 4ppi. These were full width, straight back saws along the lines of a #7 or #12. Looked like really nice saws. He may still have them. They were realitively inexpensive, as well. I'm pretty sure they had the voodoo!

[David Weaver]

Thanks, Chris.

I'll go bug him on another board. I haven't seen him post on here lately.

[Marv Werner]

Hi David,

I sent you a PM.

Thanks Chris for thinking of me.

[Peter Evans]

I also have a full plate #12 that is 5 1/2. I don't know if 12s were ever much more coarse than that, I haven't seen any.

I have a #12 with 3 1/2 ppi teeth (the 3 1/2 is stamped on the heel, so factory job), so coarse saws are our there - and this is in Australia where #12 are very rare (D8s everywhere). Works well ripping 2" stuff. Not quite full size, but close.

[David Weaver]

That'd be a really nice saw to have - really nice. I don't think the odds of me finding one around here are too good! (but if I did, i'd actually be willing to pay instead of being cheap, like I usually am)

[Joel Goodman]

This might be ancient history by now but Sandy Moss has a 4 1/2 pt Richardson that's 28". Here's the link:
http://www.sydnassloot.com/s17.htm

[David Weaver]

Thanks for the heads up, Joel - I do have two saws in that coarseness at this point. That saw looks like it might be 4 1/2 points per inch rather than teeth per inch (which is better / more coarse, anyway). I have a D8 at that coarseness and forgot that I have a bakewell saw to refurb that goes around that coarse at the back and is 28". I'm still on the lookout for something over the top, though, like a 4 point saw, which is a fair bit more coarse.

That is a *fine* looking saw, though. I've always been pleased with what I've gotten from Sandy, too.