Bring me up to speed

[Ken Hill]

Ok, first things first. They cut and loaded the last logs here yesterday and today was the last day of their clean up. Ive been cutting so much wood it isnt even funny. I wore out the bar on my 290...the nose is just shot as ive been in tops limbing almost non stop for over a month. Now the big clean up begins.....so if anyone out there wants to come join my free work out school just hollar! You will be lifting, pulling and dragging your way into shape!

Anyway, once I get these guys out of here tomorrow, I intend to dive into a bunch of bowls I have roughed out and need to get the scoop on finishes. Not really so much how to apply them but what works well for utility bowls etc. Ive been using Laquer and Tung Oil for most of the ones ive completed however I want to narrow down what the accepted finishes are for these rascals.

From what ive read by searching, it appears walnut oil is used alot.

Thanks for any suggestions and tips in advance, and remember, eat what you want on Christmas Day, you can come work it off here!:D

[allen thunem]

so what does it pay:)

[Al Wasser]

A chain saw bar should last almost forever. Sounds like you have either had the chain too tight and/or ran it lean on oil.

As far as a finish, there is no "standard". If the bowl will get used for liquids I will use walnut oil but if the bowl is more for dry stuff like pretzels, M&M's, etc then I usually use antique oil. Try some different finishes to see what you like. You probably have several finishes around the shop.

[Ken Hill]

Allen, you cant put a price on your health haha!

Al, I tend to use my saw as much as a commercial cutter,maybe more so. This bar is 8 years old and I do flip it so it wears evenly, but these tops have been horrible. You can only do so much to prevent the bar from getting pinched when you are working with tops that have been fallen together and dont want to come apart.The nose has paid the price im afraid. I will pick up a new one tomorrow and I will be back in business. I also run my oiler open quite a bit, so no issues with insufficient oil, and I check it every time I fuel up to make sure she sends a nice splatering of oil. I could use my 660 but thats over kill for limbing and a bit of handfull when you are up to your neck in a snag.

[Fred Perreault]

Al, I have seen (owned) many chain saws, and seen the bars develop low spots and wear out the track. There are many qualities of bars for the saw. It is possible to have a bar tuned up, if your dealer does that sort of thing....... the sprocket can be replaced, and the bar rails can be jointed or trued up to be near new. A solid bar is better for that than a laminated bar. Especially when bucking near the powerhead end a lot, there is a lot of friction, no matter the amount of oil. And of course, as the chain dulls, the operator presses down just a wee bit harder thereby causing the top of the bar rails to chafe all the more. I occasionally file off the rolled-over (mushroomed) outer edge of the rails of the bar, flip the bar at every chain swap, and use plenty of oil, but I have never managed to avoid the inevitable wear associated with high speed, metal to metal contact. I also try to keep the oil pump operating at max output.

[Nathan Hawkes]

I have to respectfully disagree with the statement about bars lasting a long time or forever. They should last a very long time if maintained correctly, and if they are quality to begin with. Chainsaw bars have a widely varied quality scale. Bars with replaceable noses tips are almost always more expensive, and they are worth it. On one of my bars, I've gone through three noses, and probably ten chains in three or four years. I should mention that every chain was taken to the absolute minimum allowable cutter length before trashing. I mill lumber with a large saw. The bar still has life, but it will need to be ditched probably next year sometime. I'll likely replace the nose again before the bar is really gone. I have two other bars that were "quality" when purchased, used more frequently but much, much less severely. Both of them showed excessive wear; most unsatisfactory. I have been very satisfied with the oregon power match bars-very good wear. I flip my bars every time I take a chain off to sharpen it. (I use a grinder, hardly ever file by hand any more). I too file the bar, and keep my oil pump operating at an appropriate level depending on the length of the bar. I also grease the nose of the bar frequently. The more expensive oregon power match bars have worn very well, and the less expensive "on sale" bars wore terribly. I wont buy any bars that dont have replaceable noses, and I may next buy one of the cannon, or woodsman pro bars (twice as much as any other bar) next.

Edit: just FYI, the stihl ES bars are worth the price difference over the E series bars, at least in my personal opinion.

