Help with WOP Technique

[Nate Davey]

I was wondering if some of you Wipe-on Poly (WOP) black belts would share how you get your mirror like finishes. I'm having a horrible time getting a line free finish. If you could:

1. How fine do you sand your bare wood to?
2. Do you use sanding sealer?
3. If you cut your WOP, what is your ratio?
4. What do you apply your WOP with?
5. How many coats do you apply?
6. Once you've finished layering your WOP, what do you do then, wet sand, buff???

I know you'd all rather be in the shop turning than writing a book on WOP technique but I sure would help me out.

Thanks in advance.

[Steve Schlumpf]

I don't use a sanding sealer but the process that I use effectively does the same thing. I prefer using Minwax Gloss Wipe-On Poly but there are other brands available or you can mix your own.

Application process that I use: Once the form is complete and sanded (usually to 320 grit) I remove it from the lathe and apply the first coat of poly. For this first step I use a 1" sponge brush and try to saturate the wood just like I was using an oil finish. I let it sit for a few minutes and then wipe off any excess. Let that dry for 24 hours and check for coverage. If the poly got sucked into sections of the form (and it will), saturate the form once again, wiping off the excess.

After waiting for 24 hours to let the saturated coat set up, you can then apply the first of many thin coats. I use a paper towel folded up to make a small pad, wipe on a thin coat of poly and let dry for 3 to 5 hours, depending on the temp and humidity. Usually the thin coats dry really fast because they are so thin and should never be thick enough to cause a run. If you miss a spot – try not to go back over as it will lift the existing wet poly. Just make sure to hit the missed spot the next time. The process is more like a French Polish as far as applying the thin coats. I normally apply 2 or 3 coats this way before doing the first light sanding using either a super fine sanding sponge or 600 grit wet/dry sand paper and that is only used to knock off the nubs. I repeat the procedure until I have the level of finish (or gloss) that I want - usually 5 to 7 thin coats but have gone up to 12 coats on occasion.

I find the Minwax Wipe On works great when real fresh but starts to dry up (thicken) as soon as the can is opened. It’s nothing more than regular Poly that has been thinned down so it will flow better and dry faster. When you notice it get thicker (and darker in color) - just add a little mineral spirits (very little makes a huge difference) and you'll be good to go.

After letting the turning dry for a week or longer - I then buff it out. I happen to use the Beall system and use the red and white compounds but there are other buffing systems out there. After buffing, apply Renaissance wax to the piece and depending on size of the turning will either buff the wax smooth or use a soft cloth to polish the turning.

Hope that answer some of your questions.

[Tony De Masi]

Steve saved me a lot of typing here as I use the exact same procedure as he does. Works quite well if you give it the patience it deserves.

[Steve Schlumpf]

I knew I should have waited longer...... ;) :D

[Jim Burr]

Look at all the time I saved!!! The only difference is I sand to 600...because Steve is better at sanding than I am so I have to work harder;):D!!

[John Keeton]

I use BLO on a lot of my turnings, so my final sanding is with 400 wet sanded with BLO. The rest of the process is that same as Steve set out.

[Fred Belknap]

I sometimes use BLO as a first coat, put it on with the lathe running. I put on WOP using a half sheet of shop towel folded. I put on as many coats as I think I need to get the effect I want. I have started using Danish oil because it dries faster than BLO. I lightly sand between coats with 2000 grit. I buff just like Steve except I use carnauba wax.

[Mike Willeson]

I use BLO on a lot of my turnings, so my final sanding is with 400 wet sanded with BLO. The rest of the process is that same as Steve set out.

John,

This wet sanding with BLO - can I assume that is off the lathe? Can you describe your process?

[Lee Koepke]

Mike, I have wet sanded on the lathe.

It doesnt make that much of a mess. I just wet the paper and sand as usual. You can put a rag or saran wrap on the ways to avoid the mess.

[John Keeton]

John,

This wet sanding with BLO - can I assume that is off the lathe? Can you describe your process?Mike, I sand on the lathe at the lowest speed. I do not power sand any of the art pieces. Soak the turning with BLO, and sand with the 400 grit. There is no mess at all. I take a paper shop towel with a little BLO, and wipe off the slurry. Then resand - do this a couple of times and it will be smooth as silk - so long as you have done a good job with sanding up thru 320 before the wet sanding.

