Confused by "wipe on"

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I am considering using "Behlen Rockhard Table Top finish" or "Waterlox Original Sealer Finish" to finish some side tables and a coat rack (which I expect to see much abuse).

I saw this post, which discusses using these as a wipe on varnish

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?118157

The post indicates that I can mix these with one part finish to two parts Mineral Spirits and then simply wipe it on with a cloth.

This is appealing to me because then my 5 year old can help me with little difficulty. She has helped while applying some finishes and a brush, but, she is slow and a bit sloppy so I must then perform some on the spot touch-up (much to be said about quality time and hooking them early.... she is so proud of the things that we have done).

Questions:

(*) If I use Behlen Rockhard Table Top finish, can I still use Mineral Spirits, or am I better off using "Rockhard Table Top Varnish Reducer".

(*) Any reason I should use one or the other? I assume that they should work about the same.

(*) Can I build up all of the coats using this method, or, should I only do this with the last coats (or first coats)? I understand that I do this about three times to obtain a single coat.

[Scott Holmes]

Waterlox Sealer is already thinned to wipe-on consistancy. Waterlox Original is not.

Behlen's Rock Hard Table Top and Waterlox Original are both phenolic resin varnishes. Behlen's is made from linseed oil, Waterlox is made from Tung oil.

Tung oil's only real claim to fame is that when tung oil is used to made varnish, (instead of linseed oil or soya oil), the varnish produced is better at waterproofing and water vapor proofing than the linseed or soya oil based varnishes.

Waterlox thins fine with mineral spirits for some reason with the Behlen's I find it's better to use their thinner.

Best practice for wipe-on is to wipe it on like the kid at Denny's wipes the table just before you sit down. VERY light, very THIN coat. Repeat when it is dry to the touch. Waterlox will take an hour or more; Behlen's 30-45 minutes. 3 coats per night let dry overnight. 3-4 wipe on coats is about the same build as 1 brush on or spray on coat.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Thanks Scott, very helpful as always

[Phil Thien]

When my oldest was about six she wanted to help paint a chest I made for her. I had her put some goggles on and we got to work. As she drew the brush over the edge of the cabinet the bristles flicked right at her face and there was significant paint splatter all over the goggles.

My point is, don't forget the goggles.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I appreciate the reminder. I purchased three sets of kids eye protection. Two are the surround the face goggles and one set is more like glasses. She helps me do certain things in a very controlled way; sawing by hand, and to some extent, even the drill press. Both require a very high degree of help and supervision, but, she does them. She is better with the screw driver.

The more dangerous things such as the table saw and router require a healthy distance.

Did I mention that I also have hearing protection for her?

I will admit that it had not occurred to me to use goggles while painting...

I am hoping that this wiping thing works out so that she can take a more active part in a "safe" way.

[Howard Acheson]

Wipe-on is a finish application process that is quite different from brushing. Done correctly it eliminates any brush marks and drips and runs. Here is the process:
A friend of mine who was an early advocate, put it together years ago and it has worked well for many.

QUOTE

There are a number of suggested application regimens that are totally subjective. The number of coats in a given day, the % of cut on various coats, which coat to sand after, when to use the blade and a whole host of other practices are all minor differences between finishers. There are some things that I consider sacred when applying a wipe-on finish.

First, you can use any full strength oil based clear finish. Polyurethane varnish or non-poly varnish is fine.

If you are making your own wipe-on the mix is scientific - thin. I suggest 50/50 with mineral spirits because it is easier to type than any other ratio and easy to remember. Some finish formulators have jumped on the bandwagon and you can now get "wipe on" finish pre-mixed. If you use a pre-mixed, thinning is generally not necessary. But making your own is cheaper and you know what's in it.

The number of coats in a given day is not important. Important is to apply a wet coat with an applicator and merely get it on. Think of a 16 year old kid working as a busboy at Denny's you have sent over to wipe off a table. Sort of rub/swirl the the material on like you would if you were applying a paste wax. Don't attempt any straight strokes. The applicator should be wet but not soaked. The applicator can be a non-embossed paper towel shop towel, half a T-shirt sleeve or that one sock left after a load of washing. Once applied,leave it alone. The surface should not be glossy or wet looking and, if applied correctly, there should be no "brush stroke" type marks. If you have missed a spot, ignore it - you will get it on the next coat. If you try and fix a missed spot you will leave a mark in the finish.

Timing for a second coat involves the pinkie test. Touch the surface with your pinkie. If nothing comes off you are ready for another coat. If was tacky 5 minutes ago but not now, apply your next coat just as you applied the previous coat. Remember, you are wet wiping, not flooding. After applying the second coat, let it fully dry for 48 hours. Using 320 paper and a sanding block lightly sand the surface flat. Now, begin applying more coats. Do not sand between coats unless you have allowed more than 24 hours to elapse since the prior coat. The number of coats is not critical - there is no critical or right number to apply. For those who need a rule, four more coats on non-critical surfaces or six more coats on surfaces that will get abraded seems to work.

After your last coat has dried at least over night you will have boogers in the surface. You should not have marks in the surface because you ignored application flaws. You may have dust, lint and, if you live in Texas, bug legs. Use a utility knife blade at this point. Hold it between your thumb and forefinger, near the vertical, and gently scrape the surface. Gentle is the important word - no harder than you would scrape your face. If you start scraping aggressively you will leave small cut marks in the surface. After you have scraped to the baby butt stage gently abrade the surface with 320 dry paper or a gray ScotchBrite. Clean off the surface. Now, leave the area for two hours and change your clothes. Apply your last coat with a bit more care than the previous coats and walk away.

An anal person is going to have a tough time with this process. Missed spots have to be ignored. Wet wipe, don't flood. Scraping to babies butt smooth means scraping no harder than scraping a babies butt. Ignoring any of these will leave marks that are tough to get out. Getting these marks out requires some aggressive sanding to flatten out the surface and starting over.

Jim Kull

END QUOTE

Finally, It works better to use a gloss varnish for all coats except the last. The flatteners in semi-gloss and satin tend to rapidly fall out of suspension when the finish is highly thinned. If you want a non-gloss finish, use it only on the final coat or two and be sure to stir the material frequently or you will end up with cloudy streaks.

As with any new finish or finishing process, learn and practice on some scrap material before going to your project. No tears.