[Ken Hill]

Well, ive been cutting firewood and trees since I was old enough to start the saw which was around 14, im 40 now. We ran a commercial firewood operation until I was almost 20 so cutting isnt a new deal, nor is saw service etc. This is the first time however I have had the pleasure of following loggers and IMO its far more dangerous then actually felling trees. At some spots, there may be 10 trees felled with their tops all but on top of each other. They get wedged together, pushed together, mixed with trees that are knocked down when the larger tree was felled etc. It isnt a nice, cut down one tree here one there deal, it reminds me of the aftermath of a tornado or a bomb blast in all honesty. I had a 12 inch tree yesterday come out of a top that would have wiped me out if I had been standing in its way, the force it was under was impressive and when I tugged at the main stem after cutting it free it released the unseen tree. Im being as careful as one can be ofcourse, but sometimes there isnt a way around the danger. Some of these pieces are well over 26 inches in diameter so its not small limb work, and lengths have ranged from 6 ft. to full 80 footers that did not make the grade for lumber. I think the small finger sized limbs that keep busting me in the face hurt the most (yes I wear my helmet and face shield but they still find a way!

All this adds up to serious abuse on the saw. Its a nasty piece of work that can find you going after a second saw and the tractor if things shift and you find your saw hung up. I am surprised I havent bent a bar thus far. I am also quite sure I will be working in a new clutch and brake when this is all over, you can barely walk 2 steps without sliding or falling so the brake is on when im not cutting or merely taking a step for the next cut. Add to this the cuts made for a bowl blank here and there as I run across figured wood and my Stihl isnt getting a break period! That old bar saw alot of hinge (plunge) cuts as well the past few months as all cuts made are required to be of that nature while they are on site. Ive gone through 25 gallons of fuel for the saws since November and thats with just me cutting and a week down time when I threw my back out. It is a daybreak to dark deal as I am on self imposed schedule so I can get things prepped and food plots planted come spring and before I have to go back to work so being danty just isnt in the cards. I will grab some pictures when I return from the saw shop today, for those that have been here it should be an impressive look at the amount of work done since they were last here to gather wood for turning.

I am also going to pick up some Walnut oil at the local mill (Rockwell dealer) as that sounds like what I am after for many of these bowls that will see use and not be just eye candy or dry food bowls.

[Dale Bright]

Ken,

Walnut oil is my favorite finish for bowls. I use the oil alone or with bee's wax. Both are food safe as soon as applied and easily renewable by the end user.

Is the mill you are speaking of, McFarland's? If they do not have what you need, I get some from Giant, in brown and white can, that works very well. I do not remember the brand name. I put it into a plastic squeeze bottle.

This past weekend I made a new patch of walnut oil wax. It is 1/3 natural color bee's wax and 2/3 walnut oil. Put it into a glass container and microwave until the wax is completely melted and stir. When it cools, you have the wax mix, that is best applied on the lathe so the friction will melt it into the wood. This leaves a very soft lustre to the bowl that also has a very soft feel to it.

Dale

[Ken Hill]

Dale, yes sir thats the place. Where is the Giant down there, we do not have one up here.

[Dale Bright]

Ken,

The one I go to is in Purcellville but they are most every where in Northern VA. I do not see any listed for Winchester or Charlestown.

Dale

[Ken Hill]

Ok thanks Dale!

Well, couldnt walk out of my saw shop without adding a new saw to the stable. I picked up a MS 250 for small work

http://kenhill.smugmug.com/Other/Private-Gallery-2/CMR3283/1133699868_RMmZa-L.jpg

The landing area is now going to be the firewood processing area now that the loader and skidder are gone

http://kenhill.smugmug.com/Other/Private-Gallery-2/CMR3284/1133699902_Npcog-L.jpg

This was the area I had been storing the crotch wood for cutting into turning blanks

http://kenhill.smugmug.com/Other/Private-Gallery-2/CMR3285/1133699947_ELEHc-L.jpg

One Red Oak top and a Hickory set aside for a few years down the road

http://kenhill.smugmug.com/Other/Private-Gallery-2/CMR3286/1133699993_FK96e-L.jpg

[Ken Hill]

Here are a few from around the place now. Ive been working the past 2 days opening up the old roadway/trail

http://kenhill.smugmug.com/Other/Private-Gallery-2/CMR3288/1133700046_MeUCd-L.jpg

Plenty of firewood to get up

http://kenhill.smugmug.com/Other/Private-Gallery-2/CMR3290/1133700132_AEawU-L.jpg