[Baxter Smith]

Thanks for the info on the WOP Steve. Just bought my first ever can of the stuff last week. Could have used this post 4 or 5 days ago.:) I put it on a spalted holly bowl and spalted maple hollow form. Didn't saturate it enough times with the first and second coat, then put it on again with a foam brush for the third and ended up with runs and had to sand because I didn't wipe enough off. Coat 4 was more or less a repeat of coat 3.:eek: After that I went to the paper towel application and am up to about 5 thin coats. I didn't use the BLO for either. Would be interesting to see the difference it might have made.

[Nate Davey]

Thanks to Steve and John for taking the time to write this thorough reply. You have been immeasurably helpful.

[John Keeton]

Baxter, I think the only difference the BLO makes is darken the wood a little more than perhaps just the WOP does. However, it does seem to really help with the wet sanding. I am sure other oils, including mineral oil, would work. I can apply the WOP shortly after the BLO without any effect. In fact, at times, I have mixed in a little BLO to the WOP to smooth it out a little when it had some age on it.

[Jim Sebring]

I pretty much do the same as Steve and several others have described. I usually apply 7 or 8 coats. I've discovered the satin Minwax WOP is lighter colored than the gloss. I decant a new can into Harbor Freight 8 oz. plastic squeeze bottles. I squeeze the bottle after each application to remove the air. I also use folded 1/4 sheets of Viva paper towel for application. That leaves a pad about 2 inches square. Viva is one of the brands favored by pen turners because it is lintless and has no embossed pattern. There are no 'tracks' left behind, a key factor when applying CA as a finish.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I go 2 coats, then let the finish dry a few days. Sand back down to almost wood, and then repeat. I guess it's like a sealer coat.
I usually sand to 400 before the first coat, and use a wet rag to wipe off the dust and raise the nap, then sand again. Then I use DNA to get the dust off.

[Prashun Patel]

The more you thin it, the more coats you have to put on, but the less chance of lines, and the less chance of it building up and looking plasticky. It's 'easy' to make a built up shiny coating with poly. However, IMHO, the best looking finishes - especially on turnings are thin ones that are polished to the right sheen. This is more a function of your buffing than the type of finish you use.

[John Keeton]

I go 2 coats, then let the finish dry a few days. Sand back down to almost wood, and then repeat. I guess it's like a sealer coat.
I usually sand to 400 before the first coat, and use a wet rag to wipe off the dust and raise the nap, then sand again. Then I use DNA to get the dust off.Kyle, my experience with DNA is that it will raise the grain slightly, and for that reason if I use something to take off dust, it is always MS.

[Matt Newton]

Do you have to let the BLO dry before applying WOP?

[John Keeton]

Do you have to let the BLO dry before applying WOP?No, Matt, you don't - though it seems to slow down the drying of the first coat of WOP a little. I still get a good dry surface within 24-48 hours depending on the temp and humidity. The WOP actually contains oil, so you are just making it a "longer" (more oil) finish vs. a "short" (less oil) finish.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Kyle, my experience with DNA is that it will raise the grain slightly, and for that reason if I use something to take off dust, it is always MS.

DNA raises grain, but, that's what I want to happen. Gets rid of that "fuzz". I like the DNA since it evaporates pretty quick, and I can see where I need to sand. I guess it really does not matter what you use.:) Just use something to get rid of the dust. I was also thinking that MS leaves a residue, but since it's the carrier of lots of finishes, it should not affect anything. Smells worse than DNA too.

[wes murphy]

DNA raises grain, but, that's what I want to happen. Gets rid of that "fuzz". I like the DNA since it evaporates pretty quick, and I can see where I need to sand. I guess it really does not matter what you use.:) Just use something to get rid of the dust. I was also thinking that MS leaves a residue, but since it's the carrier of lots of finishes, it should not affect anything. Smells worse than DNA too.


Naptha will do the same job as DNA, however it doesn't raise the grain and cleans the piece very well.

[steven carter]

Naptha will do the same job as DNA, however it doesn't raise the grain and cleans the piece very well.

I also use Naptha from a big box store, cleans well and evaporates fairly quickly.