The lower portion is clear now, I just finished opening it up

http://kenhill.smugmug.com/Other/Private-Gallery-2/CMR3291/1133700172_KZf7n-L.jpg

A few new roadways will help me now

http://kenhill.smugmug.com/Other/Private-Gallery-2/CMR3287/1133700012_QvNYj-L-1.jpg

http://kenhill.smugmug.com/Other/Private-Gallery-2/CMR3289/1133700092_Kbq9g-L-1.jpg

http://kenhill.smugmug.com/Other/Private-Gallery-2/CMR3292/1133700213_kzb3f-L.jpg

[Ken Hill]

Looking down the main road down the ridge top

http://kenhill.smugmug.com/Other/Private-Gallery-2/CMR3293/1133700248_khurw-L.jpg

I started stacking what I could get out in log form to save for following years

http://kenhill.smugmug.com/Other/Private-Gallery-2/CMR3294/1133700279_bgvSA-L.jpg

Further down the ridge

http://kenhill.smugmug.com/Other/Private-Gallery-2/CMR3295/1133700316_83Skp-L.jpg

New road cut to access the steepest bottom i have

http://kenhill.smugmug.com/Other/Private-Gallery-2/CMR3296/1133700362_zdY6e-L.jpg

Should be great Deer bedding areas and good Grouse cover

http://kenhill.smugmug.com/Other/Private-Gallery-2/CMR3297/1133700378_P8mez-L.jpg

Way more open in spots

http://kenhill.smugmug.com/Other/Private-Gallery-2/CMR3298/1133700416_d7MfZ-L.jpg

[Ken Hill]

The hard work will be on teh hillsides with the tops inter twined

http://kenhill.smugmug.com/Other/Private-Gallery-2/CMR3299/1133700452_nssr5-L.jpg

What is cleared is work ive already done

http://kenhill.smugmug.com/Other/Private-Gallery-2/CMR3300/1133700497_hAhsf-L.jpg

I should have enough wood to turn for quite sometime

http://kenhill.smugmug.com/Other/Private-Gallery-2/CMR3301/1133700541_S8NwW-L.jpg

It sure is alot of work!

http://kenhill.smugmug.com/Other/Private-Gallery-2/CMR3302/1133700581_whAnq-L.jpg

Firewood ive already cut and hauled out

http://kenhill.smugmug.com/Other/Private-Gallery-2/CMR3304/1133700607_3QdWM-L.jpg


The offer stands till the wood is gone, if you need some come get it. Plenty of wood to fill your shelves for future turnings!

[Fred Perreault]

Ken,
From the pics I can smell the essence of bar and chain oil, 2-cycle exhaust, wood chips and freshly scuffed leafy forest floor. It is a scent to get up early for. It seems that you did a great job, and that there will be bowl blanks for a while. I started using an early brute of a Homelite saw when I was 14 also (I was big for my age then, and way too big for my age now... :), and progressed to XL-12's by the early 60's. My late dad was a big Homelite fan, but I upgraded to Stihls by 1974, and have never looked back. It must be the fact that the European saws are quieter, anti-vibe, serviceable, and reliable.

[Rich Aldrich]

I wish I lived closer to you. Those high stumps will be nice for turning as well.

Sounds like you have a lot of experience with chain saws and probably don't need this info, but here goes. My family is in logging, so I have a lot of experience to draw from. One thing about chain oil is make sure it has tackifier to make it stick to the chain and bar. That is why I use the chainsaw manufacturers oil. I have been told that you can do the same thing to cheaper bar and chain oil by adding engine oil additive like STP. I have never tried it. I only cut for fire wood and turning, so I only average gallons per year. The other thing is to use oil that is heavy enough in the summer and use a lighter oil in the winter.

A few years ago, I destroyed a bar and chain with cheap oil. I dont think it had tackifier. It didnt seem as sticky (like snot) as it should.

[Roger Chandler]

Rich, or Ken, or whomever has an answer to this...........if I wanted to thin regular bar & chain oil from the manufacturer for really cold winter cutting, what would be the proper way to thin it. I was wondering if a little mineral spirits would be the way to go.........I know that you don't want it too thin, so I guess the right viscosity would be important and the tackyfier would still be there to help keep it on the chain.

Do you have a ratio of thinner per gallon?

[Nathan Hawkes]

Rober, I use Canola oil for milling, and for wintertime cutting. Don't laugh; it works!!! It doesn't freeze like vegetable oil, and stays liquid at much, much lower temps than petroleum oil. I've used tens of gallons, no different wear on tips, bars, or noses compared to other saws I have with strictly petroleum oil. The expensive Stihl bio-plus is canola oil based, I believe. I don't use it if the saw is going to sit for a long time, as it does get a little gummy on the bar, which goes away at the first use. I'm not advocating that everyone do it, but I often cut a whole lot in one particular spot. I figure with repeated use over time, I'm basically dumping gallon after gallon of oil in the ground. I'd much rather that oil be bio friendly, even if only for my drinking water. There are many critics of using canola, all discussing the various tackifying agents that are added to increase oil viscosity. I find NO difference between how well the chain is lubricated when I'm using my Husqvarna 394 (oiler on max, 32" bar) when using canola or bar oil. The chain actually stays cleaner with canola oil, and smells a heck of a lot better! I've really punished the saw; milling is about the most abusive you can be to a chain, and the most heavily used bar still has at least another year of heavy use left before the groove will be too shallow. Works for me. My $0.02....

[Roger Chandler]

Very interesting Nate!

[Ken Hill]

I was going to also suggest the veggy/canola oil. Ive used it when we had to cut ice to launch our duck boats! A buddy has a MS 180 that has never seen regular bar oil. The DNR had the ticket book out one morning, but after we stuck our finger in the "Bar Oil" and sucked it off he was convinced it wasnt regular oil!

I use just about any bar oil in the late spring and summer but only Stihl brand oil in the winter. It is a tad more expensive but its just the way ive done it forever. I also usually run 110 octane race fuel that we use in my sons race ATV's. Not because its better per'se, but because we have to use it up or it goes bad. I DO NOT like todays gasolines period and NEVER keep more then a five gallon container on hand, it goes bad terribly fast. You may not notice it in your car, mower or such, but on our race engines we can immediatley tell they arent as crisp even running a normal compression piston. The carbs will gum within a few weeks, I believe due to all the emission additives, and the "winter blends" seem to be the worst.

Fred, I was handed a worn out McCulloch and shown how to use it. I bet the blade was so dull I would have had a hard time cutting butter LOL! By the end of the day, my arms were wore out but I had learned how not to cut parts of me off. My dad came back from Vietnam and went tow ork for Pepco as a linesman, and due to his size he was first to get the call to cut limbs or fell tree's. He was agreat cutter and prided himself on doing a good job and I think some rubbed off on me. The new saw will be what my oldest son learns to cut with and after using it all afternoon, it will be a great starter saw for him and an excellent addition here.

[allen thunem]

so ken i gotta ask what the hell happened ???
hurricane?? or just bored and felt like sawing trees??

[Rich Aldrich]

Roger,

The saw manufacturers sell a winter oil - just a lower viscocity oil - and summer oil. I keep my saw in my shop, along with the jug of oil, so the summer oil is all I use. I keep the gas in the garage.

[Ken Hill]

so ken i gotta ask what the hell happened ???
hurricane?? or just bored and felt like sawing trees??


Time to thin that lot out

[Bernie Weishapl]

I use walnut oil on my utility items and Seal-A-Cell followed by Arm-R-Seal for items such as candy, patato chip, fruit, etc bowls.

[gary beach]

Ken I would be the first to grab my Stihl and help you out, only thing is i don't think 2300 mile road trip this winter would be much fun. However looks like you have a fine stash of condensed wood chips there :) Good luck and try not to throw out the back again! Merry Christmas everyone!

[Ken Hill]

Thanks Gary, its sore but you know how it is...charge!

[Nate Davey]

Some beautiful country up there.

[allen thunem]

Ken I would be the first to grab my Stihl and help you out, only thing is i don't think 2300 mile road trip this winter would be much fun. However looks like you have a fine stash of condensed wood chips there :) Good luck and try not to throw out the back again! Merry Christmas everyone!
hey gary drive to denver i will shsare expenses and dont forget to bring a big truck or trailor

[Dale Bright]

Ken,

Do you have any Walnut in that pile that would yield 16" to 20" bowls? If no Walnut, what is in the pile that might be big enough?

Dale

[Ken Hill]

Not a walnut tree on the property

Oak and or Hickory is the biggest I have, along with some Maple that is the biggest here